Game of Thrones - The Final Season (***SPOILERS***)

[AtariLegend]

4 minutes ago, downzy said:

Anyone else wonder if it was Bran who warged into Drogon to melt the Iron Throne? 

Had that been the case, they wouldn't have been subtle about it.

The Dragons are supposed to be smarter animals in the books. I am surprised though that they never had Bran warg a dragon.

This show was really a great thing for Northern Ireland. I really hope the prequel is a success.

I really still don't understand, why we didn't see Meera again. D/D hating the actress is the only explanation.

Edited May 20, 2019 by AtariLegend

[downzy]

Just now, ZoSoRose said:

I'll always love the show but I'm baffled by how bad they fumbled this season.

 

I honestly thought it was as good as they could have made it with the limit of six episodes.  I found the season still very entertaining, so long as you didn't take things too seriously.  The show has become a victim of sorts to its earlier successes.  Once they decided to finish the story in 13 episodes it became evident this was going to be the bullet point version of Martin's grand narrative.

The issue really for me is that the eight season should have been split into two separate season.  Part of the reason Jon killing Dany doesn't really have the emotional effect it should have is we spend very little time with them together.  Their relationship is kind of pigeon holed into seven episodes, one of which aired a year and a half before the final six.  So we don't have much invested in them (nor does it help that there was little chemistry between the two actors).  

But I would be shocked if the broad strokes aren't taken from Martin's outlines he submitted to D&D when they moved past the books.  I think the grand narrative in the books will be similar, but will provide the level of detail and context that was lacking due to the decision to shorten the final two episodes to 13.  

2 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Had that been the case, they wouldn't have been subtle about it.

You're probably right.  The other issue with Bran wargging into Drogon is that it raises the question as to why he didn't do it earlier.

The concept came to me when at the end Bran suggested he could likely track Drogon down.  

Anyway...

[ZoSoRose]

1 minute ago, downzy said:

Anyone else wonder if it was Bran who warged into Drogon to melt the Iron Throne? 

Probably not but would make a bit more sense than Drogon somehow associating the throne with any kind of status worth melting.  Unless dragons in Westeros are much smarter than I give them credit for.  

Thats too smart for the writers. They should have had Drogon blast Jon. Have his clothes burn and the throne burn in the blast, but him live. Would have made it more belieavable for the people of Kings Landing and the soldiers to think twice about killing him.

Also the nights watch ending makes no sense and is a stupid, convoluted way to get Jon north. Who gives a fuck what Greyworm and the couple dozen Unsullied want, they leave anyways. Theres no point to a Nights Watch. They should have just had Jon volunteer so he could help Tormund resettle his people. Would have been way better.

Also, nobody in that scene really knows Bran. What the fuck was that shit?

And again, dissapointing treatment of the Walkers, warging, memory visiting/time travel, Lord of Light, etc.

I could nitpick a ton, but fuck it. This season was one of the biggest media let downs for me. Despite my qualms with the story and writers, the actors, actresses, artists, composer, and cast + crew. The show will always be special to me, its been a hell of a ride. I am sad its done and hope the books come out someday

[downzy]

Since the show is now done, no need to use spoiler tags.  

Title of thread has been changed to reflect this fact.  

[ZoSoRose]

We should fault them for the episode limits. HBO wanted 10 episode seasons and they refused. I agree we 100% needed more time to see Dany and Jon's relationship. The Walker war should have also been a few episodes of a war of attrition across miles of the country instead of a skirmish over Winterfell. I cant believe what they have done. The show will be do different on re watches. Lots of build up for certain plotlines for this.

[downzy]

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

Thats too smart for the writers. They should have had Drogon blast Jon. Have his clothes burn and the throne burn in the blast, but him live. Would have made it more belieavable for the people of Kings Landing and the soldiers to think twice about killing him.

Also the nights watch ending makes no sense and is a stupid, convoluted way to get Jon north. Who gives a fuck what Greyworm and the couple dozen Unsullied want, they leave anyways. Theres no point to a Nights Watch. They should have just had Jon volunteer so he could help Tormund resettle his people. Would have been way better.

Also, nobody in that scene really knows Bran. What the fuck was that shit?

And again, dissapointing treatment of the Walkers, warging, memory visiting/time travel, Lord of Light, etc.

I could nitpick a ton, but fuck it. This season was one of the biggest media let downs for me. Despite my qualms with the story and writers, the actors, actresses, artists, composer, and cast + crew. The show will always be special to me, its been a hell of a ride. I am sad its done and hope the books come out someday

See, I liked the idea of Jon ending up in the North.  It's what he always wanted and it was nice to see his character end where he began.

I didn't really expect Drogon to burn Jon since he's a Targaryan, and I assumed that dragons don't burn members of this family.  So not that big of a reach for Drogon to spare Jon.  Plus it was nice to see Jon continue to question afterward whether he made the right call.  

To each their own, but I thought the end hit the right notes for the characters we had been following for eight years.  It ended mostly on a positive note (save for the citizens of Kings Landing) and I'm happy for it.  

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, downzy said:

See, I liked the idea of Jon ending up in the North.  It's what he always wanted and it was nice to see his character end where he began.

I didn't really expect Drogon to burn Jon since he's a Targaryan, and I assumed that dragons don't burn members of this family.  So not that big of a reach for Drogon to spare Jon.  Plus it was nice to see Jon continue to question afterward whether he made the right call.  

To each their own, but I thought the end hit the right notes for the characters we had been following for eight years.  It ended mostly on a positive note (save for the citizens of Kings Landing) and I'm happy for it.  

I like the idea of him ending there, they way they got him there was horrible. He should have wanted to. Would have been earned and made sense. He didnt want to be King, but why not help Tormund resettle and lead?  That is where he thrives

[AtariLegend]

I do buy Bran (who has also won our deathpool fyi when I update it) becoming King, but like ZoSo said it makes little sense why they would choose or believe him. I think Bran's story wasn't done very well in the show with the changes.

Also not sure how they explain Bran telling everyone about Jon's parentage, but not warning about Danny. I mean Bran can see the future. Almost makes it look he planned this.

 

[downzy]

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

I like the idea of him ending there, they way they got him there was horrible. He should have wanted to. Would have been earned and made sense. He didnt want to be King, but why not help Tormund resettle and lead?  That is where he thrives

Is it clear that he didn't want to go North?  

I know Sansa apologized for the decision, but I don't believe Jon ever really objected to his "sentence."  Maybe I'm wrong.

Plus it was nice to see Jon greet Ghost since he gave him the cold shoulder in ep. 4.

[AtariLegend]

5 minutes ago, downzy said:

Is it clear that he didn't want to go North?  

I know Sansa apologized for the decision, but I don't believe Jon ever really objected to his "sentence."  Maybe I'm wrong.

Plus it was nice to see Jon greet Ghost since he gave him the cold shoulder in ep. 4.

It looked like he wanted too. Even smiled. Earlier in the season, he even tells Tormund he wishes he was going with him.

However Bran sentencing him to it, makes no sense. Nor does it make any sense why the Dothraki would accept it even if the Unsullied did.

My theory is they didn't want Jon killing Greyworm and ending the show having killed all the black characters.

Edited May 20, 2019 by AtariLegend

[ZoSoRose]

5 minutes ago, downzy said:

Is it clear that he didn't want to go North?  

I know Sansa apologized for the decision, but I don't believe Jon ever really objected to his "sentence."  Maybe I'm wrong.

Plus it was nice to see Jon greet Ghost since he gave him the cold shoulder in ep. 4.

He looked like he wanted to kill himself, and it was still a stupid way of getting him there. He should have just been like "yo, ima go hang out and help my pals up north, I dont wanna be King". Instead, he got punished for being the hero. Who cares about Greyworm. Glad he was the one to kill Dany (who turned into Palpatine real fast), at least. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by ZoSoRose

[downzy]

1 minute ago, AtariLegend said:

Also not sure how they explain Bran telling everyone about Jon's parentage, but not warning about Danny. I mean Bran can see the future. Almost makes it look he planned this.

 

Is this clear in the show?  I thought Bran said his vision of the future are mostly shadows; that he can't see much.  They keep much of his abilities vague in this respect.

I would assume that most of the people who voted for Bran knew he was a stark and were aware, at least in part, of the story that Tyrion told.  Most of the other houses and families had been destroyed, hence I'm not sure how many other viable choices they had.  Jon might have been one had Greyworm not been so opposed.  

I read recently that the first chapter of the first book is told from Bran's perspective.  So GRRM likely ends with Bran on the throne for the sake of symmetry and a call back to how the first book starts.  

Again, I think a lot of issues with this and the last season is the choice to reduce the number of episodes per season and not add a ninth season.  With only so many hours they went with the bullet point version of the show.  If you can get past that decision, it was a fun ride and they did a good job with it all things considered.  

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

It looked like he wanted too. Even smiled. Earlier in the season, he even tells Tormund he wishes he was going with him.

However Bran sentencing him to it, makes no sense. Nor does it make any sense why the Dothraki would accept it even if the Unsullied did.

My theory is they didn't want Jon killing Greyworm and ending the show having killed all the black characters.

I thought Tyrion explained it was a compromise between Bran and Greyworm.  I don't believe it was something Bran "sentenced" per se but was the result of a negotiated compromise to give the Unsullied some form of justice for the death of their queen and to allow Jon to live.  

As for the Dothraki, they haven't had a leader or a character of substance for a couple of seasons.  I think it's pretty much assumed that Greyworm speaks for all of Dany's forces, particularly after she gave him the title of War Commander.  

Not sure how Jon would have killed Greyworm considering Greyworm would have been surrounded by his fellow soldiers.  

[downzy]

5 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

He looked like he wanted to kill himself, and it was still a stupid way of getting him there. He should have just been like "yo, ima go hang out and help my pals up north, I dont wanna be King". Instead, he got punished for being the hero. Who cares about Greyworm. Glad he was the one to kill Dany (who turned into Palpatine real fast), at least. 

I don't know, feels like we were watching different shows.  Read my previous post.  I don't think it was a punishment at all and something Bran knew Jon would probably want anyway.  

As for Dany turning heel, I don't see it like others.  I thought her character was pretty consistent throughout.  It might be a stretch for her to burn down Kings Landing with all its citizens and put that on Cersei for using them as human shields, but her final speech to Jon rang true to me.  It was her line about how others don't get a choice that prompted Jon to take her out.  That didn't feel like a contradiction in her character but something that had been there all along.  

[ZoSoRose]

Just now, downzy said:

I don't know, feels like we were watching different shows.  Read my previous post.  I don't think it was a punishment at all and something Bran knew Jon would probably want anyway.  

As for Dany turning heel, I don't see it like others.  I thought her character was pretty consistent throughout.  It might be a stretch for her to burn down Kings Landing with all its citizens and put that on Cersei for using them as human shields, but her final speech to Jon rang true to me.  It was her line about how others don't get a choice that prompted Jon to take her out.  That didn't feel like a contradiction in her character but something that had been there all along.  

Im glad you are alright with the show, but I just have so many issues. Wish we could all talk about this in person. 

[AtariLegend]

3 minutes ago, downzy said:

As for the Dothraki, they haven't had a leader or a character of substance for a couple of seasons.  I think it's pretty much assumed that Greyworm speaks for all of Dany's forces, particularly after she gave him the title of War Commander.  

There was another named bloodrider of her in the show that they killed off in episode 3. On a phone, so not googling the name. He had no dialogue for a few seasons.

[ZoSoRose]

Ughhh it is frustrating me the more I think about. 

Literally everyone important in Westeros- "Lets have Jon stay"

Greyworm and a handful of foreigners- "No"

Literally everyone important in Westeros- "Sorry, Jon! We tried"

Greyworm- Leaves anyways

Jon- "Why is there a Night's Watch?"

Westeros-

Edited May 20, 2019 by ZoSoRose

[downzy]

Just now, ZoSoRose said:

Ughhh it is frustrating me the more I think about. 

Literally everyone important in Westeros- "Lets have Jon stay"

Greyworm and a handful of foreigners- "No"

Literally everyone important in Westeros- "Sorry, Jon! We tried"

Greyworm- Leaves anyways

Again, i don't get the issue with the way they constructed this outcome.  The Unsullied controlled King's Landing and had imprisoned Jon.  

The North wanted him returned and were willing to wage war over it.  A compromise was agreed to.  This was covered in the discussion between Greyworm and the heads for each region.  

 

[ZoSoRose]

2 minutes ago, downzy said:

Again, i don't get the issue with the way they constructed this outcome.  The Unsullied controlled King's Landing and had imprisoned Jon.  

The North wanted him returned and were willing to wage war over it.  A compromise was agreed to.  This was covered in the discussion between Greyworm and the heads for each region.  

 

But then the Unsullies left, anyways. What are they going to do now without King's Landing? There was zero reason for Jon to have to stay up there. For honor? Who gives a fuck about a few Unsullied that left the continent anyways?

Edited May 20, 2019 by ZoSoRose

[downzy]

Just now, ZoSoRose said:

But then the Unsullies left, anyways. What are they going to do now without King's Landing? There was zero reason for Jon to have to stay up there. For honor? Who gives a fuck about a few Unsullied that left the continent anyways?

The Unsullied left because they got an agreement that they felt gave them justice for Dany.

Jon stayed North because that's what he ultimately wanted, unbeknownst to Greyworm.  

[AtariLegend]

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

But then the Unsullies left, anyways. What are they going to do now without King's Landing? There was zero reason for Jon to have to stay up there. For honor? Who gives a fuck about a few Unsullied that left the continent anyways?

Did you not still get Googly eyed watching Jon pet Ghost for the first time since season 3?

[ZoSoRose]

20 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Did you not still get Googly eyed watching Jon pet Ghost for the first time since season 3?

Things I liked- Atmosphere in the first 20 minutes (time shift after was jarring though, felt like two episodes mashed up), Emilia Clarke and Peter Dinklage's brilliant acting no matter the quality of their script, Arya's ending, the music, JON PETTING GHOST

Dislikes- Most everything else

At least its a happy ending for GOT terms

[MikeD]

series was fantastic... too bad for ending with Daenerys going mad queen like her dad...  in this last episode once he betrayed her -- Jon should have taken her spot and her dragon... and not that "raisin" cousin of his Bran !!!  but all in all good job

[Padme]

Daenerys brought that to herself. She got what she deserved unfortunately. I didn't want Bran to be king. The common sense choice would've been Jon Snow. But he made it clear he didn't want it. The Starks, all located in key strategic points and positions. Even Arya, despite going beyond Westeros into uncharted territory. The Starks are the winners. That's what matters the most.

[Nicklord]

I like the end points in general. What I don't like is how everyone clearly respects Bran but we didn't really see why, looks like everyone knows what 3ER does but we didn't see except some flashbacks and offscreen Tyrion talks