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2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I'll say this: both Beta and Fernando have been shown numerous screen shots of walker not only admitting it, but bragging about it. 

So they still support that piece of garbage but insult Margott...insanity! 

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5 hours ago, TheSeeker said:

Saskatoon has a few fuck-ups, but the band was so good at that point that it’s almost charming

Well of course there were fuck ups; its Guns N' Roses! :lol:  But musically they were very tight, and it was less of a "show"; no back up singers, excessive costume changes, etc.  A much leaner, cleaner version.

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5 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

It was sarcasm, dude. $20 an hour seems low for cleaning your house and raising your kids. You should have more respect instead of mocking her humble holidaying aspirations on the internet. I bet she works hard for that standard pay. How many hours does she work?

If for example you had her make the effort to drive all the way out to your place to work for, say 1hour, would you just give her $20? If so, you're a fucking cheapskate. In that kind of situation her payment should be bumped up to save everyone's dignity. If you can afford to pay her more than a standard rate then do so and if you can't maybe show some respect and forgo some personal luxuries so you can.

I should’ve consulted with you first. After all, you are the “oldest goat”. I am a slob. I am scum. I am LESS than scum. I should pay more. I should be more “goat”. Ps , it’s “than”, not “then”. Go Donny trump! Eh comrade? 

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4 hours ago, TheSeeker said:

Don Henley and The Eagles have the same “delete all bootlegs from the internet” policy, but at least with them they have a couple great live albums 

 

Yeah and the actually say please don't record  at the shows. They had a announcement right before the show. GNR the band may not care but TB does and may be going behind Axl's back

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After I read the 49 pages I have something to say, I consider Beta's words unacceptable, not because she was rude and disrespectful with someone else but because she unintentionally represents a brand (even when she is using her personal Instagram account), and her words were against someone devoted to that brand, "but", I kind of understand Beta's reaction and this is why, I know Margott in person, she is not my friend but we've cross a few words at different places and situations, from my perspective I can say she could be annoying for some people (including my self), she is excessively overacted when she tries to be nice whit someone, she acts weird specially when there are "VIPs" around, I saw her meddling her self into people's conversations where she wasn't invited to create a chance to meet or have a photo with someone. Once I heard her saying she won't be able to talk to anyone at the rail because she doesn't want to waste her saliva so she doesn't have to drink water and at some moment go to the bathroom and lose her spot (anyway she always had saliva to talk with any staff member who walked in front of her), and once I could see Beta not so happy with one interaction Margott had with Axl once she had the chance to go backstage to meet him (that time Margott didn't even posted anything on social media about that encounter). Yes, TB coordinates "weird" (I won't say secret meetings because they are not) meetings were they have to have total control of the situation, nothing immoral or illegal, just "rockstar's things", so, I don't support Beta's words at all, but, I can't understand why she wrote what she wrote, Margott was very, excessively insistent with the "videos been taken down" all over social media, she wrote it everywhere. Someone at GNR camp was going to react to her someday. 

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''Going behind Axl's back'' my arse. These Team Brazilian sycophants were hired by Rose himself, and therefore presumably operate broadly within Rose's remit. Rose is one of the industry's thorough control freaks for crying out loud!! You lot are trying to turn him into a pliable (and rather dumb) character haha. He even has a history of censorship that precedes the whole Team Brazil drama, restricting photographers during the Illusion tour (St Louis?)! Del James was recruited years before Beta turned up for a job interview to be a nanny and we have all seen Del James's opinion on online bootlegging: it is the exact same opinion as Team Brazil. What is the common denominator here? They were all hired by Rose.

It is Rose. It always has been Rose. He might not be personally deleting the stuff himself but I have no doubt that Rose is aware of the takedowns and that the people doing the actual deleting are doing so in accordance with Axl Rose's views.

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9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

''Going behind Axl's back'' my arse. These Team Brazilian sycophants were hired by Rose himself, and therefore presumably operate broadly within Rose's remit. Rose is one of the industry's thorough control freaks for crying out loud!! You lot are trying to turn him into a pliable (and rather dumb) character haha. He even has a history of censorship that precedes the whole Team Brazil drama, restricting photographers during the Illusion tour (St Louis?)! Del James was recruited years before Beta turned up for a job interview to be a nanny and we have all seen Del James's opinion on online bootlegging: it is the exact same opinion as Team Brazil. What is the common denominator here? They were all hired by Rose.

It is Rose. It always has been Rose. He might not be personally deleting the stuff himself but I have no doubt that Rose is aware of the takedowns and that the people doing the actual deleting are doing so in accordance with Axl Rose's views.

I feel like hes been heavily prozaced since like 2011

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4 hours ago, Stoymatic said:

What actions can we as hardcores take to make this band change how they treat us?

If we don’t go to shows they still sell because of all the casuals.

Thoughts? 💭 

We're the fucking idiots that line their pockets by buying tonka trucks, laundry bags and $1000 toy boxes full of useless shit. So we should stop being fucking idiots.

And as shown by Beta's attitude towards Margot, they have open disdain for us and are "sick of" fans who throw ungodly amounts of money at them to follow the band on tour. So if that's how they feel about their biggest customers, why should they keep giving them business?

Fuck this gaggle of cunts.

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6 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I just find it baffling because no other band has ever had the issue, as far as I am aware, of management openly calling certain fans annoying while the people that love them the most can't even enjoy youtube videos, again like every other band in this world.

 

If you don't care about any of that, that is cool but basic professionalism from them is not "free cookies and tea" like you are making it out to be.  Most of everyone do not share that view and for good reason in this case

 

 

If you think Beta acting like a 15 year old on Instagram because the wife of the bassist shared a photo of herself with the singer's ex-wife from 25 years ago (lol) is professional and insulting the fans who love the band the most is logical, well that is cool.  Same with the band asking for videos of this tour from fans knowing full well the takedowns are occuring and doing nothing about it

How does anyone know if she truly unfollowed Susan? That would be An odd thing to do, but who knows. I mean, she did walk out of Marc Canter sons barmitzvah because Slash played a song. That was fucking loopy. She did it out respect for Axl. She couldn’t actually watch Slash play a guitar. 

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8 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I just find it baffling because no other band has ever had the issue, as far as I am aware, of management openly calling certain fans annoying while the people that love them the most can't even enjoy youtube videos, again like every other band in this world.

I find it baffling you have never heard about that! the list is endless:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/dark-side-of-fame-celebrities-with-the-most-dangerous-stalkers.html/

I also think, there is a difference between loving "them" (which I think is a bit weird and unhealthy), and loving the "art".

I can understand a 15 year old girl having an Axl poster on her wall and being "in love" with him, ok whatever. but for grown ups? well...

this is also not necessarily about the YT videos. for as long as I'm a member on here, management has been criticised and people were trying to "help" them with "advice".

Honeslty, I dont know why GNR even bother by this point. If I had my way, I would have called it a day loooooong ago. If I was an artist, my goal would be to make art and make it seen. Not, making new friends who frankly are a bit weird. the moment I would have been stalked and slandered like this, is the moment I would retire.

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6 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

It would help if Ax, Slash and Duff actually took interest in social media. But they have a intense detest for it. More the reason why Team BS is able to get away with everything

That would be a big mistake on their part. It's impossible to deal with fanaticism without creating friction and breaks like this one between TB and (part of) Fanbase.  Fanatics will always want more and more in this kind of interaction, will always create their own realities, their own truths.  And based on what they strongly believe, they are capable of creating colossal dramas. IMO, TB should never try to get close to fans like us, should never have exposed their personal lives on social media.  All the managers of the past made their money, made mistakes and created problems for the band but at the time were never criticized, many of us didn't even know their names at the time they worked for the band.

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4 hours ago, fantomas said:

Christ, I forgot the Madison saga.  Yeah, I lost a ton of respect from Axl on that one. His misogynistic side came in spades that day, he made it very clear that it was us vs them.  I like Axl as a musician but as a person, he's kinda trash.

I cringed when I read that. :facepalm: And Madison was an unabashed Axl fan. She banned a good portion of the die hards on this forum when CD dropped because of our negativity. And her reward was to get a message like that. Rose has a well earned reputation as a shitbag.

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these days, GNR can hardly be classed as a band that will put out new product any time soon. The peak years of their creative output was 1987-1993. In that period, people could rightfully expect new product.

But these days, management is focused on consolidating financies and assets. it's mainly financial resources management. Keep what they have, and try to add to it. To this point, they are touring as the easiest way to earn cash.

None of it is focused on creating healthy relationships with the fans, and that is their right.

They aren't asking for a relationship with fans. They don't ask for advice, so everytime advice is given, it is unwanted. In this regard, I don't understand how they should be "grateful" when they receive advice either. If you don't ask for something, why should you be grateful when they get it? I'm sure they are more than capable enough, to help themselves. if they need our advice, then I'm sure they will ask.

much of this stems from a need to be "involved" somewhat (and maybe, get a crumble of the cake here and there?). There is a certain need that needs satisfying here. it's not a need that the band has, but a need of the fan. To have a look behind the curtain, to have some feeling of "entitlement", but why isn't it enough just enjoying the show? Chances are, when you do manage to have a look behind the curtain, you'll find they are just people like you and me, and frankly, the members of GNR are all a bit of scumbags and hypocrites anyway. I'm not sure what some fans are looking for here...

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22 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It isn't about me giving Rose ''a break'' but ascertaining the facts of the matter.

But we have no facts as to how far this goes. 

What I’m saying is, we can’t claim this is definitely on Axl’s direct command. You guys keep forgetting that you may sweat stuff on forums all day, but they don’t. If it gets a bit farther (past Fernando) occasionally, then what we get is shit like that Del’s ignorant response, like "what did you expect when you’re sharing illegal material"... that nonsense. And if Del gives you this, what small portion of the whole thing do you imagine could even get to the musicians themselves?

It could be like, "Hey Axl, there’s this problem with youtube videos from the shows, fans are saying they are being taken down a lot, and..." "Yeah? Well tough luck. Now go away, I’m off to polish Hard School."
I think that’s all there is. 
The situation definitely is fucked up, but we can't assert we know who's doing what deliberately and who's just unaware / not giving a shit etc. 
 

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Just now, jamillos said:

But we have no facts as to how far this goes. 

What I’m saying is, we can’t claim this is definitely on Axl’s direct command. You guys keep forgetting that you may sweat stuff on forums all day, but they don’t. If it gets a bit farther (past Fernando) occasionally, then what we get is shit like that Del’s ignorant response, like "what did you expect when you’re sharing illegal material"... that nonsense. And if Del gives you this, what small portion of the whole thing do you imagine could even get to the musicians themselves?

It could be like, "Hey Axl, there’s this problem with youtube videos from the shows, fans are saying they are being taken down a lot, and..." "Yeah? Well tough luck. Now go away, I’m off to polish Hard School."
I think that’s all there is. 
The situation definitely is fucked up, but we can't assert we know who's doing what deliberately and who's just unaware / not giving a shit etc. 
 

It is Rose. He would try and sue his grandmother if given half a chance. Rose once woke up one morning and nearly sued himself. All of this behaviour precedes Team Brazil so therefore it is an educated guess that the policy emanates from Rose himself and not his lackeys. 

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I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Axl is the issue. I mean, Slash and Duff have always been very fan friendly with their solo acts and love doing smaller shows, getting close to the crowd.
 

But Axl wanted to keep the Guns name/brand and remain in big venues. He’s the one that went to war with the media years ago. He set the tone for how to treat fans with the madison rant. He’s the one that won’t release material and wanted pictures removed from the internet. It’s not hard to imagine he doesn’t like the YouTube vids. 
 

He’s the one that surrounded himself with the likes of Yoda and TB. 
 

I don’t think that Axl really wants to make new music or release anything like live DVDs/CDs. I don’t think he really wants YouTube videos or hardcore fans commenting on the set list. 
 

I think he’s happy to just tour and make money and would probably prefer not having to deal with the inconvenience of hardcore fans. The casuals are easier to please anyways. 
 

TB and Del are nothing more than yes men. If Axl says call Slash, they’ll call Slash. If he wants YouTube videos down, they’ll go down. 
 

Axl lost all motivation for Guns somewhere around 2008. 
 

 

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32 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is Rose. He would try and sue his grandmother if given half a chance. Rose once woke up one morning and nearly sued himself. All of this behaviour precedes Team Brazil so therefore it is an educated guess that the policy emanates from Rose himself and not his lackeys. 

Not much of an argument. Guess it’s a moot point then. The same Rose who would jump into a crowd to beat a guy with a camera is the very same Rose who said – 13 years ago – that he doesn’t necessarily have anything against all those bootlegs and cameras... etc. We could go on, let’s not. ;)

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