Velvet Revolver used outside writers for at least one song according to former Scott Weiland collaborator Doug Grean

[ludurigan]

Guitarist Doug Grean, a frequent Scott Weiland collaborator, claims to have "written" at least one song WITH (OR FOR) Velvet Revolver on The Futuristic Podcast of Mark Gerlach.

Alternative Nation transcribed his comments on the subject...

 

“When I was working with Velvet Revolver we did a song [“Come On, Come In”] for the Fantastic Four, this was a really ridiculous story. So we wrote this song, and they approved the demo, and then they said, ‘Go ahead and produce it.’ So we recorded it, but when we got to the point of doing the vocals, Scott wanted to change everything, he wanted to rewrite the whole melody, so he did.

We had already sold one melody, we had sold Fox on one melody, and the melody is the most important part of the song, and he delivered a different melody. I think he thought that the suits weren’t that smart or musical, and they might not even notice, or he didn’t care.

But they were super pissed, and there were so many screaming matches between the Fox suits and the management, and the management and me, it was just nuts. So that’s what he thought about people telling him what to do, and he won eventually. It was like a $400,000 song, and he still won, that’s pretty ballsy. The song wasn’t very good though.”

 

**LINK REMOVED**

 

The quote above seems to indicate that Doug participated in the writing of the song.

is it common knowledge? It is new to me. To the best of my knowledge I had no idea that VR ever used outside writers...

It is not clear by the quote if Doug worked with Scott alone, or with Scott and somebody else, or with Scott and the whole band

Also if this is a Grean/Weiland song, that may explain why VR pretty much ignored the song and barely played it live

In my opinion "Come on Come in" is one of the best VR songs and sounds completely different from their usual stuff...

 

For those interested in VR and Scott Doug Grean talks quite a bit about VR and a lot about Scott on the podcast

http://futuristicpod.com/episode-38-doug-grean-musician-producer-engineer-creator-of-the-series-starman

 

[Azifwekare]

A lot of bands use outside writers, even GN'R, nothing out of the ordinary. It's also not unusual for producers to contribute to the writing/arrangement process (in this case Grean), even if uncredited.

The reason why the band didn't give the track much attention was most likely because it was just a song given to a soundtrack, many artists treat those as throwaways.

[soon]

I havent heard this podcast but on one of the other podcasts recently he was talking about being Scotts long term collaborator, Goin back to 12 Bar Blues iirc. So its more like Elton and Taupin, where Taupin is not an outside writer in the strictest definition of the term. And to split hairs further, I wouldnt say that VR brought him in either way - just Scott to work on only Scotts parts.

Remember that open letter Scott wrote to Axl, slamming Axl for allegedly 'not writing his own lyrics and melodies' 

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

In my opinion "Come on Come in" is one of the best VR songs and sounds completely different from their usual stuff...

I am right there with you.  I love "Come On Come In".   Definitely one of my favorites from them. Loved the video too. 

[RussTCB]

Removed to link to AltNation as @downzy has asked that links to their site not be posted here.

[DTJ80]

1 hour ago, soon said:

I havent heard this podcast but on one of the other podcasts recently he was talking about being Scotts long term collaborator, Goin back to 12 Bar Blues iirc. So its more like Elton and Taupin, where Taupin is not an outside writer in the strictest definition of the term. And to split hairs further, I wouldnt say that VR brought him in either way - just Scott to work on only Scotts parts.

Remember that open letter Scott wrote to Axl, slamming Axl for allegedly 'not writing his own lyrics and melodies' 

Which open letter was that?

[soon]

5 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Which open letter was that?

During VR after Axls court proceedings brought to light his account of the 'drunk Slash came to my house and talked shit about his VR bandmates' event. Weiland fired back with an open letter  that accused Axl of not writing all of his lyrics and melodies and wearing a wig. 

https://www.wackbag.com/threads/scott-weilands-open-letter-to-axl-rose.41342/

http://www.mtv.com/news/1525967/scott-weiland-hits-back-at-unoriginal-uncreative-axl-rose/

[ludurigan]

27 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

A lot of bands use outside writers, even GN'R, nothing out of the ordinary. It's also not unusual for producers to contribute to the writing/arrangement process (in this case Grean), even if uncredited.

The reason why the band didn't give the track much attention was most likely because it was just a song given to a soundtrack, many artists treat those as throwaways.

yes i am aware of that

there is though a difference between using professional sognwriters a.k.a. "song doctors" and writing with friends/former bandmates and associates

guns n roses, for example, never used song doctors, or if they have, it is not known

all the "outsider" help was from friends of the band such as west arkeen, chris weber etc

also i had never heard any of the guys in VR talking about writing stuff with anyone outside the band

yes, there have been quite a few mentions of people associated with Scott that would help him to arrange stuff but i didnt know these people were helping writing songs

 

[DTJ80]

Cheers - a humorous read but wow! Axl wrote Estranged - end of argument right there regarding of how many other songs he has written.

Didnt he later say that he sided with Axl and could understand what had happened once VR fell apart? 

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, soon said:

I havent heard this podcast but on one of the other podcasts recently he was talking about being Scotts long term collaborator, Goin back to 12 Bar Blues iirc. So its more like Elton and Taupin, where Taupin is not an outside writer in the strictest definition of the term. And to split hairs further, I wouldnt say that VR brought him in either way - just Scott to work on only Scotts parts.

Remember that open letter Scott wrote to Axl, slamming Axl for allegedly 'not writing his own lyrics and melodies' 

remember the talk that Scott would suggest various changes in the songs that were given to him by the VR guys? who knows if these songs were not "rewritten" by Scott and his associates

[ludurigan]

47 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Removed to link to AltNation as @downzy has asked that links to their site not be posted here.

 

i have had several posts jarmoed about a week ago on another podcast thread (they just vanished) and as far as i can tell there was nothing wrong with them

 

[soon]

11 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Cheers - a humorous read but wow! Axl wrote Estranged - end of argument right there regarding of how many other songs he has written.

Didnt he later say that he sided with Axl and could understand what had happened once VR fell apart? 

Well said. I know that one of the composers who worked on CD said that he wrote melodies. But I dont know if he was implying vocal/lead melodies. And Scott maybe was referring to what a creative force Izzy was, and trying to somehow use that to minimize Axls contributions? But yeah, Axl is just fine on his own.

Yeah, I remember that too, when Scott in hindsight saw things a lot more from Axls perspective.

9 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

remember the talk that Scott would suggest various changes in the songs that were given to him by the VR guys? who knows if these songs were not "rewritten" by Scott and his associates

Yeah, although I took it to mean primarily that Scott turned down entire songs. VR churned out the Izzy stuff, the Taylor stuff and of course "Stripper Girl" haha. But of course VRs Do IT For The Kids and Izzys Bomb share that main riff so there was at least some cross over.

But like you say, its an intriguing theory that Scott and his writing partner went through some stuff and and made new arrangements. Its was about Scott calling some of the preexisting tracks too "Classic." I think that VR wrote new songs for Scotts voice too. 

[Azifwekare]

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

yes i am aware of that

there is though a difference between using professional sognwriters a.k.a. "song doctors" and writing with friends/former bandmates and associates

guns n roses, for example, never used song doctors, or if they have, it is not known

all the "outsider" help was from friends of the band such as west arkeen, chris weber etc

also i had never heard any of the guys in VR talking about writing stuff with anyone outside the band

yes, there have been quite a few mentions of people associated with Scott that would help him to arrange stuff but i didnt know these people were helping writing songs

 

I've never understood why people are so against "professional" songwriters - after all, they of all people should know what gives a song that special spark. When all is said and done, everyone involved just wants what's best for the song.

Guys like Desmond Child wrote with Aerosmith, Alice Cooper etc which worked well. And going further back, you have brilliant and influential singers like Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Nina Simone etc who built their repertoires around standards and covers.

Not really any different from a friend of the band - what if a band is friends with a "song doctor" too? West Arkeen seemed keen on becoming such a writer.

[Nicklord]

Usually everyone in the room give their opinions about songs. You can see that for example in Metallica's latest album behind the scenes. Usually in the room it was James, Lars, Trujillo, producer and some dude I don't know who. James and Lars would be have the main word but in the end everyone was like "maybe that part should end differently" or something like that. Usually it's not only the credited songwriter that writes the song 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Nicklord

[ludurigan]

2 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

I've never understood why people are so against "professional" songwriters - after all, they of all people should know what gives a song that special spark. When all is said and done, everyone involved just wants what's best for the song.

Guys like Desmond Child wrote with Aerosmith, Alice Cooper etc which worked well. And going further back, you have brilliant and influential singers like Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Nina Simone etc who built their repertoires around standards and covers.

Not really any different from a friend of the band - what if a band is friends with a "song doctor" too? West Arkeen seemed keen on becoming such a writer.

 

yeah me too

i have nothing against song doctors

on the contrary

they are very good with catchy stuff
 

 

what bothers me is people who use song doctors and pretend/claim to write their songs without any help

i suppose you agree that that is pathetic