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1 minute ago, Tom2112 said:

Why does he have to reach out informally? 

If he wants to talk to fans shy doesn't  he contact a forum and do it, OR why not just get the facts from people who know and release a statement detailing preventative measures.

I don't know really.

I've just always assumed with TB, you get the official TB side, the management side. Then you get Beta and Fernando, the people that know Axl on a personal level.

I have never disagreed in my head with what Russ is alluding to, but I don't see it as a TB, the official management thing. I see it as them as people, maybe imparting opinions, or something else. And if that is the case, then so be it. They are a family of sorts, and it's natural for families to protect each other.

I assumed the Fernando on reddit was a Fernando thing, not a TB thing. He was just being him outside work, thought he'd reach out on a personal level, as he has done in the past.

Maybe my thinking is wrong, but it's just the way I see it.

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11 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

I don't know really.

I've just always assumed with TB, you get the official TB side, the management side. Then you get Beta and Fernando, the people that know Axl on a personal level.

I have never disagreed in my head with what Russ is alluding to, but I don't see it as a TB, the official management thing. I see it as them as people, maybe imparting opinions, or something else. And if that is the case, then so be it. They are a family of sorts, and it's natural for families to protect each other.

I assumed the Fernando on reddit was a Fernando thing, not a TB thing. He was just being him outside work, thought he'd reach out on a personal level, as he has done in the past.

Maybe my thinking is wrong, but it's just the way I see it.

Sorry, but you can't split up the things that he says about gnr. Saying one thing is manager Fernando the other is family Fernando... this just isn't possible. In a public forum if he discusses or defends gnr he is the manager and a representative of the band. What he says behind closed doors unrelated to gnr is private life/not manager fernando.

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8 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Sorry, but you can't split up the things that he says about gnr. Saying one thing is manager Fernando the other is family Fernando... this just isn't possible. In a public forum if he discusses or defends gnr he is the manager and a representative of the band. What he says behind closed doors unrelated to gnr is private life/not manager fernando.

Fernando was here before he was TB. There is an official and unofficial Fernando. Fernando had a go at me years ago, but that was him, not a TB him

I get what people are saying, but they are people as well as managers of GN'R. If you want to take everything that is said on an official level, that's fine, but that is your personal opinion. 

I just see everything as a little one dimensional. They've always seemed like nice people, and I just think that in this modern era of computers and facebook, that people have lost the ability to relate what is written to real life and the outside world.

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27 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

Why do you keep spreading this nonsense? You do know that YouTube is not the only place where videos are being removed from, right?
 

Facebook fanpages with literally hundreds of thousands of likes have been deleted forever because of copyrighted videos that were uploaded to the pages (and not copy-pasting YT links, I mean by actually uploading the videos to Facebook).

Instagram posts have been deleted, which also have nothing to do with YouTube (Instagram is Facebook and YouTube is Google).

I lost the main Twitter account of my fanpage, with 15k followers, because they took down videos that were uploaded there (again, not YouTube links, by uploading them myself). So there you have Twitter that isn't Facebook's property nor Google's.

Discord users have been banned from the platform (and Discord users that were owners of servers, so those servers are gone too) because "someone" reported them for spreading "illegal material".

 

Just to name a few. So please stop trying to justify this. You are wrong. Thank you.

blah, blah, blah. None of this existed 30 years ago

The geek at school from back in the day has now become the warrior of today. Hidden faces behind a keyboard armed with opinions and grandeur. 

I liked Discord for a while, it was nice speaking to a few old fans, but people just post fat Axl pictures, over and over. It's maybe humour, but it's childish and people just do it over and over because they cannot think of anything new to do. That's the keyboard warrior of today.

Again, this thread. I posted again because I was going to say for the 100th time the same thing to Russ' post, which he has posted 100 times. But then, I stopped.

It's a broken record. Videos are getting deleted, so be it. Just deal with it. There are nutty fans, it's not a new thing on GN'R forums. TB agree with it, who cares. The forum isn't about them. 

What I have posted is a lot of wibble, I will agree. I am just wanting people to be better than this playground type talk. Just deal with it and move on.

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Also, if it was Fernando on Reddit, why the hell post and annoy him into silence. Where is the sense in that. He was trying to be nice and give out information, but no, people have to go and criticise TB then he just disappears.

What is the sense that that, and where is the value to the actual GN'R fan who wants to know what is coming next.

People do not think about what they are saying, there is no respect anymore, not just about the band but for other fans.

I just do not get how anything works anymore.

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1 hour ago, Mysteron said:

Fernando was here before he was TB. There is an official and unofficial Fernando. Fernando had a go at me years ago, but that was him, not a TB him

I get what people are saying, but they are people as well as managers of GN'R. If you want to take everything that is said on an official level, that's fine, but that is your personal opinion. 

I just see everything as a little one dimensional. They've always seemed like nice people, and I just think that in this modern era of computers and facebook, that people have lost the ability to relate what is written to real life and the outside world.

It's not my opinion, it's his job. If he comes on reddit talking about gnr, that's gnrs manager on reddit discussing gnr... not Axls friend. So whether he was in the picture before doesn't matter, we're talking about what's happening now. 10yrs ago if he spoke on gnr he was fernando the son of Axls assistant.

If he comes on here and attacks you or anyone else about the things we criticize about axl and gnr. That response may be rooted in that he loves Axl very dearly... but he is the manager and in a public forum speaking about gnr even indirectly is official.

He might even disagree with me on this, but you don't see other managers trying to blur the lines on this, if they discuss their artist it's to promote or defuse any potential advantage or disadvantage coming their way. Maybe tb are just cut from a different cloth 😉

Edited by Tom2112
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Just now, Tom2112 said:

It's not my opinion, it's his job. If he comes on reddit talking about gnr, that's gnrs manager on reddit discussing gnr... not Axls friend. 

If he comes on here and attacks you or anyone else about the things we criticize about axl and gnr. That response may be rooted in that he loves Axl very dearly... but he is The manager and in a public forum speaking about gnr even indirectly is official.

He might even disagree with me on this, but you don't see other managers trying to blur the lines on this, if they discuss their artist it's to promote or defuse any potential advantage or disadvantage coming their way. Maybe tb are just cut from a different cloth 😉

You've got to allow Fernando to be the man and the manager. It wasn't his job for a lot of years and he still posted.

Management have never done things officially through forums, I would know this because I was the conduit during the Merck era.

Fernando here is Fernando

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I have other stories, but you can speak to the band and their management as people, not as representatives of the band

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6 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

You've got to allow Fernando to be the man and the manager. It wasn't his job for a lot of years and he still posted.

Management have never done things officially through forums, I would know this because I was the conduit during the Merck era.

Fernando here is Fernando

He is the man, in every other setting. I allow him that. When he's on here he is Fernando speaking as the advocate for gnr.

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9 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

He is the man, in every other setting. I allow him that. When he's on here he is Fernando speaking as the advocate for gnr.

Fair enough. I like your passion anyway. 

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12 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

When he's on here he is Fernando speaking as the advocate for gnr.

To promote the latest merch

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1 minute ago, Mysteron said:

Fair enough. I like your passion anyway. 

Ha! Fighting irish and all that 🤛

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45 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

Again, this thread. I posted again because I was going to say for the 100th time the same thing to Russ' post, which he has posted 100 times. But then, I stopped.

It's a broken record. Videos are getting deleted, so be it. Just deal with it. There are nutty fans, it's not a new thing on GN'R forums. TB agree with it, who cares. The forum isn't about them. 

If you look back at the last couple of pages, you'll see I haven't posted much at all. The only time I get involved with the thread is when I happen to see someone post the ridiculous notion that TB have nothing to do with the takedowns and/or haven't lied about it. 

Couldn't agree more that the forum isn't about nor should be about TB. However, the forum is very much about GNR and its fans. Those two things have crossed paths because of how poorly GNRs management have chosen to treat GNR fans. 

  • GNFNR 1

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Just now, janrichmond said:

To promote the latest merch

🤣🤣🤣 throwing left hooks too!

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

If you look back at the last couple of pages, you'll see I haven't posted much at all. The only time I get involved with the thread is when I happen to see someone post the ridiculous notion that TB have nothing to do with the takedowns and/or haven't lied about it. 

Couldn't agree more that the forum isn't about nor should be about TB. However, the forum is very much about GNR and its fans. Those two things have crossed paths because of how poorly GNRs management have chosen to treat GNR fans. 

They are good people. It is what it is, just let it go, or, be, if you are beatles man. 

It's a hard job, and we do have some fanatical fans 

I don't know what else to say

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11 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Ha! Fighting irish and all that 🤛

I saw that. I should have guessed. What am I like messing with the Irish haha

 

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11 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

I still don't understand why people don't seem to get the fact TB have no control over what YouTube does as it's a third party. 

YouTube have their own policies around copyright and removeal of content as a third party and separate entity. 

 

What Russ said, plus: If you think it’s just these providers’ policy, then please go register on fan forums of other major rock bands (Metallica, AC/DC, whatever), ask them about their experience with YT and other social media regarding their uploading of videos and the amount of them having been taken down, and then please report back so that we can compare our results. I wonder whether their videos get liquidated as ferociously and in a similarly absurd extent as in GNR’s case. 

Or, to spare us and yourself this shit, just use some logic. 
No, this is not just some ordinary "policy". 

Edited by jamillos
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52 minutes ago, zombux said:

if you call "fanatical fans" all the people who'd just like their favourite band to be releasing stuff just as every other band in the world, and would like to have some normal communication from the band/mgmt just as every other band/mgmt is doing - I see. then probably all of us must be fanatical, maybe besides huge piles of super casual fans who just go to shows to sing along KOHD and buy tshirt and toy truck. it's sad that these are the only target audience of the band for nearly a decade already, and definitely since the NITL reunion. the band and management showed numerous times (and keeps doing so) that everyone else who's more than super casual can just fuck off.

this band's and this bands psychopathic management's attitude towards all of us is flat out hostile. everyone is frustrated because the fat axl memes are probably the only thing we can talk about for a long time. yeah, childish as hell, but hey - don't tell me the fanbase is to blame. every other band in the world and every other management in the world is trying to have a nice relationship with their fanbases and both parties are super happy about it. in GNR world - not so much.

GNR management is probably the only management in the world, which has been and still is actively working on alienating the band from its fanbase. so no wonder people are frustrated and fed up with those incompetent clowns. all they can "manage" is probably selling some merch online and make Axl a cup of tea. everything else is massively successful almost despite their tryings. if the "management" just packed their things and went to hell, this snowball would still be massively successful, just for being there (and the label would probably make sure everything would make sense from the commercial point of view - but again - just the reunion itself is a cash generating machine, so why trying to "improve" something which generates billions without even trying)

rant end.

To be fair, I do not read everything about the band anymore, so you could be right. All I see though is the band have reformed to some degree, and they've had a good world tour. People who I know who have gone to see the band enjoyed the shows and that's it. I think the only thing I've ever recorded was a Cult show years ago, only because a friend was wondering what they were like many years later. That got taken down after a few weeks by YouTube, but I never thought anything of it.

I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I can go back 10-15 years and think the band have not embraced the internet very well, or engaged with the fans well. If you look at Weezer even in the late 90s, Karl (I think his name was) was engaging with the fans really well. The band was posting unreleased tracks on their website against the record labels wishes, it was all very different to GN'R. Even going forward, there appears to be bands to have established fan clubs and official forums that thrive and do really well. But none of this ever happened with GN'R. Getting Merck to engage, well, it wasn't a chore, but it was hard, and that's all there really was. But, after reading the Axl interviews years later, I just assumed the band, Axl mainly, just had too much going on in the background. Lawsuits, expectations of the record label, financial problems. An because the band was silent, there ended up being a lot of negativity and there ended up being a them and us type of scenario. Basically, what I saying is, a lot of the feelings people have today may stem from yesteryear, and TB have just been handed a baton from the last manager, and  have kept things going. 

I know someone is going to say, videos have been taken off youtube, it is TB's fault, blah blah blah, I'm just looking at things from a broader perspective. I'm just thinking, if the band are seen to have a successful tour, release a new album, then have another successful tour, then despite all the badness, there is, at least, some good work being done somewhere.

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Not for nothing, but is there a chance that these wouldn't happen so frequently and vigorously if we didn't talk about it all the time?

 

Trolls need attention to live.  Why would they ever stop getting shit pulled when they can see real time reactions here as soon as they do?  This person is a legend because of threads like this.  This is some of the most total and complete domination of a community by a troll that I have ever seen in my entire life.

I understand an accept that there may be a knee jerk reaction of "fuck you dude!" because this is an emotionally charged issue, and if you happen to be someone feeling said reaction, take a deep breath and honestly ask yourself if you believe in your heart of hearts that the situation would be exactly as it is now had there been NO REACTION whatsoever?  Maybe if we didn't incessantly jump when we were told, this person(s) would have fixated on something else.

 

Just a thought.

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Regardless of TB's involvement in the takedowns, I am sure they could help reduce the takedowns if they so wanted. But then we need to communicate with them to make them understand they aren't hurt form the presence of live videos on the internet. We must help them understand that it would be good for them if the takedowns stopped. What we shouldn't do is to continue to antagonize them by hurling abuse. That just pushes them away and makes them less likely to listen to reason. And less likely to make an effort to stop the takedowns out of affection for this fringe part of the fanbase. As it is, they seem fine with what is happening and surely aren't going to do anything to please us, and we are not doing much constructive in the way of changing this.

Basically, focus more on a solution than act all provoked over what is happening.

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15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Regardless of TB's involvement in the takedowns, I am sure they could help reduce the takedowns if they so wanted. But then we need to communicate with them to make them understand they aren't hurt form the presence of live videos on the internet. We must help them understand that it would be good for them if the takedowns stopped. What we shouldn't do is to continue to antagonize them by hurling abuse. That just pushes them away and makes them less likely to listen to reason. And less likely to make an effort to stop the takedowns out of affection for this fringe part of the fanbase. As it is, they seem fine with what is happening and surely aren't going to do anything to please us, and we are not doing much constructive in the way of changing this.

Basically, focus more on a solution than act all provoked over what is happening.

Sounds like you've been reading a book about how to treat difficult toddlers :P

Nothing we can do helps. Not being rude, not being nice. Most of us aren't hurling abuse, but they choose to focus on that. Fernando chose to come on here to communicate specifically with a poster who was really critical of him/TB/GNR. He doesn't choose to engage with people who are nice and respectful. They just get ignored. You can't blame people for trying to provoke you if you only react to provocations.

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1 minute ago, Lio said:

Sounds like you've been reading a book about how to treat difficult toddlers :P

Seems like there are toddlers on both sides in this conflict.

"Nothing we can do help"? I can't remember this fanbase ever being nice to TB... And yes, it is only a some fans that are abusive, but in this case the bad apples do spoil the whole damn bunch when the rest of us are pretty much silent and the others are so vocal and repetitive. Take this thread as an example, how many are actually trying to solve the problem compared to how many who just attack TB? And with "solve the problem" I am not including efforts to strong-arm TB into taking a public stance. What we are basically doing is making sure a solution to the problem will forever elude us by continuing to cause animosity between us and TB, which, I believe, is part of the reason why TB isn't interested in stopping the takedowns in the first place. It is a downward spiral and someone has to act like adults if we are to break away. Just blaming TB for their poor communication is simply not solving anything except perhaps make people feel transiently better.

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