Tyler Drama Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 7:11 AM, t-p-d-a said: The more important question is. Why Estranged is played very early in the set. It is absolutely out of place. The first songs are there to fire up the crowd. I saw the NITL... tour three times and so far this song has brought down the mood after the audience was so hyped up. In my opinion, this belongs in the category "Epic". And I think epic songs should be played towards the end. I also ask myself why the trilogy is played backwards. First Estranged, then November Rain and finally Don't Cry. Estranged does not feel right at the beginning of the concert, especially in summer on a bright day. The song screams for epic proportions. It needs lighting effects Agreed on this. Always felt it should be more towards the end, like the UYI tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro GNR Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I believe it had to do with Axls feelings towards the song. Not only because of Stephanie/Dylan, but also because of Slash and what he did for Axls baby. Im just guessing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Personal opinion, but I'd say the ballads should be intentionally kept to a minimum in live setlists. Estranged is by far the weak link of the Illusions bunch (Don't Cry, November Rain), Patience is much more of a fan favorite, and I'd rather hear Street of Dreams/The Blues over Estranged any day. It just makes sense why a ten minute ballad is left out of a chunk of their touring history. Not taking anything away from the song of course, it fits perfectly in Illusions 2. Just not as a concert staple, maybe as an occasional surprise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro GNR Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I believe that for die hard fans like us, we may agree Estranged is GnR best song period. I guess thats what Axl understood after some time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphelmo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 20.01.2019 at 3:52 AM, Tom-Ass said: It just isn't the same without Slash... And yet they tried to play it and it sounded horrible. And I'm taking Axl out of that equasion. No one on earth besides Slash can handle that riff, not to mention the dolphins section or solos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnrcane Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 10:55 AM, estrangedtwat said: My favorite horseshit fan theory of all though was people said he was "uncomfortable" singing the line "but I'm only 28." Well, dude is pushing 60 now and he's still singing it, so that theory, like so many others, was a load of fanboy wankery. If they tour in 2020 he can change it to "but I'm only 58." 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR 1991 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 7:44 AM, Tom-Ass said: Way to ruin an Estranged thread with CD jibberish The thread is literally about why the song wasn’t played live from 2001-2010 aka the Chinese era. Not hard to grasp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Gackt said: Personal opinion, but I'd say the ballads should be intentionally kept to a minimum in live setlists. Estranged is by far the weak link of the Illusions bunch (Don't Cry, November Rain), Patience is much more of a fan favorite, and I'd rather hear Street of Dreams/The Blues over Estranged any day. It just makes sense why a ten minute ballad is left out of a chunk of their touring history. Thank god he doesn't play that shit song anymore. With Slash back, Estranged even more so is a highlight amongst the set list. The only time I saw it before with Slash was in '93 in Munich, where they used the footage for the video. I was delighted when they finally started to play it again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said: Thank god he doesn't play that shit song anymore. With Slash back, Estranged even more so is a highlight amongst the set list. The only time I saw it before with Slash was in '93 in Munich, where they used the footage for the video. I was delighted when they finally started to play it again. Seriously.. Estranged has easily been one of the highlights of the tour.. Even with Axl's voice during certain parts 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 21/01/2019 at 1:52 AM, F*ck Fear said: I don't know what you are on about. When I saw Guns N' Roses in 2010, they played 10 songs from Chinese Democracy. All of which are Guns N' Roses songs. you are welcome to believe that On 21/01/2019 at 1:15 AM, RussTCB said: Nah, we'll just call them Guns N Roses songs since that's what they are you are free to believe that On 21/01/2019 at 12:23 AM, Gordon Comstock said: If CD is the most heavily played album, and half (or more) of the set is either CD songs, solo songs, or covers (My Generation, Sonic Reducer, Liquor & Whores, Whole Lotta Rosie, etc), then you'd be wrong to say that he centered the show around only the classic songs. I'll admit that was the case in 2001-06 but at the time I saw them, it wasn't the case, they were playing at least 9 CD songs at most shows around then. please show me *one* setlist where axl played more CD songs than songs from GNR albums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 21/01/2019 at 12:16 AM, Tom2112 said: My god! what a stupid argument. Stop whinging, Guns N Roses existed between 1996-2015 GET OVER IT! yeah you are correct, your argument was much better than mine, thanks a lot for illuminating the discussion with extremely articulate & informative arguments! let me ask you something... do you have some sort of copyright (meaning "intellectual property") on these powerful arguments that you used such as "My god", "What a Stupid Argument", "Stop Whining" and "GET OVER IT"? I am asking you because I am planning to use some of those (or maybe ALL of those!!!) on my next discussion I'm wondering if there is any need for me to pay you copyrights or ask your permission before using them? you know, so I can, like, win the discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 21/01/2019 at 12:10 AM, Tom2112 said: Ok, I wrote that on my phone and it came out arseways! Axl didn't say that exactly... Basically, Axl said that his focus for GNRs Chinese Democracy touring was the new material from the latest Guns N' Roses record, he said he would like to play some older material that hadn't been played in years too but felt the time wasn't necessarily right. Now, having said that! CD had 14 songs, not every song on a record is going to be a great song for the live arena... so certain songs were naturally removed from playlists. Look at the setlist for 2009-2014 and tell me that CD isn't well placed in each and every show. Also, are you honestly trying to suggest Guns N roses shouldn't have been playing half of their most popular record? with an average of 30 songs in a set it's not that much to see 5/6 AFD songs. axl should just have had the balls to really base his live performances on new songs from his new band and bury appetite as he said he wanted to we all know that in any given show from axl's band 2001-2018 there were always more songs from the past then from chinese democracy On 21/01/2019 at 12:17 AM, DeathCubeUK said: You're hardly comparing like for like though. Although you're differentiating in 'era's'..the CD era is one album. If you compare CD 'era' to Use Your Illusion I 'era' or Spaghetti Incident 'era' or Lies 'era' (you get the idea), there's only really Appetite that proves your point. The example that was made was 9 CD songs played to AFD's 8, but if you compare Chinese Democracy to all other GN'R albums combined and call them era's you win. Last time I saw GN'R they played as many covers as AFD songs. Go figure. there were two eras when axl started touring with his new band. there was "the past" and there was "the now" and we all know that there were always more songs from "the past" then from "the now" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, ludurigan said: You are free to believe that Believing facts is an old habit of mine. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, ludurigan said: yeah you are correct, your argument was much better than mine, thanks a lot for illuminating the discussion with extremely articulate & informative arguments! let me ask you something... do you have some sort of copyright (meaning "intellectual property") on these powerful arguments that you used such as "My god", "What a Stupid Argument", "Stop Whining" and "GET OVER IT"? I am asking you because I am planning to use some of those (or maybe ALL of those!!!) on my next discussion I'm wondering if there is any need for me to pay you copyrights or ask your permission before using them? you know, so I can, like, win the discussion! Ah.... yeah fire away, use it all you like😅 although I used the word 'whinging' not whining. Both apply though😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathCubeUK Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, ludurigan said: there were two eras when axl started touring with his new band. there was "the past" and there was "the now" and we all know that there were always more songs from "the past" then from "the now" Lol, did you even read what i said? "The past" as you refer to it, includes Live like a Suicide, AFD, Lies, UYI I, UYI II & The Spaghetti Incident.. "the now" is Chinese Democracy. 14 tracks. 16 if you want to include Silkworms & OMG. The same number of songs that are on UYI I alone. So yes, there are literally more songs from the past lol. As a % of all Songs GN'R ever recorded to album, Axl actually includes a large proportion of CD live. I know you're just trolling, but I thought I would humour you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, ludurigan said: axl should just have had the balls to really base his live performances on new songs from his new band and bury appetite as he said he wanted to we all know that in any given show from axl's band 2001-2018 there were always more songs from the past then from chinese democracy there were two eras when axl started touring with his new band. there was "the past" and there was "the now" and we all know that there were always more songs from "the past" then from "the now" Burying AFD was a misinterpreted quote in relation to the new album at the time UYI, not CD. Now he did say those words "I want to bury AFD" But that didn't mean he wanted to not play those songs going forward. He just wanted to make a better record and have people equally excited about that, rather than people staying firmly in the past and not allowing musical growth. Also, do you write for alternativenation? you would fit right in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, ludurigan said: please show me *one* setlist where axl played more CD songs than songs from GNR albums On the tour I mentioned earlier, every show was CD-based. Most shows got 10 CD songs. Of course they also played classic songs, but the CD songs and covers equaled or outnumbered the classic songs at plenty of shows. Here's the setlist from the show I saw: Spoiler Chinese Democracy Welcome To The Jungle It's So Easy Mr Brownstone Sorry Fortus Solo Live And Let Die If The World Rocket Queen Dizzy Solo Street Of Dreams You Could Be Mine Knockin' On Heaven's Door My Generation IRS November Rain Bumblefoot Solo Shackler's Revenge Liquor & Whores Out Ta Get Me Ashba Solo Sweet Child O' Mine This I Love Nightrain Madagascar Better Patience Paradise City 8 AFD, 1 Lies, and 2 UYI songs. 9 CD songs, 2 covers, and 2 'classic' covers (I don't count LALD and KOHD as GNR songs). Even if you remove LALD and KOHD it's the same number of classic songs as CD songs and non-classic covers. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to accept that the 09/10 shows were based around CD. Actually, I know why, it's because you're still clinging to your tired, boring shtick. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stro Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Bucket's take on Estranged could have been magical 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gackt Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 hours ago, PatrickS77 said: Thank god he doesn't play that shit song anymore. With Slash back, Estranged even more so is a highlight amongst the set list. The only time I saw it before with Slash was in '93 in Munich, where they used the footage for the video. I was delighted when they finally started to play it again. It doesn't matter who's manning the guitar for the song, I'll always find it to be a waste of space and noise in an already loaded setlist that could be filled with something that translates a lot better live. Personal opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post F*ck Fear Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 hours ago, ludurigan said: you are welcome to believe that you are free to believe that please show me *one* setlist where axl played more CD songs than songs from GNR albums I do believe it. My ticket stubs from 2002, 2006, 2010, 2011 & 2013 along with the Chinese Democracy cd have the band name written on them. Slash & Duff playing these songs every night prooves the point, big guy. Guns N' Roses. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedYourIllusion Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 11:39 PM, F*ck Fear said: This topic has me wishing the 2001-2002 lineup would have played Estranged. Buckethead would have handled the leads real well. I don't complain though, I've been lucky enough to see every lineup since 2002. And I've heard every Chinese track live, with the exception of 'Riad N' The Bedouins' and 'Prostitute'. In a perfect world Axl could have released his intended 3 records, 2002, 2006, and 2010. We still would have the reunion in 2016! Estranged would just sound weird with Buckethead tone that he used in Guns. I'm sure he could handle the song like Soothesayer. But when I think Estranged, I think Slash's tone bleeding and cutting through the mix and song. It'd be an interesting listen though, I'm sure he would have done it Justice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro GNR Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I always wondered why neither Slash nor BBF played the higher note before the last riff of the first section of the song. When I listen to the studio version, after the “still talking to myself....alone” Slash guitar comes in as a wasp sting. It has always been a highlight of the song for me, and they NEVER replicated it live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papashaun Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It's simple as to why it took so long to return to the set list.....Because it was years before Axl returned from sleeping with Mermaids and swimming with dolphins near the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.....Once he was reunited with his beloved Converse high-tops, it's like, "Hey, let's put it back in the show!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Alejandro GNR said: I always wondered why neither Slash nor BBF played the higher note before the last riff of the first section of the song. When I listen to the studio version, after the “still talking to myself....alone” Slash guitar comes in as a wasp sting. It has always been a highlight of the song for me, and they NEVER replicated it live. I could be wrong, but I think what you're talking about is a pinch harmonic. Slash does them across a couple different GNR recordings but never does them live. I always thought Ron would do it for sure but he just never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphelmo Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) On 23.01.2019 at 6:28 PM, RussTCB said: I could be wrong, but I think what you're talking about is a pinch harmonic. Slash does them across a couple different GNR recordings but never does them live. @Alejandro GNR Pinch harmonics with a bend (attacked quicker though, something like THIS.MP3 ), it's not that easy to hold that note, I'd avoid it either as you can f**k that up very easy He plays a regular bend instead. About the second part of your post, you're indeed wrong. You don't have to look very far to finds some pinchin' from Slash: https://youtu.be/NWDnl5dBGzg?t=186 Edited January 24, 2019 by Ralphelmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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