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What was Offsrpings beef with GnR?

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3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Silverchair were way too metal at first to be Nirvana in pyjamas. The only comparison was that they were a threesome and the singer had shoulder length unwashed blonde hair like Kurt. 

Frogstomp was metal??

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Just now, DK6 said:

Frogstomp was metal??

Not all of the songs, but there are enough metal influences to be found. Freakshow is even more metal. With Neon Ballroom they departed from that sound and also became a much better band.

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14 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Not all of the songs, but there are enough metal influences to be found. Freakshow is even more metal. With Neon Ballroom they departed from that sound and also became a much better band.

Yeah I agree with that - were a much better band when they found their own sound.

Diorama is a brilliant album in my opinion. 

Not that I'm a big Silverchair fan - or Nirvana for that matter. 

Alice in Chains were my favourite from that era - I think they were definitely more metal than grunge.

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1 minute ago, DK6 said:

Yeah I agree with that - were a much better band when they found their own sound.

Diorama is a brilliant album in my opinion. 

Not that I'm a big Silverchair fan - or Nirvana for that matter. 

Alice in Chains were my favourite from that era - I think they were definitely more metal than grunge.

AIC are metal, but that's the point... bands from that area all sounded different, I don't think anyone can explain what ''grunge'' is. 

And yes, Diorama is brilliant, hard to believe that guy was so young when he wrote such complexed songs. And now he's doing RnB/dance crap, such a shame!

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On 3/23/2019 at 1:43 AM, DeadSlash said:

Does anyone know?  There was the whole thing when they considered naming their album "Chinese Democracy You snooze you lose."  But long before that, in the limewire days, I had downloaded a bootleg of The Offspring where Dexter teased a cover, Noodles played the opening riff of SCOM, (to an enormous pop, fyi) and Dexter was like "Fuck that, they suck!" This is years before the Snooze you lose thing.

 

If this needs to be moved to a different sub-forum, I'm sorry.

Well. Joke's on them. Time has rendered The Offspring as an anecdotal footnote in the 1990s musical landscape. They are widely known for their trash hit "Pretty Fly for a White Guy."

 

I was a huge Offspring fan back in the day. They were just jumping on the Axl-hating bandwagon that Cobain was on all those years' prior. It's the classic pro wrestling move. Trying to call out the top name to make a name for yourself.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/25/2019 at 6:26 AM, DieselDaisy said:

At that time Stone Roses, Sugercubes, Bleach era Nirvana (before they blew up too big and started to annoy everyone), Sonic Youth, Happy Mondays, etc. 

I got into Guns 1991ish and - and I'm really not exonerating myself here as I was a fan of Guns and not some of the ''cool'' bands - it was like you had leprosy haha. There was the early rave scene also.

Rose had his little kegs on and Slash soloing on cliff tops and million pound music videos and brass bands and epic ballads. No one considered this cool haha. It was like Led Zeppelin circa 1976. The cool kids were watching Johnny Rotten.  

You're misremembering and allowing rewritten history to tell the tale. Guns N' Roses were one of the biggest and coolest rock bands from when AfD blew up till 1993 when their tour ended. They had their haters, like Kurt Cobain, who were just jealous while simultaneously putting our their own version of polished, pop rock (Nevermind).

Guns N' Roses stopped mattering to the mainstream public when the band went on hiatus and turned away from the public eye. Grunge didn't kill GNR. Grunge was as big of a fad as hair metal.

GNR is the band that really killed hair metal. They were along that lineage of Stones/Aerosmith/Hanoi Rocks. But they blended all their styles together. Duff was punk. Slash was classic rock. Axl was into Elton John and Queen. ETC.

Edit: I got into rock music in the early '90s and Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant and other hair bands were left in the path of destruction laid out by GNR. I don't get how people forget that they blew up on the strip but blew PAST all the hair bands. Bands like Nirvana who ridiculed GNR for the pomp and circumstance ... I saw Foo Fighters last year at Wrigley Field. They did a straight up GNR-style stadium show. Two-plus hours. Backup singers, solos, etc. 

Edited by GnR Chris
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

You're misremembering and allowing rewritten history to tell the tale. Guns N' Roses were one of the biggest and coolest rock bands from when AfD blew up till 1993 when their tour ended. They had their haters, like Kurt Cobain, who were just jealous while simultaneously putting our their own version of polished, pop rock (Nevermind).

Guns N' Roses stopped mattering to the mainstream public when the band went on hiatus and turned away from the public eye. Grunge didn't kill GNR. Grunge was as big of a fad as hair metal.

GNR is the band that really killed hair metal. They were along that lineage of Stones/Aerosmith/Hanoi Rocks. But they blended all their styles together. Duff was punk. Slash was classic rock. Axl was into Elton John and Queen. ETC.

Edit: I got into rock music in the early '90s and Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant and other hair bands were left in the path of destruction laid out by GNR. I don't get how people forget that they blew up on the strip but blew PAST all the hair bands. Bands like Nirvana who ridiculed GNR for the pomp and circumstance ... I saw Foo Fighters last year at Wrigley Field. They did a straight up GNR-style stadium show. Two-plus hours. Backup singers, solos, etc. 

Per your edit, i don't really lump Motley Crue in with bands like Poison or Warrant.  They're much closer to Guns than to most other hair bands, imo.

Edited by lame ass security
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On 26/03/2019 at 11:34 PM, DK6 said:

Silverchair = Nirvana in Pyjamas.

That is why they were called grunge!

I don't even know what grunge means!

 

When they came out with Freak they were definitely doing the grunge and that was why they were signed. Yeah as they progressed they went more experimental like the late 90s STP (sour girl, days if the week etc) greatest view was a good song, so is 'Freak'. They were definitely grunge, at least in the beginning.

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14 hours ago, lame ass security said:

Per your edit, i don't really lump Motley Crue in with bands like Poison or Warrant.  They're much closer to Guns than to most other hair bands, imo.

I'd agree with this. 

To be fair though, some if those 80s metal bands did write some great music, RATT for example, amazing guitar players!

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3 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

When they came out with Freak they were definitely doing the grunge and that was why they were signed. Yeah as they progressed they went more experimental like the late 90s STP (sour girl, days if the week etc) greatest view was a good song, so is 'Freak'. They were definitely grunge, at least in the beginning.

What is grunge?

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50 minutes ago, EvanG said:

What is grunge?

An old turn of the century (20th) term for raggedy or shabby that was later adopted in Seattle as a blanket term for a bunch of lads that liked to play punk influenced distortion heavy rock music whilst looking mildly dejected.

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1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

I'd agree with this. 

To be fair though, some if those 80s metal bands did write some great music, RATT for example, amazing guitar players!

No doubt about that, Ratt is a great example.  Warren De Martini was/is a great guitarist.  And I liked Pearcy's vocals also.

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

An old turn of the century (20th) term for raggedy or shabby that was later adopted in Seattle as a blanket term for a bunch of lads that liked to play punk influenced distortion heavy rock music whilst looking mildly dejected.

Thanks, that's one of the best definitions I've read so far. But then I guess Silverchair weren't grunge because they're from Newcastle, Australia.

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3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

When they came out with Freak they were definitely doing the grunge and that was why they were signed. Yeah as they progressed they went more experimental like the late 90s STP (sour girl, days if the week etc) greatest view was a good song, so is 'Freak'. They were definitely grunge, at least in the beginning.

Sour Girl, man it's been a long time since I've thought about that one.  I really liked the song and the vid was great.  Sarah Michelle Gellar was smokin.

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4 hours ago, lame ass security said:

Sour Girl, man it's been a long time since I've thought about that one.  I really liked the song and the vid was great.  Sarah Michelle Gellar was smokin.

That she was and I'm sure still is ...if you're reading this Sarah, give me a call 😉

7 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

An old turn of the century (20th) term for raggedy or shabby that was later adopted in Seattle as a blanket term for a bunch of lads that liked to play punk influenced distortion heavy rock music whilst looking mildly dejected.

Couldn't have put it any better! Looking Mildy dejected! Fantastic!

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12 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Couldn't have put it any better! Looking Mildy dejected! Fantastic!

As long as we agree that Silverchair weren't grunge, we're good!

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1 hour ago, EvanG said:

As long as we agree that Silverchair weren't grunge, we're good!

Grunge copyists perhaps?  I dunno, its a weird area, are the people who are fans of a thing and want to make that kind of music and go out and do so less of that ouevre than than the originators?  I mean the shit has to move forward somehow right?  I quite liked a few songs off their first album.  Wasn't there some big controversy where someone shot a cop or their school or something and was allegedly inspired by Israels Son off the first album?  That kinda thing always made me sit up and take notice, shows the power of scandal, I had to check that album out after that.

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Grunge copyists perhaps?  I dunno, its a weird area, are the people who are fans of a thing and want to make that kind of music and go out and do so less of that ouevre than than the originators?  I mean the shit has to move forward somehow right?  I quite liked a few songs off their first album.  Wasn't there some big controversy where someone shot a cop or their school or something and was allegedly inspired by Israels Son off the first album?  That kinda thing always made me sit up and take notice, shows the power of scandal, I had to check that album out after that.

The point I am trying to make is that grunge isn't a musical genre, it's a label. You can say a band is metal, punk, or more hardrock, but saying they are grunge doesn't make sense. Silverchair were influenced by a lot of 70's bands like Black Sabbath, had they released their first record before the grunge explosion, people would have never labelled them as a grunge band.

Their first two records were fun, but nothing special, but they were teenagers at the time. It wasn't until the third record that the singer really found his voice and started writing really good songs.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, EvanG said:

The point I am trying to make is that grunge isn't a musical genre, it's a label. You can say a band is metal, punk, or more hardrock, but saying they are grunge doesn't make sense. Silverchair were influenced by a lot of 70's bands like Black Sabbath, had they released their first record before the grunge explosion, people would have never labelled them as a grunge band.

Well thats to be taken for granted, the label has to exist in the public conciousness before it becomes labelled something, thats not to say its not a genre without the attendant genre conventions.  A genre defines a category or a particular style and grunge has a specific sort of style.  I suppose I see your point in a way because you have to add a lot of non-musical elements to correctly differentiate.  By that standard though rock n roll ain't a genre, its just a sort of blues.  Punk ain't a genre.  All that you would be left with is Blues and Jazz.  Soul ain't a genre either.  Disco is just a kind of beat.  Metal wouldn't be a genre either. 

Edited by Len Cnut

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3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Well thats to be taken for granted, the label has to exist in the public conciousness before it becomes labelled something, thats not to say its not a genre without the attendant genre conventions.  A genre defines a category or a particular style and grunge has a specific sort of style.  I suppose I see your point in a way because you have to add a lot of non-musical elements to correctly differentiate.  By that standard though rock n roll ain't a genre, its just a sort of blues.  Punk ain't a genre.  All that you would be left with is Blues and Jazz.  Soul ain't a genre either.  Disco is just a kind of beat.  Metal wouldn't be a genre either. 

But with musical genres you can specify why a band is metal or blues or punk. I still don't know what makes a band ''grunge''. When you look at the most successful bands from the grunge era, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden, of course there are similarities, they are all making rock music, but there are many differences as well... if you want to put that spin on it, then any rock band can be called grunge. Green Day and The Offspring got mainstream success right after the grunge explosion but they were called punk, now that's a whole different discussion whether that is accurate or not, but they could have just as easily been called ''grunge''. If they came from the Seattle-area, that's probably exactly what would have happened.

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15 minutes ago, EvanG said:

But with musical genres you can specify why a band is metal or blues or punk. I still don't know what makes a band ''grunge''. When you look at the most successful bands from the grunge era, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden, of course there are similarities, they are all making rock music, but there are many differences as well... if you want to put that spin on it, then any rock band can be called grunge. Green Day and The Offspring got mainstream success right after the grunge explosion but they were called punk, now that's a whole different discussion whether that is accurate or not, but they could have just as easily been called ''grunge''. If they came from the Seattle-area, that's probably exactly what would have happened.

What makes a band metal then?  Whats the difference between say, Speed Metal and Thrash and the accepted definition of cookie cutter punk? 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

What makes a band metal then?  Whats the difference between say, Speed Metal and Thrash and the accepted definition of cookie cutter punk? 

To me metal is lots of palm muting and heavy riffs. When I listen to an early Metallica record I know I'm listening to metal and not punk. I'm not good at describing all the sub-genres, but I'm sure a real metalhead has no problems with that. Punk is really fast songs, mainly power chords, and melody. Metal is often not very melodic. I don't think I have to explain how blues sounds like. So I can specify those genres more or less, with grunge not so much.

Edited by EvanG

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11 minutes ago, EvanG said:

To me metal is lots of palm muting and heavy riffs. When I listen to an early Metallica record I know I'm listening to metal and not punk. I'm not good at describing all the sub-genres, but I'm sure a real metalhead has no problems with that. Punk is really fast songs, mainly power chords, and melody. Metal is often not very melodic. I don't think I have to explain how blues sound like. So I can specify those genres more or less, with grunge not so much.

Yeah, I guess I see your point.  And with grunge you kinda have the reference point but without it you would kinda struggle.  But then that works without about everything else too.  To be Mudhoney exemplify the grunge sound.  The thing genres is they ain't really strict rules, at least with some genres.  I could name three punk bands and each one of those motherfuckers would sound wildly different.

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