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Axl Rose On Why He Shouldn't Have Been On the Use Your Illusion Tour

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8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Axl had been prescribed medication for manic depression (lithium). This is at least an indication as far as his mental issues go, although no one here can determine what he had exactly. Then, in the Illusions period, he opted for (regression) therapy and other "alternative" treatments instead of conventional treatment, probably because he thought they worked better for him and made him feel better in dealing with what was wrong with him (as he himself had said, see quote from Musician magazine @SoulMonster posted above).

As for the child abuse story he told, parts of it are true, documented in the local press at the time they happened (the kidnapping part and some other things about his father, who had some serious issues and his reputation was anything but good). The abuse part could have just been a "recreated" false memory that was "inserted" and mixed with real events through regression therapy - but who knows, really. (There's also the possibility that Axl told that story instead of another he didn't want to go public with or that he didn't tell the full story, because Tom Zutaut has mentioned a different abuse story that Axl hasn't talked about publicly). But what is relevant to this topic of discussion is that Axl believed that he was abused.

The "false memory" is a strange phenomenon.   There have been times that I question the reality of a memory I have from childhood or even later.  Without someone to corroborate it it's like "what the hell, did that really happen?"😄

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4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

But at the same time everybody that sits back and claims to have mental illnesses doesn't have em or at least doesn't have them at a severity to where it becomes a significant hinderance in people and their ability to get on with their lives.

This isn't exactly the case with Axl, though, because he has tried to deny that he's had a mental illness.

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7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

This isn't exactly the case with Axl, though, because he has tried to deny that he's had a mental illness.

Well we've had one of each in this thread, first he says he's mental, then he's not, then he's been raped, then he may not have been raped etc etc etc :lol: 

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43 minutes ago, DK6 said:

This sort of tough guy shit gets me down.

The leading cause of death in men aged 20 to 30 is suicide.

This sort of attitude of basically telling people to harden up is a huge issue in society.

Depressed? Just cheer up.

Anxious? Don't worry about it.

This attitude belittles mental health issues and leads to people feeling that a condition they have, often caused by a chemical imbalance, is their fault.

It's so easy to sit at a computer and be a macho man about these issues but you're really just displaying a major lack of understanding.

A little bit of empathy wouldn't go astray - try to understand the difficulties other people can have in life.

Just comparing Axl to other musicians who handle things better is not reasonable. People deal with things differently. 

Check out www.beyondblue.org.au

Might be time to update your thinking.

Can't speak for others but your tough guy act is pretty unimpressive to me.

His post is pretty tone-deaf in the modern era where suicide is such a huge epidemic. I've struggled with suicidal thoughts since my teenage years and myself and many others are really tired of being told to just suck it up. Mental health is becoming more and more of a priority and society is better off because of it. It's very hard for me to criticize Axl because it's very obvious that he is at a point in his life where he has found happiness and I'm so happy for him because we all know how much he has struggled.

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I think that the best form of know if you can remember some that happened when you had 2 years old, would be a psychologist or psychiatrist consult. 

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11 hours ago, History2010 said:

His post is pretty tone-deaf in the modern era where suicide is such a huge epidemic. I've struggled with suicidal thoughts since my teenage years and myself and many others are really tired of being told to just suck it up. Mental health is becoming more and more of a priority and society is better off because of it. It's very hard for me to criticize Axl because it's very obvious that he is at a point in his life where he has found happiness and I'm so happy for him because we all know how much he has struggled.

See, here’s the problem, I wasn’t talking to you or about you, you have just made it about you with this post.  And the irony is I’m the one getting lectured about empathy and how you gotta see beyond yourself, you’ve literally made a choice to insert yourself into the equation here when all I’ve done is criticise people who abuse a system, do you see how you’ve basically illustrated what I was getting at?  

Yes, society is hugely better off for advancements in mental health care...the surrounding industry that has come up around it though and the way it is used by a great many to sell their coma pills and the way it is used by a further great many as an excuse to fuckin’ plank out and treat their living room like a fort is perhaps not so fuckin’ great and those people do a disservice to people who actually suffer from shit because there will come a day society will turn around and go ‘yknow what, fuck these fakin’ freeloaders’ and the plug’ll get pulled on the whole issue, true sufferers and bullshitters alike...and that will be a truly sad day.  Psychoanalysis is to me one of the most important medical advancement of the 20th Century.

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Posted (edited)

I do think Axl just wasn't mentally ready to take on with the tour. I have little doubt that he had an anxiety disorder or something of that sort. We have many accounts of others talking about his violent mood swings, anger management issues, his indecisiveness, etc. Didn't Duff say in his book as well that he could relate to Axl, cause he was getting panic attacks and Axl also had something? 

As a person who deals with an anxiety on a daily basis I do empathize with him, and I am so familiar with the misconception that people have of those suffering from it. The cause for the anxiety may seem so trifle to others, and it's so easy to call someone an ass or accuse of being lazy and simply needing a swift kick in the ass. It ain't so simple, though. If you suffer from an anxiety disorder and there's something really triggering it, you can't help it, you end up procrastinating, cause the feeling is so unpleasant on both psychological and physical levels, you just want it to stop, at least for a moment. Being a rockstar in the biggest band in the world has its fare share of pressure, I imagine; the need to live up to the reputation, having to perform songs no one has heard yet, his personal and love life in general, add in his mental state and then maybe the desire to get back at everyone, give it a stir and you have a perfect recipe for the havoc that was UYI years. 

The worst thing is that it's totally manageable with the help of professionals, yet he opted for regressive therapy, and then Yoda. I don't know much about regressive therapy, so I don't know how effective it can be, but I could never do it. Like someone above said, it's so easy to plant false memories, it would make me paranoid. And it isn't a stretch for me to imagine that someone would want to benefit from a rich troubled person by making him even more fucked up than he is, so he would spend more money on fixing things that didn't even exist. It's all a business in my eyes, but I don't know, I may be wrong. 

Edited by vikute91

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5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

See, here’s the problem, I wasn’t talking to you or about you, you have just made it about you with this post.  And the irony is I’m the one getting lectured about empathy and how you gotta see beyond yourself, you’ve literally made a choice to insert yourself into the equation here when all I’ve done is criticise people who abuse a system, do you see how you’ve basically illustrated what I was getting at?  

I'm not trying to make anything about me. I was just trying to give you firsthand testimonial about how it is a real struggle. I felt like you felt easy saying those things about Axl because he is someone that you will never get to know. But I'm someone who is right here who can talk to you about it.

 

5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Yes, society is hugely better off for advancements in mental health care...the surrounding industry that has come up around it though and the way it is used by a great many to sell their coma pills and the way it is used by a further great many as an excuse to fuckin’ plank out and treat their living room like a fort is perhaps not so fuckin’ great and those people do a disservice to people who actually suffer from shit because there will come a day society will turn around and go ‘yknow what, fuck these fakin’ freeloaders’ and the plug’ll get pulled on the whole issue, true sufferers and bullshitters alike...and that will be a truly sad day.  Psychoanalysis is to me one of the most important medical advancement of the 20th Century.

That very well could happen I suppose. But I think it's a minority of people who fake it and I very much think that Axl has been a legitimate victim of a hard childhood.

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Posted (edited)

Axl was in the wrong profession if he didnt want to tour

Edited by ZoSoRose

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2 hours ago, History2010 said:

I'm not trying to make anything about me. I was just trying to give you firsthand testimonial about how it is a real struggle. I felt like you felt easy saying those things about Axl because he is someone that you will never get to know. But I'm someone who is right here who can talk to you about it.

 

That very well could happen I suppose. But I think it's a minority of people who fake it and I very much think that Axl has been a legitimate victim of a hard childhood.

The thing with a lot of this shit is if you just accept a certain thing and just settle on it as an explanation for certain things then you'll never grow.  Everyones fond of the phrase its a daily struggle, the battle, the struggle with mental illness, as in living with it is the struggle, when really the struggle, as any good psychiatrist will tell you, its pushing against it.  You have to REALLY work and push the parameters of what is possible in life, if something is discomforting then you try to soldier through it, to see how far you can go with it.  Take kids for example, autism is a big thing these days, kids with learning difficulties, for the rest of that kids life the parents and the kid have to explore the parameters and push the boundaries of that kids ability, to see how much can actually be done within the bounds of that autism to make the person in question the best person they can possibly be, thats how they rise above their situation but there is an increasing number of people in society that just accept the illness as a reason for the shit and thats it, case closed, thats that persons life now forever.  The thing ain't the illness and learning about the illness, which of course has its place, the thing is discovering and stretching your capabilities within the confines of said illness.  None of this means that the illness is insignificant or easy to handle or an excuse, it just means that like with everything else in the world you have to fight for want of a better word, you have to work, you have to discover ways over and under and around a thing.  And that much is in everyones power.  

I have examples of this shit in my own family and my own day to day life and I've seen the differences, tangible palpable differences in the different methodologies employed in dealing with this shit.  There is a helluva lot to be said for biting down and standing up and fighting against this shit, however macho or unfashionably masculine that might come across.  

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23 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Axl was in the wrong profession if he didnt want to tour

That's a great point.  It happens in sports quite often, guys just quit because they don't have the passion.  Then people come down on them saying "how dare they disrespect the game like that, if I had his talent...blah blah blah".  But you don't have his talent so shut the hell up.  

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There is a great metal sludge interview from ~2010-2011 with Alan Niven iirc where he refutes Axl's "woe is me, nobody cared for my well being" story - as per Niven, Axl and the entire band wanted to get on the road in '91 and do the tour. The album was supposed to be released prior to the start of the tour and was delayed for the umpteenth time by Axl. Niven felt they'd lose too much momentum if the tour was pushed back. Is there anyone who was around in '91 that thinks Niven made the wrong call with starting the tour before the album released?

All that being said - Axl clearly was having mental health issues on that tour. But as Lenny pointed out, when exactly has this dude ever been ready for anything? He wasn't ready for the Chinese Democracy tour either and dumped Doug Goldstein for booking the tour "without his knowledge" (truly stretching credibility at this point). Let's keep in mind, this was after a 7 year lay-off for GnR. At some point you have to wonder if his problem was simply an inability to start or finish anything due to laziness/anxiety. Even Michael Jackson towards the end of his life had a better track record of finishing and releasing music.

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53 minutes ago, RONIN said:

There is a great metal sludge interview from ~2010-2011 with Alan Niven iirc where he refutes Axl's "woe is me, nobody cared for my well being" story - as per Niven, Axl and the entire band wanted to get on the road in '91 and do the tour. The album was supposed to be released prior to the start of the tour and was delayed for the umpteenth time by Axl. Niven felt they'd lose too much momentum if the tour was pushed back. Is there anyone who was around in '91 that thinks Niven made the wrong call with starting the tour before the album released?

All that being said - Axl clearly was having mental health issues on that tour. But as Lenny pointed out, when exactly has this dude ever been ready for anything? He wasn't ready for the Chinese Democracy tour either and dumped Doug Goldstein for booking the tour "without his knowledge" (truly stretching credibility at this point). Let's keep in mind, this was after a 7 year lay-off for GnR. At some point you have to wonder if his problem was simply an inability to start or finish anything due to laziness/anxiety. Even Michael Jackson towards the end of his life had a better track record of finishing and releasing music.

I definitely think it is a combination of Axl just being an awful, selfish perfectionist and having mental issues at the time that made it harder for him both to finish the record and tour professionally.

As for your question regarding Niven and starting the tour before the UYIs were released: I believe they should have waited until the records were released. Waited a few more months. They weren't ready to tour and the audience didn't know the songs. This greatly affected the first shows and reviews. On the other hand, if starting the tour worked to force Axl to finish the album, then it probably was a logical decision. 

he does have a habit of having to be forced to complete things, and then lash out as a result.

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2 hours ago, lame ass security said:

That's a great point.  It happens in sports quite often, guys just quit because they don't have the passion.  Then people come down on them saying "how dare they disrespect the game like that, if I had his talent...blah blah blah".  But you don't have his talent so shut the hell up.  

But here's the difference, Axl has never quit. If he was in a wrong profession or being a lazy asshole as some here say, he could have called it quits right after fulfilling contractual obligations of the album and a tour. He surely had enough money to do nothing till the end of his life. 

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3 hours ago, RONIN said:

There is a great metal sludge interview from ~2010-2011 with Alan Niven iirc where he refutes Axl's "woe is me, nobody cared for my well being" story - as per Niven, Axl and the entire band wanted to get on the road in '91 and do the tour. The album was supposed to be released prior to the start of the tour and was delayed for the umpteenth time by Axl. Niven felt they'd lose too much momentum if the tour was pushed back. Is there anyone who was around in '91 that thinks Niven made the wrong call with starting the tour before the album released?

All that being said - Axl clearly was having mental health issues on that tour. But as Lenny pointed out, when exactly has this dude ever been ready for anything? He wasn't ready for the Chinese Democracy tour either and dumped Doug Goldstein for booking the tour "without his knowledge" (truly stretching credibility at this point). Let's keep in mind, this was after a 7 year lay-off for GnR. At some point you have to wonder if his problem was simply an inability to start or finish anything due to laziness/anxiety. Even Michael Jackson towards the end of his life had a better track record of finishing and releasing music.

who was around in '91 that thinks Niven made the wrong call with starting the tour before the album released?

to answer ,  not me otherwise those theatre shows would not have happened. I thought that was a smart decision to do them, credit to niven if it was him coming up with that idea. At one of them they played for 3 hours and i dont think anyone was holding a gun to axls head t ok do a 3 hour show. Plus i remember reading interviews where axl was really pushing these albums to come out. Never knew he was the holdup for those!😄

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Also keep in mind that a lot of the early UYI shows were much more energetic performingwise than the later shows. Sometimes pressure got out the best of Axl. We've got killer rants by him during that time.

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Axl: "If we didn't have an album out right now, I wouldn't be on tour, I wouldn't have chosen to take on that particular responsibility at this time. But I didn't really have a choice, especially if I want to keep my career going. I would've liked to be more together emotionally and mentally before this tour. Part of the job of being in Guns N' Roses is coming onstage and being superhuman. We've supposed to rise above the energy in the crowd, rise above whatever bad may have happened that day, rise above whatever is in your head, while at the same time trying to rise above the damage in your own life" [RIP, September 1992].

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Yet those shows were the best shows they did on the Illusion tour. 

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It's funny Axl thinks that having to do your job while you're emotionally unstable is a "superhuman" quality :lol:

Rising above whatever bad may have happened that day, rising above whatever is in your head, your boss head, your clients head, your customer heads, your family's BS....yeah, Axl, most people do that every single day and they will never earn the 1% of what you earned.

It is bothersome re-reading his old shit. The guy was living in a cloud of mental farts. Really.

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@Len Cnut Tough guy eh? *puts you in a headlock* cook me some fuckin' eggs and don't forget the eggcups! :lol:

Nah, I know what you're saying mate. But the way you're saying it I'm not surprised if some perceive it the way they are. 

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1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

@Len Cnut Tough guy eh? *puts you in a headlock* cook me some fuckin' eggs and don't forget the eggcups! :lol:

Nah, I know what you're saying mate. But the way you're saying it I'm not surprised if some perceive it the way they are. 

They'll defend Rose like a maiden defending her chastity!

I'm surprised Len got away so lightly. I have been pelted with abuse for far less than saying Rose basically fabricated that he was bummed as a kid. Few ''innits'' will do that. 

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