EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I wouldn't say its a far cry from the above mentioned. Its about as atypical as you can get, its in the territory of 'shall I compare thee to a summers day', which is about as typical as you can get. Not from Shakespeare but rather from the fact that he'd perhaps the famous playwright/poet in the history and set in place a lot of the conventions in that particular field. Which is not to say he's the creator of the love poem but rather the author of the most well known works. They're all sappy, and that's fine, I just prefer Axl's attempt in SCOM more than Izzy's attempt in Think About You and Patience for reasons I stated. I don't understand why it's hard to admit that those two Izzy songs are very sappy... there's no crime in writing sappy lyrics, some people even prefer it. Well, great. In above post I quoted Izzy lyrics that could have come straight out of Grease... in fact some lines are even the same if memory serves... Edited March 28, 2019 by EvanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: You've never heard Baby Love by The Supremes I assumed Soul was being facetious so didn't reply to that. At least I hope he was being facetious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: I wouldn't say so. It is basically of the same ilk. I won't try to make it out like SCOM is a lyrical masterpiece, at all, yet I still think it is better than the average happy sappy love song. And especially much better than those lyrics you posted which is a dime a dozen and found in just about any innovative pop lyric . There is emotional depth to SCOM, it isn't so much about love as about his childhood and how his love interest (Erin Everly) reminds him of all that is good but also the bad. It is about childhood innocence (when he talks about the blue skies which literally was one of Axl's first memories), yet now when he looks back at this time he'd "probably break down and cry", indicating something went wrong somewhere. Furthermore, he talks about how her hair reminds him of a "warm, safe place" where he'd been trying to hide as a child ("where as a child I'd hide") to escape something ("and pray or the thunder and the rain to quietly pass me by"). This is likely the abuse he suffered as a child, and explains why his memories of his childhood is so bittersweet. I think it works pretty good, and just the level of ambition runs circles round most love songs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: I assumed Soul was being facetious so didn't reply to that. At least I hope he was being facetious! You never know with these thick necked nordic types, GnR is probably a stretch for them, Slayer and Rammstein are the go-to’s generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: You've never heard Baby Love by The Supremes, what fuckin' planet are you from?! I am sure I have. I actually think I know how it goes. Not because of the sheer brilliance of the lyrics, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I think this kind of love lyrics can be good when they achieve to express a believable innocence and fragility, in combination with the music and the delivery. The girl bands of the 60s had that. Sweet Child O' Mine has that, November Rain also; Patience too (although I used to not to like it much) - I think the music and Axl's vocals help. Think About You doesn't, imho, as a pure love song and not as a metaphor for a drugs love song either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I assumed Soul was being facetious so didn't reply to that. At least I hope he was being facetious! I was joking about it being a Britney Spears song, because I assumed it must have been from someone more credible to you artsy types, yet the lyrics could have been written by any hormonal teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, SoulMonster said: There is emotional depth to SCOM There is more emotional depth in my toilet basin. I love Sweet Child O' Mine but lyrically it is no deeper than Patience or Baby Love really. If you want a genuinely emotionally deep love song I suggest you try Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands by Dylan. ''With her deck of cards missing the Jack and the Ace'': sheer poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I am sure I have. I actually think I know how it goes. Not because of the sheer brilliance of the lyrics, though It begs the question, what constitutes a brilliant lyric? I mean...you can be direct and to the point and be brilliant too right? As I was saying earlier all this sappy/non-sappy stuff is a load of bollocks, these things are designed to be sung not read and your response to them is more to do with the syrupy tones of Diana Ross and how they make you feel, same goes for Axl and SCOM, its a brilliant song and brilliant lyrics because their brilliance is predicated on their context i.e. comin' out of ol' ginger bollockses gob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I am sure I have. I actually think I know how it goes. Not because of the sheer brilliance of the lyrics, though He wasn't being facetious!! My gawd, Soul has never heard Baby Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, DieselDaisy said: There is more emotional depth in my toilet basin. I love Sweet Child O' Mine but lyrically it is no deeper than Patience or Baby Love really. Just the fact that SCOM uses his love interest as a muse to describe his childhood immediately and automatically put it on another level that more simpler love songs that do nothing but just rave about being in love and how they can't live without their love interest. It is quite simply an emotionally much more complex song. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Blackstar said: I think the music and Axl's vocals help. It does, Think About You is a fantastic song. It took me a long time to realize that I really don't care for the lyrics. One can still enjoy a song if the melody and music are great. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: He wasn't being facetious!! My gawd, Soul has never heard Baby Love. I dunno why but I read that in Harold Steptoes voice Perhaps it was the 'my gawd'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: It begs the question, what constitutes a brilliant lyric? When I judge a lyric I look at it separately from the music, like a poem. Because as soon as you mix these up you are really judging the music and not just the lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Just the fact that SCOM uses his love interest as a muse to describe his childhood immediately and automatically put it on another level that more simpler love songs that do nothing but just rave about being in love and how they can't live without their love interest. It is quite simply an emotionally much more complex song. That is really really REALLY reaching 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: He wasn't being facetious!! My gawd, Soul has never heard Baby Love. As I said, "I am sure I have" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: When I judge a lyric I look at it separately from the music, like a poem. Because as soon as you mix these up you are really judging the music and not just the lyrics. See I think on that basis 99.9% rock lyrics are shit, they are not designed to be read, they are designed to be heard with musical accompaniment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Len Cnut said: That is really really REALLY reaching You can't deny a large portion of the lyrics is about his childhood, and how childhood memories make him cry, and later that he compares her hair as a safety place he had as a child to escape "thunder and rain". Or do you seriously think he is talking about escaping bad weather and how he cries when he thinks about how he didn't managed to escape and got all drenched? 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: See I think on that basis 99.9% rock lyrics are shit, they are not designed to be read, they are designed to be heard with musical accompaniment. Absolutely. Fortunately, in my opinion, Axl had larger aspirations and occasionally succeeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) I always thought men hiding under their girlfriend’s hair from childhood memories is somewhat questionable. Just saying... Edited March 28, 2019 by Tori72 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: See I think on that basis 99.9% rock lyrics are shit, they are not designed to be read, they are designed to be heard with musical accompaniment. Go listen to your Green Day, punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: You can't deny a large portion of the lyrics is about his childhood, and how childhood memories make him cry, and later that he compares her hair as a safety place he had as a child to escape "thunder and rain". Or do you seriously think he is talking about escaping bad weather and how he cries when he thinks about how he didn't managed to escape and got all drenched? Relating a feeling of comfort back to ones childhood is in no way a complex poetic proposition. Its very standard. GCSE standard. 12 minutes ago, EvanG said: Go listen to your Green Day, punk. Its a fact, if you think rock lyrics stand up to actual poetry or are even meant to then, with the greatest of respect, you should perhaps consider further education Edited March 28, 2019 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, allwaystired said: I had absolutely no idea that was the case! Haha- fair enough! I have a memory that BBF used to play it too. Am I remembering things wrong there? Bumble did the Pink Panther theme along with one of his solo tunes normally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Len Cnut said: Relating a feeling of comfort back to ones childhood is in no way a complex poetic proposition. Its very standard. GCSE standard. Still already there the song becomes more complex than most sappy love songs that just go on and on about how much they are in love. And in addition comes the cryptic references to how something was bad in his childhood that aren't really lyrically resolved, although it is strengthened when he discussed having to flee and hide as a child. Again, this song does two thing, both rave about his girlfriend BUT also tell a story about his life, in allegories. So this is much more complex than most people think, and a lot more complex than most sappy love songs. But again, don't interpret this as me thinking it is a lyrically masterpiece, just much more than "another simple love song". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Its a fact, if you think rock lyrics stand up to actual poetry or are even meant to then, with the greatest of respect, you should perhaps consider further education I already reacted to this yesterday. I know plenty of rock lyrics that are enjoyable to read even without the music. (of course it's better with music, because they are SONG LYRICS not real poetry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Still already there the song becomes more complex than most sappy love songs that just go on and on about how much they are in love. And in addition comes the cryptic references to how something was bad in his childhood that aren't really lyrically resolved, although it is strengthened when he discussed having to flee and hide as a child. Again, this song does two thing, both rave about his girlfriend BUT also tell a story about his life, in allegories. So this is much more complex than most people think, and a lot more complex than most sappy love songs. But again, don't interpret this as me thinking it is a lyrically masterpiece, just much more than "another simple love song". Again, none of the above is really much more complex than any number of very basic very cliched love songs. Its a departure from just going 'i love you i love you i love you i cant live without you' but how many love songs are REALLY that basic? I could sit here and wrangle more complexity out of I Wannabe Your Dog by The Stooges and I wouldn't call that poetically complex. Edited March 28, 2019 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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