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Blackstar

Slash talks about Nirvana in Kerrang's tribute feature

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Its kinda overstating the importance of GnR in the equation to say they were set up as specifically anti-Guns n Roses, I always took it as like anti the old guard, of which Guns were a part.  Quite frankly most of it is journalistic waffle and fans over-hyping what was a minor skirmish.  If you quantify every comment Guns ever made about Nirvana or vice versa you'd probably struggle to fill an A4 sheet of paper.

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41 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its kinda overstating the importance of GnR in the equation to say they were set up as specifically anti-Guns n Roses, I always took it as like anti the old guard, of which Guns were a part.  

Who were the other bands of the "old guard" then, though? Skid Row? Some of the 80s hair bands were still selling records, but basically that thing was already fading by the time the Seattle bands became successful. The only really big band of that generation at the time was Guns N' Roses, unless we include acts like U2 and Bruce Springsteen, too.

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Posted (edited)

What about Aerosmith? 

Edited by EvanG
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On Nirvana's 'Live Tonight: Sold Out' dvd, there is a reporter quoting something to the likes of "The Guns N' Roses that's ok to like".

I've always liked Nirvana (Especially 'In Utero') and feel the whole grudge between bands was fucking stupid.

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I think it was kinda Nirvana's shtick to go against everything they didn't like, they even talked shit about Pearl Jam, and Axl was so on edge back then, he immediately had to give a respond. Pretty much high school bullshit really.

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6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

What about Aerosmith? 

Aerosmith were 70s veterans with a successful comeback. They were considered older, classic rock generation. I think they weren't affected by the whole "anti"-thing.

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4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Aerosmith were 70s veterans with a successful comeback. They were considered older, classic rock generation. I think they weren't affected by the whole "anti"-thing.

True, Cobain liked Aerosmith, they were one of his first (big) rock concerts, but because you said unless we include Springsteen and U2, who both weren't affected by the anti thing either I believe, but I get your point.

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I think the thing that always annoyed me about it was that Axl seemed to treat Nirvana with genuine good faith, wanted to put on gigs with them etc. and it seemed like Cobain kinda threw that good will back in his face.

I mean, I don't like Bon Jovi, but if Jon Bon Jovi were to ever call me up and tell me he was a big fan of my music ( :lol: ) I wouldn't tell him to fuck off.

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53 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Who were the other bands of the "old guard" then, though? Skid Row? Some of the 80s hair bands were still selling records, but basically that thing was already fading by the time the Seattle bands became successful. The only really big band of that generation at the time was Guns N' Roses, unless we include acts like U2 and Bruce Springsteen, too.

But there was a whole time where they were coming up where they had those bands in mind, even though they were fading from success, they were still reflective of the old guard.  Nirvana were caning Extreme in an interview in 93 even.

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2 minutes ago, Graeme said:

I think the thing that always annoyed me about it was that Axl seemed to treat Nirvana with genuine good faith, wanted to put on gigs with them etc. and it seemed like Cobain kinda threw that good will back in his face.

I mean, I don't like Bon Jovi, but if Jon Bon Jovi were to ever call me up and tell me he was a big fan of my music ( :lol: ) I wouldn't tell him to fuck off.

Yeah, but like I was saying... Nirvana didn't shy away from saying which bands they liked and which bands they didn't like. They kinda came with this punk attitude, going against establishment and that is kinda what GnR was at the time. And on top of that, Kurt considered himself a feminist, and Axl was, well, more the opposite, so it was easy to talk shit about them and turn down their offer to tour with them. But then again, by 1992 Kurt didn't want to tour at all anymore, they were the biggest band on the planet and so Cobain locked himself away with Courtney in a small apartment in LA for many months to shoot dope and paint all day.

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5 minutes ago, Graeme said:

I think the thing that always annoyed me about it was that Axl seemed to treat Nirvana with genuine good faith, wanted to put on gigs with them etc. and it seemed like Cobain kinda threw that good will back in his face.

Axl is a very polarizing character though and when your like that people feel that being matey with you reflects perhaps co-signing or sharing some of his more robust views on life and society...and Kurt being from something of a redneck background perhaps wanted to distance himself from that sort of fella.  For example, would you like to get your photo taken with Nick Griffin or perhaps be quoted in the papers as being congratulatory about his cooking show? :lol:

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I swear when I first started following Guns it was kinda a common notion that Guns themselves killed the old guard? That Guns killed hair metal. And opened the door for music as ferocious and raw as many of the grunge bands were.

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Kurt constantly drew lines in the sand. He was emphatic about what was or wasn't tolerable within a sub-culture, because he had always been part of a sub-culture.

Obviously, he thought someone was going to take away his hipster card and like any good hipster, told the "cool" kids off before he could be accused of being one.

 

It was a problem he had more and more trouble reconciling as Nirvana got more popular. He cringed at the idea of being "popular."

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4 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

He cringed at the idea of being "popular."

But at the same time he wanted Nirvana to be huge, he hated the fact that Pearl Jam's second record sold better than In Utero in the first week upon release. That was the contradictive part of the man's personality. He felt the punk rock guilt of not wanting to be too successful and only playing small clubs, yet at the same time he wanted his band to be really big.

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Yeah he was tortured in that respect. 

Like a woman who wants it both ways; who wants to dress provocatively but doesn't want to feel eyes lusting after her...

I had heard that his prerogative with In Utero was to make an album that challenged his fans and weed out the ones that hung on the pop sensibilities of Nevermind. Still, when the album was in its mixing stages, he started getting antsy and thought maybe he should ask Butch Vig to step in and bring the songs to a more commercial edge. He see-sawed like that and that sort of thing must have been very confusing and painful.

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9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

But there was a whole time where they were coming up where they had those bands in mind, even though they were fading from success, they were still reflective of the old guard.  Nirvana were caning Extreme in an interview in 93 even.

Extreme's success was almost contemporary with Nirvana's. Nirvana were dissing many of the new bands that came at the same time as them, even "alternative" ones.

16 minutes ago, EvanG said:

But at the same time he wanted Nirvana to be huge, he hated the fact that Pearl Jam's second record sold better than In Utero in the first week upon release. That was the contradictive part of the man's personality.

Yeah, he was even finding "excuses" for mainstream exposure, like that Rolling Stone was corporate but had good political views or that MTV was progressive, etc.

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1 minute ago, appetite4illusions said:

Yeah he was tortured in that respect. 

Like a woman who wants it both ways; who wants to dress provocatively but doesn't want to feel eyes lusting after her...

I had heard that his prerogative with In Utero was to make an album that challenged his fans and weed out the ones that hung on the pop sensibilities of Nevermind. Still, when the album was in its mixing stages, he started getting antsy and thought maybe he should ask Butch Vig to step in and bring the songs to a more commercial edge. He see-sawed like that and that sort of thing must have been very confusing and painful.

Exactly. He wanted to alienate a lot of fans with In Utero, especially the ''jocks'' that liked Nevermind. But then the record company wasn't too happy with the sound and like you said, he got antsy, so they hired Scott Litt (R.E.M.) to remix a few songs, which Steve Albini, the producer, wasn't too happy with. And they did a lot of promotion for that record... even made a tv commercial for it!

But yes, all those contradictions were probably partly the reason for his insanity.

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In the  Goldberg book about Kurt Cobain , he hint that KC was a bit poser. He ask to Courtny Love if Kurt was ambitious guy, and she respond yes, but Kurt hide it.

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I get Kurt Cobain's animus toward Axl - Axl was a bit of a cunt that seemed to be universally disliked by his contemporaries (Cobain, Hetfield, Patton), He wrote One In A Million, Kurt maybe thought Axl was attempting to jump on the alternative bandwagon (he was). Plus GNR was seen as a lame band by the alternative crowd and they were proving that as they started to become a parody of themselves - GIMMIE SOME REGGAE!!!

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I find it hard to believe that the alternative bands could slag GN’R when it came to AFD.

The spirit of that album was so raw and undeniable, even if they disliked the songs, you couldn’t deny the legitimacy of it. It was the only authentic rock album of the whole 80s along with “back in black.”

Whether it be Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam or AiC, any and every one of those bands would be pleased to have an album as righteous and influential.

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4 hours ago, Ratam said:

In the  Goldberg book about Kurt Cobain , he hint that KC was a bit poser. He ask to Courtny Love if Kurt was ambitious guy, and she respond yes, but Kurt hide it.

Honestly, every musician is a poser, some more than others.  You have to be, it's just the way it is.  Elvis, Morrison, Mercury, Jagger, Morrisey, Lydon, Springsteen, Bono, Axl, Cobain, even someone like Roy Orbison was.  With the exception of Trixter, now those guys were as real as it gets.

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31 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

Honestly, every musician is a poser, some more than others.  You have to be, it's just the way it is.  Elvis, Morrison, Mercury, Jagger, Morrisey, Lydon, Springsteen, Bono, Axl, Cobain, even someone like Roy Orbison was.  With the exception of Trixter, now those guys were as real as it gets.

This is right, but my point is that Kurt showed a image isn't was many real, own Courtney hind it.

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4 minutes ago, Ratam said:

This is right, but my point is that Kurt showed a image isn't was many real, own Courtney hind it.

He was definitely conflicted.  I also think that Cobain felt that a true artist should be conflicted, troubled, or tortured.  This isn't anything new, a lot of artists have shared this mentality.  Then if they don't feel those things they think that they're not being real somehow.  Then they might create it through some very unhealthy ways.

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6 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

He was definitely conflicted.  I also think that Cobain felt that a true artist should be conflicted, troubled, or tortured.  This isn't anything new, a lot of artists have shared this mentality.  Then if they don't feel those things they think that they're not being real somehow.  Then they might create it through some very unhealthy ways.

My opinion about Cobain is either he isn't was less poser that Axl was ,neither less real. I think have people that exaggerate too much his supposed rebelliousness. The press collaborate much to create images about artists.

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