Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on fire

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Graeme said:

Do you think having millions of tonnes of plastic floating around is a fine state of affairs?

Well it isn't good but as a historian who has a penchant for old architecture I'm inherently going to see Notre-Dame as the superior financial cause

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, Graeme said:

Do you think having millions of tonnes of plastic floating around is a fine state of affairs?

For somebody with such a massive anti EU hate boner because of the decline of the UK fishing industry you'd expect @DieselDaisy to have a little more concern about such things.

[ZoSoRose]

10 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

To put it in perspective (for those that are struggling with that), to the French it's no different than how Americans would feel if the Statue of liberty was destroyed or to the British if Big Ben was destroyed. 

As a Catholic I am also devastated by this, even more so that it happened during Holy Week. Having said that, the French must really be mourning today.

I think this is way worse than the Statue of Liberty. Its way older and an engineering marvel. Its historical importance and hat it represents for human achievement is awesome. I'm relieved more of Notre Dame is intact than was thought. They can rebuild it with time

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

For somebody with such a massive anti EU hate boner because of the decline of the UK fishing industry you'd expect @DieselDaisy to have a little more concern about such things.

I think Europeans were building wonderful buildings well in advance of the creation of the EU somehow haha! I mean this is the EU's idea of a building,

Spoiler

Truly awful.

 

[ZoSoRose]

I also agree with posters who say they believe people should put more stock into social and environmental issues. Sure, it would be nice if billionaires pledged more money to important caused and people were more aware of them.

That being said, its also important to feel the loss over something like this. I'm not even very religious, if at all, but I completely understand why a building like this is so important. There arent many things like it left. Religious importance aside, its a museum, a monument to human achievement, a piece of art, it's history and an icon. Its important to acknowledge human history and achievement imo.

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I think this is way worse than the Statue of Liberty. Its way older and an engineering marvel. Its historical importance and hat it represents for human achievement is awesome. I'm relieved more of Notre Dame is intact than was thought. They can rebuild it with time

Yes, and Big Ben is as recent as 1859. A better British analogy would be Westminster Abbey. 

[ZoSoRose]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Yes, and Big Ben is as recent as 1859. A better British analogy would be Westminster Abbey. 

And to be clear, losing the SoL or Big Ben would also be horrible. 

Monuments, art, and buildings can be extremely important imo. 

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I think Europeans were building wonderful buildings well in advance of the creation of the EU somehow haha! I mean this is the EU's idea of a building,

  Hide contents

Truly awful.

 

I've actually got a picture of me (in my younger and more foolish days) standing next to that and giving it the finger!  

Assuming it's the European Parliament building yes?

[Dazey]

5 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I also agree with posters who say they believe people should put more stock into social and environmental issues. Sure, it would be nice if billionaires pledged more money to important caused and people were more aware of them.

That being said, its also important to feel the loss over something like this. I'm not even very religious, if at all, but I completely understand why a building like this is so important. There arent many things like it left. Religious importance aside, its a museum, a monument to human achievement, a piece of art, it's history and an icon. Its important to acknowledge human history and achievement imo.

Can't the Pope just pay for it? I mean his legal bills for all the kiddy fiddlers can't be THAT much can they?

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I've actually got a picture of me (in my younger and more foolish days) standing next to that and giving it the finger!  

Assuming it's the European Parliament building yes?

It is the Berlaymont which hosts the European Commission, but all of the EU buildings are truly repellent. The Parliament has to relocate itself between three different cities. It is the height of idiocy. No wonder Farage wants to leave as they're not exactly nice cities either!

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

It is the Berlaymont which hosts the European Commission, but all of the EU buildings are truly repellent. The Parliament has to relocate itself between three different cities. It is the height of idiocy. No wonder Farage wants to leave as they're not exactly nice cities either!

Brussels is a great city. Really loved it when I visited a few years back.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

Brussels is a great city. Really loved it when I visited a few years back.

As Bill Bryson said it is the type of place you wonder if 1030 is too early to start drinking.

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

As Bill Bryson said it is the type of place you wonder if 1030 is too early to start drinking.

Funny you should say that. There's a great place that does wine and seafood for breakfast. I was there everyday for nibbles and a glass of dry white.  

http://noordzeemerdunord.be/

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Funny you should say that. There's a great place that does wine and seafood for breakfast. I was there everyday for nibbles and a glass of dry white.  

http://noordzeemerdunord.be/

 

I thought you were more a burger and chips guy

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I thought you were more a burger and chips guy

The wife is big on seafood and I like some of it. Back on topic I did have the best burger ever at a place called The Lizard Lounge just around the corner from Notre Dame.  

[EvanG]

19 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Brussels is a great city. Really loved it when I visited a few years back.

Brussels is too big and dirty, but not in a cool way like Berlin. Antwerp is way better.

[Dazey]

Just now, EvanG said:

Brussels is too big and dirty, but not in a cool way like Berlin. Antwerp is way better.

Might be going to Bruges and Ghent at the end of May for the wife's birthday.  I'd love to go to Antwerp too but we've only got a couple of days. Any recommendations on places to visit?

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Might be going to Bruges and Ghent at the end of May for the wife's birthday.  I'd love to go to Antwerp too but we've only got a couple of days. Any recommendations on places to visit?

Bruges is beautiful, never been to Ghent, I don’t think it’s too big. 

If you should go to Antwerp, just check out the centre, it’s very walkable and not spread out like Brussels. And the street Cogels Osylei is worth checking out if you are into old architecture, it’s a very stunning street/area.

[-Jaro-]

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

I think it's sad, and I can understand that it's an exceptionally long-standing part of a city and a nation's consciousness and history, it's a tremendous piece of architecture and construction, it's a world-famous icon, a hugely popular tourist site. I've visited myself and have memories of climbing the spiral stairs, sitting beneath the bells and the view over Paris from its towers.

However, I do think that there's a complete lack of perspective on how relatively tragic this is in comparison to a lot of other terrible stuff that's going on in the world. If billionaires could sit up and suddenly pledge hundreds of millions of dollars to famine victims in Yemen, or plastic cleanup in the oceans the way they did for one building in a first-world capital city, that would probably be a far better use of their money.

I did feel a wee bit uneasy when that Croatian guy was being lynched for pointing this out a few pages ago, I thought the accusations towards him of being unfeeling were quite harsh when actually he was pointing out that there are far worse things happening with far less publicity and public outcry (although I accept that his way of doing it was quite blunt at a point where people seemed quite emotional and probably weren't ready to try and view the situation objectively).

No need to feel uneasy. This is a forum and averybody have right to their opinion and here is the place to put it out.

I m not part of "offended" generation.

Luckily for me, I grew up in Zagreb so didn't see much of destruction, but what was frustrating, when "they" destroyed "our" churches, or "we" destroyed "theirs" - was bigger news, and bigger scandal then 10-20 dead or wounded...

As I said - big damage was made, but not tragedy for me...

Tragedy would be if fire was not an accident...

Edited April 16, 2019 by -Jaro-

[action]

7 hours ago, Graeme said:

I think it's sad, and I can understand that it's an exceptionally long-standing part of a city and a nation's consciousness and history, it's a tremendous piece of architecture and construction, it's a world-famous icon, a hugely popular tourist site. I've visited myself and have memories of climbing the spiral stairs, sitting beneath the bells and the view over Paris from its towers.

However, I do think that there's a complete lack of perspective on how relatively tragic this is in comparison to a lot of other terrible stuff that's going on in the world. If billionaires could sit up and suddenly pledge hundreds of millions of dollars to famine victims in Yemen, or plastic cleanup in the oceans the way they did for one building in a first-world capital city, that would probably be a far better use of their money.

I did feel a wee bit uneasy when that Croatian guy was being lynched for pointing this out a few pages ago, I thought the accusations towards him of being unfeeling were quite harsh when actually he was pointing out that there are far worse things happening with far less publicity and public outcry (although I accept that his way of doing it was quite blunt at a point where people seemed quite emotional and probably weren't ready to try and view the situation objectively).

 

7 hours ago, Dazey said:

Pretty much this. The thing that's amused (maybe not the best word) me is people making such a big deal over all the religious artefacts. I mean whoop de fuckin' do that they managed to rescue the rag that Jesus (fictional character) wiped his arse on. I mean you've lost the nails that they hammered him to the cross with? If you believe that was true in the first place I've got a lovely bag of magic beans top sell you.  

Make all the dumb jokes you want Dazey. I'm sure you can come up with something better than "thoughts and prayers " and "wiped his arse on". You're a natural, aren't you? 

And people like Graeme; if you want to put your energy in measuring the relative importance of this event to other horrors, please do. You've got it all figured out. Inform us heartless people of the unknown cruelties that are happening in the world, so we can look at ourselves and see how bigotted we are for mourning stones and wood. 

As for myself, I'm going to apologize here, for overreacting a bit on monday evening while the church was still burning. I guess I was a bit inconsiderate there. 

[DieselDaisy]

The religious relics such as the crown are certainly very important to people in the Catholic fold and certain other denominations, and there is a historic dimension to them. I don't see how anyone can ridicule their deliverance - pardon the expression.

Edited April 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[action]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The religious relics such as the crown are certainly very important to people in the Catholic fold and certain other denominations, and there is a historic dimension to them. I don't see how anyone can ridicule their deliverance - pardon the expression.

They litterally go from attacking Trump's offensive language in one thread to ridiculing the mourning of an important christian symbol in another one.

I love all this talk about respecting minorities, being political correct, but then throw about lines such as " the rag that Jesus (fictional character) wiped his arse on", as if to take a break from all the political correct hipocrisy. after all, the only group we can still make fun of is christians is it not?

They have two sets of caps as it were: one when they act the political correct Trump criticiser and defenders of diversity, and another cap when they make fun of religious people.

 

 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, action said:

They litterally go from attacking Trump's offensive language in one thread to ridiculing the mourning of an important christian symbol in another one.

I love all this talk about respecting minorities, being political correct, but then throw about lines such as " the rag that Jesus (fictional character) wiped his arse on", as if to take a break from all the political correct hipocrisy. after all, the only group we can still make fun of is christians is it not?

They have two sets of caps as it were: one when they act the political correct Trump criticiser and defenders of diversity, and another cap when they make fun of religious people.

 

 

It is the ''new'' way of speaking held by champagne-left progressives and iconoclasts which is very smug, patronising and hypocritical.

[Lio]

I don't really like the comparing. It's like telling someone who's just had a horrible experience: Yes, but your experience is nothing compared to what that other person went through. It's not the time and place and it's completely irrelevant. Of course there are tragedies going on everywhere. I think we all realize that. I hate the finger pointing at people who donate to rebuild it now. Beside the obvious fact that they can do with the money they earned as they please, what do we know about what they're doing for other good causes?

Just wood and stones? Some things transcend that. Some respect for our human history would be nice, even if you're no catholic. I'm horrified by people with no respect for history at all, religious or not.

That doesn't mean to say fuck all kids in Yemen. Such hypocrisy too. Do those finger pointers never go on holiday? Don't they buy expensive clothes they don't really need? Or some collector's item? I'm sure you could save quite a few kids from Yemen too with a few hundred euros or dollars that you just spent on yourself.

 

[soon]

1 hour ago, action said:

They litterally go from attacking Trump's offensive language in one thread to ridiculing the mourning of an important christian symbol in another one.

I love all this talk about respecting minorities, being political correct, but then throw about lines such as " the rag that Jesus (fictional character) wiped his arse on", as if to take a break from all the political correct hipocrisy. after all, the only group we can still make fun of is christians is it not?

They have two sets of caps as it were: one when they act the political correct Trump criticiser and defenders of diversity, and another cap when they make fun of religious people.

 

 

No serious person thinks that Jesus is not a historical figure. Secular fundamentalists have been duped into making fools of themselves.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by soon