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Sosso

1983-1992: Timeline of the early line-ups

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29 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I tend to think of Guns N' Roses as a project from October 1984 til March 1985. GN'R became a band when Michael Jagosz left L. A. Guns and Tracii was in need of a singer. 

That happened in "the beginning of 1985", so it would mean, if you are correct in assuming that Tracii didn't consider GN'R a proper band until he had a fight with Jagosz, that it lasted for 4-5 months. And I guess it makes sense that before 1985, Tracii was drawn between LA Guns and GN'R. 

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2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

WOW

:headbang:

I will emphasize the intro caveat:

"This thread will present the history of Guns N' Roses, from its beginning in 1985 to today. Although all posts are by me, I wouldn't have been able to do this without the massive help from @Blackstar Smile

Each post in the thread will deal with a time-period, and the posts will be cross-referenced to the interview and article databases. We will aim to avoid unsubstantiated rumours and myths, and instead focus on what is actually known about the period based on biographies, interviews, articles, etc. In those cases where the sources disagree, we will aim to present every side to the story. We welcome anyone with first-person account of the band to voice their opinion, especially if they disagree with the story as it is told. There is no agenda behind this work, besides trying to present an objective account of the history of the band.

The thread is currently under development. Each post will be improved as new sources are consulted. I am doing this chronologically, and the sources that have so far been included is displayed here: /t2861-interview-and-article-index#11271 As new interviews and sources are made available, the thread will be updated. As such, it is a living document that can be adjusted and revised at any time as new stories and quotes emerge.

Hopefully, in the end, this will be the most comprehensive source to the history of the band, and will supplement the other sections of this site. It will be the go-to site to delve into any particular chapter in the story of GN'R. And the according comprehensive database of articles and interviews will be valuable to anyone who writes their own story of the band."

At the moment it is horribly written, confusing in structure, and includes lots of mistakes. So please have understanding and patience. It will be really good when it is finished, though.

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7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That happened in "the beginning of 1985", so it would mean, if you are correct in assuming that Tracii didn't consider GN'R a proper band until he had a fight with Jagosz, that it lasted for 4-5 months. And I guess it makes sense that before 1985, Tracii was drawn between LA Guns and GN'R. 

I had many projects like that in the past. We had a name, a couple of songs and a one or two musicians, but I wouldn't have called it a proper band. 

Edited by Sosso

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2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I had many projects like that in the past. We had a name, a couple of songs and a one or two musicians, but I wouldn't have called it a proper band. 

That was the case for many of Duff's 31 bands prior to coming to Hollywood, too :)

The thing is, we don't know if that was the case of GN'R in 1984. It is plausible, yes, but until someone involved actually comes out and says it was a dormant thing, then we simply can't be certain.

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That was the case for many of Duff's 31 bands prior to coming to Hollywood, too :)

The thing is, we don't know if that was the case of GN'R in 1984. It is plausible, yes, but until someone involved actually comes out and says it was a dormant thing, then we simply can't be certain.

The strongest evidence for me is that they had only four rehearsals before the radio interview in March 1985. One would think that the rehearsals already started in autumn 1984?

Edited by Sosso

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40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I will emphasize the intro caveat:

"This thread will present the history of Guns N' Roses, from its beginning in 1985 to today. Although all posts are by me, I wouldn't have been able to do this without the massive help from @Blackstar Smile

Each post in the thread will deal with a time-period, and the posts will be cross-referenced to the interview and article databases. We will aim to avoid unsubstantiated rumours and myths, and instead focus on what is actually known about the period based on biographies, interviews, articles, etc. In those cases where the sources disagree, we will aim to present every side to the story. We welcome anyone with first-person account of the band to voice their opinion, especially if they disagree with the story as it is told. There is no agenda behind this work, besides trying to present an objective account of the history of the band.

The thread is currently under development. Each post will be improved as new sources are consulted. I am doing this chronologically, and the sources that have so far been included is displayed here: /t2861-interview-and-article-index#11271 As new interviews and sources are made available, the thread will be updated. As such, it is a living document that can be adjusted and revised at any time as new stories and quotes emerge.

Hopefully, in the end, this will be the most comprehensive source to the history of the band, and will supplement the other sections of this site. It will be the go-to site to delve into any particular chapter in the story of GN'R. And the according comprehensive database of articles and interviews will be valuable to anyone who writes their own story of the band."

At the moment it is horribly written, confusing in structure, and includes lots of mistakes. So please have understanding and patience. It will be really good when it is finished, though.

i find it brilliant

congrats!

let me ask you, have you ever read the book "Please Kill Me, The Uncensored Oral History of Punk"?

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2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

i find it brilliant

congrats!

let me ask you, have you ever read the book "Please Kill Me, The Uncensored Oral History of Punk"?

No, I haven't. Is it any good?

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

No, I haven't. Is it any good?

it is fantastic

and it is best-seller book

i truly recommend it = https://www.amazon.com/Please-Kill-Me-Uncensored-History/dp/0802125360/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1549909749&sr=8-1

i remembered of it immediately after seeing your work

the book is very similar to what you and @Blackstar are doing

there is also another similar book (which is also great) that is similar to that = https://www.amazon.com/Walk-This-Way-Autobiography-Aerosmith/dp/0060515805/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1549909929&sr=8-2

your work screams "book" to me!

 

 

Edited by ludurigan
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56 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Didn't realize Tracii was there. Cool. No doubt any lingering questions Tracii had about if he wanted to remain in GNR were put to rest when he saw those assless chaps :lol:

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Although it doesn't necessarily mean anything or consist proof about the timeline, it's worth mentioning that in the 1992 partnership agreement it was stated that Guns N' Roses existed since December 1984:

This agreement is entered into on the basis of the following facts:
 
A.    The Partners are members of the musical group professionally known as “Guns N’ Roses” (the “Group”), which, commencing in December 1984 and continuing until the date hereof, operated under an [unreadable] partnership agreement.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t3745-1992-10-dd-guns-n-roses-partnership-contract-memorandum-of-agreement

23 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

Did Road Crew ever record something? I'd love to hear Duff, Slash, and Steven 😁😁😁

There are some short demo clips on youtube (I believe they're from Marc Canter's collection), but not with Duff. 

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"1992 partnership agreement it was stated that Guns N' Roses existed since December 1984"

Maybe it's because of "Don't Cry" which has been written and was played live in end of 1984 (before GN'R existed) already?

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^^^

Maybe, as Don't Cry has always been referred to as the first song written for Guns N' Roses.

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I remembered reading once that Tracii and possibly someone else received a one time check from Geffen once GN'R was signed. It was, ostensibly payment for songs that they were around during the creation of. Move to the City, was definitely one of them.

It was more to head off any claims that they weren't compensated or credited for songs in the initial days of the band. 

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2 hours ago, appetite4illusions said:

I remembered reading once that Tracii and possibly someone else received a one time check from Geffen once GN'R was signed. It was, ostensibly payment for songs that they were around during the creation of. Move to the City, was definitely one of them.

It was more to head off any claims that they weren't compensated or credited for songs in the initial days of the band. 

This seems correct. Although I don’t think Imo that Tracii took part in the writing sessions of don’t cry, anything goes etc.

sure, he laid down some terrible shredding solos but does that even count for a credit

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15 hours ago, Sosso said:

 

 

the dates for the HR stuff were always a bit blurry, but 1) this was NOT Hollywood Rose yet, it was called Rose (listen to them, somebody says "we're Rose") - which pinpoints this to somewhere before late April 1984 (the band changed name from Rose to Hollywood Rose at that point).

what always puzzled me, was when exactly the band started - originally as AXL, then renamed to Rose, which lasted for some months.

we know that the "1983 Demo" or "Rose Demo" was recorded in January 1984, because the liner notes at the cassette (I think) said so.

but when was the band actually formed is unknown to me. must definitely be late 1983, because their first show happened on January 3rd 1984, which leaves not much real room in 1984 for a band formation and rehearsals.

and already by the time of the first show, they called themselves Rose - or at least I get the impression that they never performed as AXL.

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8 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

@Gambit83 has to ask Raz if he ever recorded any of the pre AFD-lineup GN'R shows and/or any L.A Guns shows with Axl on vocals! If he did he hopefully still has those tapes!

Raz said Marc Canter did.

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7 minutes ago, Gambit83 said:

Raz said Marc Canter did.

I would love to hear the first two GN'R rehearsals (with Ole Beich on bass) and the very first show from March 26, 1985.

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:18 PM, Sosso said:

I would love to hear the first two GN'R rehearsals (with Ole Beich on bass) and the very first show from March 26, 1985.

hard to say. Marc Canter recorded a shitload of early GNR shows, but I'm not sure he started from the very beginning. 

the first recording I know of is 1985-06-06, which was the first show of the AFD lineup (Tracii and Rob were still in the show flyer, but Slash and Steven Adler already replaced them in the actual show).

on the other hand, we know setlists from all the early shows - how do we know them? or at least setlist.fm is listing them https://www.setlist.fm/search?page=3&query=artist:(Guns+N’+Roses)+date:[1985-01-01+TO+1985-12-31]

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1 minute ago, zombux said:

hard to say. Marc Canter recorded a shitload of early GNR shows, but I'm not sure he started from the very beginning. 

the first recording I know of is 1985-06-06, which was the first show of the AFD lineup (Tracii and Rob were still in the show flyer, but Slash and Steven Adler already replaced them in the actual show).

on the other hand, we know setlists from all the early shows - how do we know them? or at least setlist.fm is listing them https://www.setlist.fm/search?page=3&query=artist:(Guns+N’+Roses)+date:[1985-01-01+TO+1985-12-31]

On setlist.fm, for the March 26 show the source is listed to be Cue's biography. The problem is only that Cue only speculates on the setlist. You can read Cue writing about this show here: http://www.a-4-d.com/t927-1985-03-26-the-troubadour-los-angeles-usa#11339

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They have mainly played songs from Hollywood Rose and some covers, which was one of the reasons for Tracii's exit. I can understand his point of view, because it seems to me that the guys from L.A. Guns were not involved enough in the creative process. 

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2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

They have mainly played songs from Hollywood Rose and some covers, which was one of the reasons for Tracii's exit. I can understand his point of view, because it seems to me that the guys from L.A. Guns were not involved enough in the creative process. 

That's basically Cue's argument. You had Camp Lafayette and Camp Hollywood with slightly different musical interests and vision yet they ended up focusing on Izzy and Axl's material. Eventually that helped push Tracii and Rob away. 

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5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That's basically Cue's argument. You had Camp Lafayette and Camp Hollywood with slightly different musical interests and vision yet they ended up focusing on Izzy and Axl's material. Eventually that helped push Tracii and Rob away. 

I've read an interview with Tracii were he said that he and Izzy had rearranged a couple of Hollywood Rose and L. A. Guns songs for two guitars. They eventually played one or two of those L. A. Guns songs, at best. 

Edited by Sosso

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