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How does UYI I work as a "follow up" to Appetite?

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From interviews back around the time of the UYIs' release, Axl and others said that each UYI was planned out in terms of what songs were on which albums to fit a certain theme, basically. The idea was (paraphrashing) UYI I would be the Appetite style record and the "skate park" music, UYI2 was the more experimental and Southern influenced stuff. on Use Your Illusion I, you've got the really aggressive rock tunes, short punk inspired songs here, LALD which Axl called "Welcome to the Jungle 2" back in 1990, NR as the big ballad ala SCOM, and then Coma as the dark epic finale track ala Rocket Queen. Also, UYI I is more the "Izzy" side of the UYIs whereas UYI II is more the "Axl" side.

If you totally exclude UYII (with the exception of Civil War, KOHD and YCBM which had been all released before September 1991 as standalone singles), how does UYI 1 stand up on its own as a followup to Appetite?

 

Edited by Fashionista
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I don't see the albums that way at all.

UYI 1 has more southern oriented songs than UYI 2 (Dust N'Bones, You Ain't the First, Bad Obsession, Bad Apples).

I see it as a mix up of all styles. Like Axl explained on an interview, it was a compilation of everyone's ideas, so everyone would be happy with the record, since they couldn't agree with a direction.

As a matter of fact UYI 2 has more Appetite era recorded songs as well (KOHD, You Could Be Mine, Civl War, Don't Cry (even though it's an alternate version) ). It wasn't experimental at all, apart from My World... It was actually the left overs that weren't put on Appetite and Use Your Illusion 1. (Don't Cry 2 is an obvious one and a very good example of that).

Edited by Propaganda

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I always thought that November Rain would've been better placed on UYI II. 

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1 hour ago, Fashionista said:

From interviews back around the time of the UYIs' release, Axl and others said that each UYI was planned out in terms of what songs were on which albums to fit a certain theme, basically. The idea was (paraphrashing) UYI I would be the Appetite style record and the "skate park" music, UYI2 was the more experimental and Southern influenced stuff. on Use Your Illusion I, you've got the really aggressive rock tunes, short punk inspired songs here, LALD which Axl called "Welcome to the Jungle 2" back in 1990, NR as the big ballad ala SCOM, and then Coma as the dark epic finale track ala Rocket Queen. Also, UYI I is more the "Izzy" side of the UYIs whereas UYI II is more the "Axl" side.

If you totally exclude UYII (with the exception of Civil War, KOHD and YCBM which had been all released before September 1991 as standalone singles), how does UYI 1 stand up on its own as a followup to Appetite?

 

I wouldn't say that Rocket Queen is a dark epic. In fact, I think Axl did say that he wanted to close out AFD with hope. The last three minutes of the song illustrates that. 

Also, both UYI are a mixture of influences and have AFD type songs on each. 

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1 hour ago, Fashionista said:

Also, UYI I is more the "Izzy" side of the UYIs whereas UYI II is more the "Axl" side.

Don't see this .. at all.

Both guys fingerprints are spread all over both albums. As are SLASH and DUFF.

 

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1 hour ago, Sosso said:

I always thought that November Rain would've been better placed on UYI II. 

 

Maybe in concept, but I also think two nearly 10 minute long piano driven songs on 1 album wasn't the best fit. Which is why they split them up.

Edited by thunderram

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I think a thematic thread can be drawn between the two.

Appetite is exactly the type of album a group of raucous wayward youths would write.

Illusions is the fracturing of that core identity and a lead singer grappling with issues of fame and his place in the world. 

But the back half of Appetite is rubbish and Illusions is more bloated than Duff at an open bar. 

Chinese is also a logical progression with a very intelligent bipolar guy making a very intelligent and bipolar album but ultimately one where the fox outfoxes himself. 

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I don't really think of them as two different albums. I just know all of the songs are from "Use Your Illusion" and I don't really give any thought as to whether something was on I or II. Thematic separation makes sense, but past certain stylistic quirks, all of the UYI songs have a UYI tonality to them due to being recorded with the same gear in the same studio. It would be interesting if they had different mixers/masters for each album instead of using the same person/hardware, but my guess is all of the songs were recorded, mixed, and mastered together and then split into two albums.

EDIT: Right, this was supposed to be comparing UYI and Appetite... oh well.

Edited by OmarBradley

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Some of the themes carry over, like Mr. Brownstone-Bad Obsession and The Garden. Love songs, Sweet Child O' Mine-November Rain. But, for me, Appetite is a time and place, it's a reflection and recording to tape of what these kids experienced from around '79-'87. Axl's trouble with police, Out Ta Get Me, Michelle and her problems in My Michelle (which her problems seem to be a female analog of the band members at times), their experiences with women-Rocket Queen, You're Crazy, Sweet Child O' Mine. The way California, the Sunset Strip, and what being in a band was like-Welcome to the Jungle, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Use Your Illusion I and II deal more with varying experiences about life in general.

Axl and his feelings in life towards  love and his own cognitive/emotional dissonance-November Rain, Don't Cry, Estranged, Coma. Izzy's songs seem to be focused on themes rather than of his own experiences-Dust N' Bones just seems to be about death and people, 14 years is about him and Axl, You Could Be Mine (not sure if it represents a woman in Izzy's life or not like  Don't Cry), Double Talkin' Jive is partially about experiences with drugs, and liars in your life (and also finding a dead guy in a garbage can near the studio). It seems to be a wild compilation they attempted to make sense with the track listing for. I honestly think they could have cut a lot of the fat (like shotgun blues, Don't Damn Me) etc. and made them into a concept album. It wouldn't have a concise narrative like The Wall, but there could be key themes around Axl's big tracks maybe, or just continue writing about their own experiences. Either way, i still love the albums, just wish we had a better mix of them.. and at least 10 proshot UYI shows of my choosing haha. A lot of the songs come more alive when performed live, and have the magic they  couldn't capture in the studio (Perfect Crime, Bad Obsession, Dust N' Bones, You Could Be Mine, etc.)

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I always considered, like a previous post on here said, the Illusions to be one big album, even if the songs were decided between the two I always found them to be one cohesive piece

I personally think of Lies as the follow up to Appetite, showing the acoustic side of the band after an all electric album, and the Illusions as the next step in showing different sides of their music personalities - longer songs (Coma), piano driven songs, etc.

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2 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

Some of the themes carry over, like Mr. Brownstone-Bad Obsession and The Garden. Love songs, Sweet Child O' Mine-November Rain. But, for me, Appetite is a time and place, it's a reflection and recording to tape of what these kids experienced from around '79-'87. Axl's trouble with police, Out Ta Get Me, Michelle and her problems in My Michelle (which her problems seem to be a female analog of the band members at times), their experiences with women-Rocket Queen, You're Crazy, Sweet Child O' Mine. The way California, the Sunset Strip, and what being in a band was like-Welcome to the Jungle, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Use Your Illusion I and II deal more with varying experiences about life in general.

Axl and his feelings in life towards  love and his own cognitive/emotional dissonance-November Rain, Don't Cry, Estranged, Coma. Izzy's songs seem to be focused on themes rather than of his own experiences-Dust N' Bones just seems to be about death and people, 14 years is about him and Axl, You Could Be Mine (not sure if it represents a woman in Izzy's life or not like  Don't Cry), Double Talkin' Jive is partially about experiences with drugs, and liars in your life (and also finding a dead guy in a garbage can near the studio). It seems to be a wild compilation they attempted to make sense with the track listing for. I honestly think they could have cut a lot of the fat (like shotgun blues, Don't Damn Me) etc. and made them into a concept album. It wouldn't have a concise narrative like The Wall, but there could be key themes around Axl's big tracks maybe, or just continue writing about their own experiences. Either way, i still love the albums, just wish we had a better mix of them.. and at least 10 proshot UYI shows of my choosing haha. A lot of the songs come more alive when performed live, and have the magic they  couldn't capture in the studio (Perfect Crime, Bad Obsession, Dust N' Bones, You Could Be Mine, etc.)

I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Don't Damn Me. It 's far from  "cutting a lot of fat" as you stated. It's one of the most powerful songs on either UYI albums.  I wish that GNR played it live back in the day.  It's a song that resonates with me throughout my life. 

 

Edited by Draguns
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UYI's can be seen as a way of getting it all out there and also a last gasp effort of original material before the band imploded.

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5 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

Some of the themes carry over, like Mr. Brownstone-Bad Obsession and The Garden. Love songs, Sweet Child O' Mine-November Rain. But, for me, Appetite is a time and place, it's a reflection and recording to tape of what these kids experienced from around '79-'87. Axl's trouble with police, Out Ta Get Me, Michelle and her problems in My Michelle (which her problems seem to be a female analog of the band members at times), their experiences with women-Rocket Queen, You're Crazy, Sweet Child O' Mine. The way California, the Sunset Strip, and what being in a band was like-Welcome to the Jungle, Nightrain, Anything Goes, etc. Use Your Illusion I and II deal more with varying experiences about life in general.

Axl and his feelings in life towards  love and his own cognitive/emotional dissonance-November Rain, Don't Cry, Estranged, Coma. Izzy's songs seem to be focused on themes rather than of his own experiences-Dust N' Bones just seems to be about death and people, 14 years is about him and Axl, You Could Be Mine (not sure if it represents a woman in Izzy's life or not like  Don't Cry), Double Talkin' Jive is partially about experiences with drugs, and liars in your life (and also finding a dead guy in a garbage can near the studio). It seems to be a wild compilation they attempted to make sense with the track listing for. I honestly think they could have cut a lot of the fat (like shotgun blues, Don't Damn Me) etc. and made them into a concept album. It wouldn't have a concise narrative like The Wall, but there could be key themes around Axl's big tracks maybe, or just continue writing about their own experiences. Either way, i still love the albums, just wish we had a better mix of them.. and at least 10 proshot UYI shows of my choosing haha. A lot of the songs come more alive when performed live, and have the magic they  couldn't capture in the studio (Perfect Crime, Bad Obsession, Dust N' Bones, You Could Be Mine, etc.)

Dont damn me has one of slashs best solos in my opinion. Plus i love the breakdown after the solo.

"smoke'em if ya got'em". 

Edited by Sydney Fan
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4 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Dont damn me has one of slashs best solos in my opinion.

"smoke'em if ya got'em". 

The lyrics and solo are great on that track, but the recording to me sounds overproduced and just lacking on the vocal track, especially the first verse and chorus. It would probably be better live than the UYI I version

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57 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

The lyrics and solo are great on that track, but the recording to me sounds overproduced and just lacking on the vocal track, especially the first verse and chorus. It would probably be better live than the UYI I version

I hope the band remaster the albums come 30th anniversary time. I would prefer studio but was it ever done live i wonder?.

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35 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I hope the band remaster the albums come 30th anniversary time. I would prefer studio but was it ever done live i wonder?.

No it was the only track from UYI1 that has never been played live... Which is a shame, but then again this song must be a bitch to sing live without breaks, you just have no time to breathe 

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I think it would be accurate to say that they dont work as a followup, except that history shows that they worked incredibly well as a follow up.

Even more classic hard rock fair like RNDTH, which is more like AFD then say YATF, doesnt have that groove and sex appeal that AFD rockers had. RNDTH has Matt playing a more 'metal approach' with that big hollywood drum sound. The production choices, layered arrangements, quickly dated tones, mix and mastering remove it from AFDs orbit. But even the weakest track is imbued with the energy of "we are going to play these songs on our stadium world tour." A sound personified by a shirtless, arched back, peacocking Slash on stage that tour. There was enough forward momentum packed into the songs that 'it just worked.'

Edited by soon
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14 hours ago, Draguns said:

I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Don't Damn Me. It 's far from  "cutting a lot of fat" as you stated. It's one of the most powerful songs on either UYI albums.  I wish that GNR played it live back in the day.  It's a song that resonates with me throughout my life. 

 

I agree with you. And there's not a lot of fat I'd trim off UYI in general. But Don't Damn Me shouldn't be anywhere near a list of "things to cut from UYI."

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14 hours ago, Draguns said:

I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding Don't Damn Me. It 's far from  "cutting a lot of fat" as you stated. It's one of the most powerful songs on either UYI albums.  I wish that GNR played it live back in the day.  It's a song that resonates with me throughout my life. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, OmarBradley said:

I agree with you. And there's not a lot of fat I'd trim off UYI in general. But Don't Damn Me shouldn't be anywhere near a list of "things to cut from UYI."

 

Gotta agree! I can't understand why some people don't like Don't Damn Me. If you ask me it's by far the best rocker on UYI1 and the third best song on the album right after Coma and November Rain. What exactly is it that some people don't like about it? It has a cool riff, perhaps Axl's best vocals on the album, deep lyrics, one of the least generic choruses on the album and a nice change of pace in the middle of the song. It's not bloated like some other UYI songs, it's not cheesy like for example Back of Bitch. It doesn't feel unfinished like for example Double Talkin Jive. It's probably the only song on the album that I can't find any faults in. So I'm curious to know why some don't like it.

 

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I love UYI1.  I think it is one hell of a rock and roll album and has many of my favorite GNR songs on.

 

RNDTH - totally underrated, and a great opening song

DN'B - one of the best Izzy songs, Ask and Izzy are great together on this one.

LALD - good cover

DC - a GnR classic.  One of their best.

PC - great rocker.  Love this song.

YATF - this one isn't my favorite but I like it here and there

BO - fun song, fits in well between you ain't the first and DTJ

DTJ - musically one of the best songs GnR had ever done.  I wish there was another verse but a great song anyway

NR - an absolute classic and the center piece of this album.

TG - not the best on the album and an easy one to forget about but a very good song nevertheless

GOE - oh man one of my favorites.  I Love the tempo of this song, just a lot of fun.

DDM - one of my favorite GnR tunes ever.  Great riff, great lyrics, great solom. Easily one of my top 5 and the most underrated gnr song IMO

BA - unfortunately this song loses me.  One of my least favorite tunes.  Has decent music but just a bad song imo.

DH - I skip this song a lot along with bad apples because I'm too excited to get to Coma but this is a really good song with a lot to really enjoy.

COMA - Another favorite!  Just one of the best songs this band has ever done.  So happy I got to see them play it live 3 times on the NITL tour!  Absolutely one of the highlights of the tour for me.  I can't say enough good about this song.

 

I LOVE this album.  So many great rock songs 🤤

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I’ve heard UYI I was like the follow up. Then UYI II was more the leftovers. But Axl said he saw it as one big 30 track album. Sometimes it does seem like that with the order of the trilogy being Don’t Cry, November Rain, Estranged and then songs about the end like Yesterdays, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up being on II. 

UYI I has a lot of Izzy songs: RNDTH, Dust, Don’t Cry, Perfect Crime, YATF, Bad Obsession, Bad Apples, Double Talkin Jive. With Live n let die, The Garden and Nov Rain it has a much closer feel to AFD era stuff. Dead Horse is like Axl’s comment on that era. Coma closes it out. The one thing is I think YCBM should have been track 2. Dust is more UYI II. 

You wake up from the Coma with Izzy on 14 Years. He’s kind of over the whole thing. Civil War is a political song. Yesterdays is obviously saying goodbye to all that. There’s new punk songs like GITR and Shotgun, So Fine which seem like new Illusion era songs. Breakdown and Estranged also seem new. Pretty Tied Up Izzy is predicting the end. 

There is a kind of mirroring with Coma/Locomotive, Dust/14, DC on both. Songs with lyrics about Illusions on each DDM and Loco. A cover on each. Singles like NR on one and YCBM on the other. There’s balance and elliptical feel with DC at both ends. 

But basically UYI I is old. UYI II is new or more experimental. 

I feel like YCBM should have been on I. 

You can see the order because they released Yesterdays, Civil War, Estranged as later singles. 

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2 hours ago, wasted said:

I’ve heard UYI I was like the follow up. Then UYI II was more the leftovers. But Axl said he saw it as one big 30 track album. Sometimes it does seem like that with the order of the trilogy being Don’t Cry, November Rain, Estranged and then songs about the end like Yesterdays, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up being on II. 

UYI I has a lot of Izzy songs: RNDTH, Dust, Don’t Cry, Perfect Crime, YATF, Bad Obsession, Bad Apples, Double Talkin Jive. With Live n let die, The Garden and Nov Rain it has a much closer feel to AFD era stuff. Dead Horse is like Axl’s comment on that era. Coma closes it out. The one thing is I think YCBM should have been track 2. Dust is more UYI II. 

You wake up from the Coma with Izzy on 14 Years. He’s kind of over the whole thing. Civil War is a political song. Yesterdays is obviously saying goodbye to all that. There’s new punk songs like GITR and Shotgun, So Fine which seem like new Illusion era songs. Breakdown and Estranged also seem new. Pretty Tied Up Izzy is predicting the end. 

There is a kind of mirroring with Coma/Locomotive, Dust/14, DC on both. Songs with lyrics about Illusions on each DDM and Loco. A cover on each. Singles like NR on one and YCBM on the other. There’s balance and elliptical feel with DC at both ends. 

But basically UYI I is old. UYI II is new or more experimental. 

I feel like YCBM should have been on I. 

You can see the order because they released Yesterdays, Civil War, Estranged as later singles. 

I think they knew YCBM and NR were going to be the big singles and wanted them on separate albums.   If you put YCBM on UYI1 it really leaves 2 a bit lacking on the singles side.

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