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Thank you for that post @downzy

I agree with you synopsis of the situation.  Just wish this shit would stop with fans hurting fans for some childish, self-serving reasons. 🤬

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27 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

As hard rock icon Bruce Hornsby said "that's just the way it is".

I think you mean Tupac?

Spoiler

J/K :lol:

 

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16 minutes ago, downzy said:

At the same time, you can't begrudge fans for thinking whatever they want if the band doesn't do anything to address the situation and correct the record.  

Not at all, I certainly understand the frustration. They could/should be more fan friendly but they're just not. 

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1 minute ago, lame ass security said:

Not at all, I certainly understand the frustration. They could/should be more fan friendly but they're just not. 

I think they have a different concept or standards on what it means to be fan friendly.  

They would probably look at actions like starting a fan club, running contest, releasing remastered music, touring for 2+ years, reforming with Slash and Duff, playing a hits-laden setlist, and shows that often run three hours as being efforts to appeal to fans.  

They just aren't the kind of band that's ever been into fan-engagement in ways that fans want or expect.  I can't speak with certainty, but their modus operandi is more akin to the bands of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  The internet ushered an era of unparalleled access and transparency; two things that have never been GNR's thing.  

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

At the same time, you can't begrudge fans for thinking whatever they want if the band doesn't do anything to address the situation and correct the record.  

Oh yeah you can, lol.  

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7 hours ago, downzy said:

I think they have a different concept or standards on what it means to be fan friendly.  

They would probably look at actions like starting a fan club, running contest, releasing remastered music, touring for 2+ years, reforming with Slash and Duff, playing a hits-laden setlist, and shows that often run three hours as being efforts to appeal to fans.  

They just aren't the kind of band that's ever been into fan-engagement in ways that fans want or expect.  I can't speak with certainty, but their modus operandi is more akin to the bands of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  The internet ushered an era of unparalleled access and transparency; two things that have never been GNR's thing.  

I think also the internet and social media in general have set the expectation that bands should be available to fans. If the bands position is dont expect guns to be the fan friendly band and list what they are and arnt comfortable in doing or giving to fans then fine ......just state that position. Which im sure axl could do in a twitter. My only gripe is that the SKMC organisation in communicating to fans is the complete opposite to the way guns operate.

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Posted (edited)

To be fair the band and management are in a no win situation. Unfortunately fans on this forum are the minority of people that take issue with all sorts of actions the band takes on and off stage, or the actions of their management.

Given this you can understand why they dont feel the need to address the issue at hand.

Are the majority of people who attended shows as casual fans occupying their time worrying about YouTube clips being taken down?.

Given some fans that post here, if you place yourself in the bands and their managements shoes they would be responding to  every individuals issue they choose to raise.

Why is Izzy not involved - Please respond via a statement.

I dont like Frank's drumming. Steven has a better groove. Were is Steven - Please respond via a statement 

I think the band are a group of Aliens and dont think they should be called GNR. Why is the band still calling itself GNR - Please respond via a statement 

Melissa is not rock enough .why is Melissa in the band - Please respond via a statement 

I don't like Richards guitar playing - why are you letting him do his own interpretation and not the original note for note song written by Izzy- Please respond via a statement 

 

Even if they released a statement some will ignore the contents and believe what they want to believe based on their own perception or fixed mindset.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by kiwiguns
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2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

I think also the internet and social media in general have set the expectation that bands should be available to fans. If the bands position is dont expect guns to be the fan friendly band and list what they are and arnt comfortable in doing or giving to fans then fine ......just state that position. Which im sure axl could do in a twitter. My only gripe is that the SKMC organisation in communicating to fans is the complete opposite to the way guns operate.

Just goes to show which variables here are the constricting ones. :shrugs: 

I didn't like Slash's new album, but how he conducts his band is a great template for any artist trying to balance their sovereignty and fan involvement. 

1 hour ago, kiwiguns said:

To be fair the band and management are in a no win situation. Unfortunately fans on this forum are the minority of people that take issue with all sorts of actions the band takes on and off stage, or the actions of their management.

Given this you can understand why they dont feel the need to address the issue at hand.

Are the majority of people who attended shows as casual fans occupying their time worrying about YouTube clips being taken down?.

Given some fans that post here, if you place yourself in the bands and their managements shoes they would be responding to  every individuals issue they choose to raise.

Why is Izzy not involved - Please respond via a statement.

I dont like Frank's drumming. Steven has a better groove. Were is Steven - Please respond via a statement 

I think the band are a group of Aliens and dont think they should be called GNR. Why is the band still calling itself GNR - Please respond via a statement 

Melissa is not rock enough .why is Melissa in the band - Please respond via a statement 

I don't like Richards guitar playing - why are you letting him do his own interpretation and not the original note for note song written by Izzy- Please respond via a statement 

 

Even if they released a statement some will ignore the contents and believe what they want to believe based on their own perception or fixed mindset.

I think fans wanting to know where Izzy is or why Frank/Melissa are in the band are not at all equal-level issues to a malicious take-down campaign, allegedly at the direction of management. 

You say it's a "no win," but in this case it's actually a very easy win: 

"We have nothing to do with these people, we're sorry fans are enduring this and we don't condone malicious attacks."

That would score TB much needed points among the hardcore fanbase. However, if the truth is:

"GNR management directed two individuals to pursue copyright claims on our behalf. However, we erred in our judgement and these two individuals pursued methods we would have never imagined. We are very sorry to the fans who were threatened and we have ensured copyright claims will be conducted by management/actual employees from here on out."

If that's the truth, you may be correct it is a 'no win.' They would deserve some credit for owning up to it, but then the questions are: why did this take so long for you to admit? why did you hire two goons to do your work? It would be better from a PR standpoint to not say anything at all and let everyone forget about it... which feels like what is happening now, but we can't know for sure.

I do think it's possible this is just a case of a strict no comment policy, but I can also see the latter quote being the case. 

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12 hours ago, downzy said:

Also examine and consider how the takedowns occurred soon after the leaks from last year.  Those who followed that little escapade know it was the result of one foolish idiot who has a history of being a pain in everyones ass, who has long been shunned by the community at large, and has every incentive in his warped and petty little mind to abuse the online reporting mechanisms for copyrighted materials available to everyone.  

I can understand a no-comment policy, especially since it will draw media attention. I can especially understand it here, given that we are but a drop in the ocean when it comes to the global GN'R 'fanbase'. However, there comes a point where 'no comment' becomes tacit approval, and GN'R have done nothing to halt the activities of this individual (who is also alleged to be the leaker). Del James even responded at one point, saying that these bootlegs are illegal anyway. If someone on your team is going to comment, at least don't let it be something like that.

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7 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

To be fair the band and management are in a no win situation. Unfortunately fans on this forum are the minority of people that take issue with all sorts of actions the band takes on and off stage, or the actions of their management.

Given this you can understand why they dont feel the need to address the issue at hand.

Are the majority of people who attended shows as casual fans occupying their time worrying about YouTube clips being taken down?.

Given some fans that post here, if you place yourself in the bands and their managements shoes they would be responding to  every individuals issue they choose to raise.

Why is Izzy not involved - Please respond via a statement.

I dont like Frank's drumming. Steven has a better groove. Were is Steven - Please respond via a statement 

I think the band are a group of Aliens and dont think they should be called GNR. Why is the band still calling itself GNR - Please respond via a statement 

Melissa is not rock enough .why is Melissa in the band - Please respond via a statement 

I don't like Richards guitar playing - why are you letting him do his own interpretation and not the original note for note song written by Izzy- Please respond via a statement

None of that has anything to do with the fact that people's families were threatened by people claiming to represent GNR and TB. 

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6 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

I can understand a no-comment policy, especially since it will draw media attention. I can especially understand it here, given that we are but a drop in the ocean when it comes to the global GN'R 'fanbase'. However, there comes a point where 'no comment' becomes tacit approval, and GN'R have done nothing to halt the activities of this individual (who is also alleged to be the leaker). Del James even responded at one point, saying that these bootlegs are illegal anyway. If someone on your team is going to comment, at least don't let it be something like that.

Agreed, "no comment" seem at least complicity.

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I cannot by myself remove doubts of their involvement given Del James's ''anti-bootlegging'' hissy fit and their lack of response. if somebody was threatening people, said to be working in my name or my band's name, I'd certainly want to declare myself absolved of all involvement, but they haven't done this. Why then should I not doubt Guns N' Roses/management? They have given me no indications that they aren't involved. There is simply no reason to remove them from culpability. 

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Didnt del share some bootlegs of another band on Facebook just a few days afterwards? Or when he was bragging about stealing a keg? Hypocrisy is a beautiful thing lol

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I get that they are a "company" and a company wants to make profit and piracy hurts their profit, but....

not counting the appetite boxset, the last GNR related purchase of mine was in...2008 (chinese democracy) and before that I guess 2005 when I bought the spaghetti incident.

that's three purchases in 15 years (one of them an old release) and I'm a die hard GNR fan. and here is the kicker: I WANT to buy stuff, i NEED to buy stuff. but there's a whole lotta nothing.

I don't know how these guys paid the wages of their personell, all these years

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I don't really want to get too involved in the speculation here, but I think there's a point worth mentioning. 

These bootlegs have (or have had) intrinsic value to some people in the past. Bootlegs have been sold, traded and even used as some sort of 'status tool' by weird individuals. The "I've got something you haven't, so I'm special" attitude. The latter issue is incredibly important to sad little people who have absolutely nothing in their lives. They're the kid in the playground who has no friends, is disliked, but has the one sticker or trading card others need to complete their collection. It makes them feel big. 

Bootlegs and other material being freely available removes all that. It allows others to have what they might have, removes it's status, and means it can't be sold for money on the blackmarket (something we know was happening). 

These very peculiar individuals have a lot of personal interest in removing this material from the internet - from financial, to personal. They want to protect their own interests: and it's within their own power to do so. They can even cloak it in a veil of righteousness along the lines of 'bootlegging is illegal, we're protecting the artists', but ultimately it boils down to one fact: they're removing it for themselves. 

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2 minutes ago, WildStar said:

@allwaystired Sad little people, nothing in their lives, very peculiar individuals. Who on Earth could you be talking about? 

Those who shall not be named! 

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This is the first time I have read something resembling a rational explanation for why someone would go to the effort of taking down the YT videos, instead of it just being the pointless work of sad and deranged individuals.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I cannot by myself remove doubts of their involvement given Del James's ''anti-bootlegging'' hissy fit and their lack of response. if somebody was threatening people, said to be working in my name or my band's name, I'd certainly want to declare myself absolved of all involvement, but they haven't done this. Why then should I not doubt Guns N' Roses/management? They have given me no indications that they aren't involved. There is simply no reason to remove them from culpability. 

Absolutely, epsecially given the fact that the quote below is 100% true:

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

Didnt del share some bootlegs of another band on Facebook just a few days afterwards? Or when he was bragging about stealing a keg? Hypocrisy is a beautiful thing lol



 

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

I don't really want to get too involved in the speculation here, but I think there's a point worth mentioning. 

These bootlegs have (or have had) intrinsic value to some people in the past. Bootlegs have been sold, traded and even used as some sort of 'status tool' by weird individuals. The "I've got something you haven't, so I'm special" attitude. The latter issue is incredibly important to sad little people who have absolutely nothing in their lives. They're the kid in the playground who has no friends, is disliked, but has the one sticker or trading card others need to complete their collection. It makes them feel big. 

Bootlegs and other material being freely available removes all that. It allows others to have what they might have, removes it's status, and means it can't be sold for money on the blackmarket (something we know was happening). 

These very peculiar individuals have a lot of personal interest in removing this material from the internet - from financial, to personal. They want to protect their own interests: and it's within their own power to do so. They can even cloak it in a veil of righteousness along the lines of 'bootlegging is illegal, we're protecting the artists', but ultimately it boils down to one fact: they're removing it for themselves. 

Again, this is not just about bootlegs being removed from YouTube. This is about 2 people threatening the lives of familes and saying they're doing it at the instruction of GN'R and/or their management TB.

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Absolutely, epsecially given the fact that the quote below is 100% true:



 

Again, this is not just about bootlegs being removed from YouTube. This is about 2 people threatening the lives of familes and saying they're doing it at the instruction of GN'R and/or their management TB.

Yep - i understand that. I was trying to offer a reason for 'why' they are doing it, rather than anything else. 

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15 hours ago, OmarBradley said:

 

That would score TB much needed points among the hardcore fanbase. However, if the truth is:

"GNR management directed two individuals to pursue copyright claims on our behalf. However, we erred in our judgement and these two individuals pursued methods we would have never imagined. We are very sorry to the fans who were threatened and we have ensured copyright claims will be conducted by management/actual employees from here on out."

 

The truth is it's one guy who started the copyright claims, years ago - as part of a quest to 'police the internet in all things GNR'.  This started around 2003.  'Alfred' is just a youngster who latched on and copied.

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so some chap from Tuscaloosa has been working for Axl/TB since 2003, his job role is to run the official forum and police the internet which involves taking down many Youtube videos and accounts ? 

by doing this he has become one of the most disliked people in the GNR community. 

what does he get in return ? with his long criminal history including 1st degree theft he obviously doesn't get paid enough to live on so what does he get ? 

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1 minute ago, donny said:

so some chap from Tuscaloosa has been working for Axl/TB since 2003, his job role is to run the official forum and police the internet which involves taking down many Youtube videos and accounts ? 

by doing this he has become one of the most disliked people in the GNR community. 

what does he get in return ? with his long criminal history including 1st degree theft he obviously doesn't get paid enough to live on so what does he get ? 

In terms of this alfred id wish for someone that has financial clout to send a lawsuit his way and bring this whole issue into a public court.

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2 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

In terms of this alfred id wish for someone that has financial clout to send a lawsuit his way and bring this whole issue into a public court.

not him ! alfred is a spotty faced kid that sells bagels, he is the Charlotte NC one. a little nobody. nothing.

i'm talking about JH, mofo, warchild, deborah or whatever his name his now. 

 

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