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13 minutes ago, zombux said:

us "solve the problem" - yeah. for details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

What rational approach do you suggest to make TB change their stance on the takedowns? They apparently don't understand live videos could be of value to them, so to me it makes sense to talk to them about this and try to make them see the benefits. How is constant attacking them going to help this case, or future situations? It just doesn't make any sense to me why people who are upset about something act in ways that are contrary to a possible solution. 

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Just to add something to the table: I'm a graphic artist and I've recently put a YouTube channel focused on art and a instagram page. I've done an Izzy fanart and uploaded the video on the process of doing it to YouTube and Instagram with Izzy's Train Tracks as background music.

The video was removed both from YouTube and Instagram. 

I did another version of this video, this time just to see where it would go with 14 Years extended demo from one of the Illusion sessions, it was again removed from YouTube but not from Instagram.

What bugs me is: Do they have power even over Izzy songs?

JuJu Hounds was released by Geffen by the way.

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19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

They apparently don't understand 

I'd just shorten your post to just this. and I can't see why people should try talking to them about it, because they don't want to. actually people were trying to talk to them since the shit started (was it this Spring or the Spring last year? I don't remember) and all they got in reply was (in shortened form) F OFF. so there's clearly no point in further waste time trying to talk to them again and again.

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Just now, Lio said:

I honestly think it's a lost cause. It is what it is though.

+1 to this.

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39 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What rational approach do you suggest to make TB change their stance on the takedowns? They apparently don't understand live videos could be of value to them, so to me it makes sense to talk to them about this and try to make them see the benefits. How is constant attacking them going to help this case, or future situations? It just doesn't make any sense to me why people who are upset about something act in ways that are contrary to a possible solution. 

Well, the fact that they apparently don’t understand that live videos could be of value to them (as you’ve said) speaks for itself, doesn’t it. How a manager of a band does not understand such a basic thing in 2019 is beyond by comprehension. We’re not talking about some minor country band from highlands here. But ok.

And are we really constantly attacking them? All I see is this thread plus some others – it’s not like we’re sending all this text to the management via e-mail, is it. And if someone from TB happens to pop in, it’s up to them what they’ll choose to read and react to.

Also, the only two major responses I can remember – apart from the recent Beta’s – was from Del, which was utterly dismissive and ridiculous, and from Nando, which... well, we’ve seen it. He chooses ulterior communication anyway, Reddit and whatnot.

I see what you’re saying, but I believe honest attempts have already been made. Summarized, unbiased posts etc. What’s next?

 

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36 minutes ago, default_ said:

Just to add something to the table: I'm a graphic artist and I've recently put a YouTube channel focused on art and a instagram page. I've done an Izzy fanart and uploaded the video on the process of doing it to YouTube and Instagram with Izzy's Train Tracks as background music.

The video was removed both from YouTube and Instagram. 

I did another version of this video, this time just to see where it would go with 14 Years extended demo from one of the Illusion sessions, it was again removed from YouTube but not from Instagram.

What bugs me is: Do they have power even over Izzy songs?

JuJu Hounds was released by Geffen by the way.

I don't know how it works. There a lot of stuff online about it, there was even a story of a bands own official video being taken off their official youtube page by one of these takedowns.

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49 minutes ago, default_ said:

Just to add something to the table: I'm a graphic artist and I've recently put a YouTube channel focused on art and a instagram page. I've done an Izzy fanart and uploaded the video on the process of doing it to YouTube and Instagram with Izzy's Train Tracks as background music.

The video was removed both from YouTube and Instagram. 

I did another version of this video, this time just to see where it would go with 14 Years extended demo from one of the Illusion sessions, it was again removed from YouTube but not from Instagram.

What bugs me is: Do they have power even over Izzy songs?

JuJu Hounds was released by Geffen by the way.

Judging from this incident, Izzy isn't too happy about his songs being uploaded on youtube either:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/217054-wacky-world-of-the-ominous-ninja-izzy-stradlin-and-no-gang/?do=findComment&comment=4353429

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/217054-wacky-world-of-the-ominous-ninja-izzy-stradlin-and-no-gang/?do=findComment&comment=4361517

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/217054-wacky-world-of-the-ominous-ninja-izzy-stradlin-and-no-gang/?do=findComment&comment=4367100

Different reaction by the fans, though :lol:

 

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5 minutes ago, Lio said:

So we can't blame this on TB :(

Yeah. Maybe Izzy doesn't know how youtube works and that he can monetize the videos uploaded by others.

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1 hour ago, zombux said:

I'd just shorten your post to just this. and I can't see why people should try talking to them about it, because they don't want to. actually people were trying to talk to them since the shit started (was it this Spring or the Spring last year? I don't remember) and all they got in reply was (in shortened form) F OFF. so there's clearly no point in further waste time trying to talk to them again and again.

I do not get a "fuck off" when I talk to them, so I can't agree with this. We here at mygnrforum might get a "fuck off", so ask yourself, why is it so? Why are we here at this forum at this impasse and is there something we can do to normalize relations? We might not agree on what can be done to fix the issue, but I think we can all agree that hurling insults will only make things worse.

There is a disagreement between us and them in regards to the value of the youtube videos, and it is not a disagreement that cannot be resolved. But that requires communication. And perhaps our past history means we cannot communicate with them because they don't want to hear from us. Then why not make it so that they don't mind hearing from us in the future? Why cement the bad relations? We have zero to gain from that.

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1 hour ago, jamillos said:

I see what you’re saying, but I believe honest attempts have already been made. Summarized, unbiased posts etc. What’s next?

Maybe honest attempts at convincing them that have been made. I can't say I have seen any around here but I haven't read every single post either. But let's not give up, eh? There will be new disagreements between TB and us hardcore fans in the future, too, I am sure, and if we actually, really want to have some leverage in discussions and make them come round to our thinking, then we should make an effort of not poisoning the well of discourse through hurling insults now. Again, someone needs to be the adults here. 

30 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah. Maybe Izzy doesn't know how youtube works and that he can monetize the videos uploaded by others.

I have reason to believe TB doesn't know this, either. 

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I do not get a "fuck off" when I talk to them, so I can't agree with this. We here at mygnrforum might get a "fuck off", so ask yourself, why is it so? Why are we here at this forum at this impasse and is there something we can do to normalize relations? We might not agree on what can be done to fix the issue, but I think we can all agree that hurling insults will only make things worse.

There is a disagreement between us and them in regards to the value of the youtube videos, and it is not a disagreement that cannot be resolved. But that requires communication. And perhaps our past history means we cannot communicate with them because they don't want to hear from us. Then why not make it so that they don't mind hearing from us in the future? Why cement the bad relations? We have zero to gain from that.

The staff here has been more than outgoing with respect to TB. Their (TB) attitude in general towards the fans is "fuck off" though, and that's what upsets me. 

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8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I have reason to believe TB doesn't know this, either. 

Yeah, it's very likely they don't know, although I think the artists don't get much, if any, from youtube and it goes to the label if they're signed with one. I think Izzy hasn't had a label behind him, though, after the Ju Ju Hounds.

Edited by Blackstar

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3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

The staff here has been more than outgoing with respect to TB. Their (TB) attitude in general towards the fans is "fuck off" though, and that's what upsets me. 

I am impressed with what @downzy and his team has done since the takeover in trying to normalize relations with TB. Then it is a bit disappointing that it seems the towel has now been thrown in and whatever ground had been claimed is now abandoned. Not that I blame you guys for giving up, I am not privy to the discussions that have been had and what exactly has been said. It is just sad to see that we are back to year 0 so to speak.

As for their reaction to fans in general being "fuck off", I disagree. They definitely conflate groups of fans, like thinking every passionate fans is likely to be very critical of TB. Or that everyone who supports live videos are stealing from the band (like Margott). And so on. But there are enough examples of fans and TB having friendly relations, i.e. at meetings at shows.

What I fear though, is that the more abuse is hurled by us towards them, and the more they come across as unreasonable and unfriendly towards fans, the less are our chances of establishing a normal constructive relationship. I am sure that this whole takedown-debacle has just made TB more upset about the fanbase, and now considers that even more of the entire fanbase are against them. So it gets just worse and worse.

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5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, it's very likely they don't know, although I think the artists don't get much, if any, from youtube and it goes to the label if they're signed with one. I think Izzy hasn't had a label behind him, though, after the Ju Ju Hounds.

And if the artists doesn't get anything directly, then the benefits are more intangible and requires more sophisticated argumentation (like pointing to how live videos keep the fan base alive, how it created interest in live shows, etc). An additional problem is the belief among TB that not only are they not getting any revenues, but someone else is earning money from the videos.

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27 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I am impressed with what @downzy and his team has done since the takeover in trying to normalize relations with TB. Then it is a bit disappointing that it seems the towel has now been thrown in and whatever ground had been claimed is now abandoned. Not that I blame you guys for giving up, I am not privy to the discussions that have been had and what exactly has been said. It is just sad to see that we are back to year 0 so to speak.

As for their reaction to fans in general being "fuck off", I disagree. They definitely conflate groups of fans, like thinking every passionate fans is likely to be very critical of TB. Or that everyone who supports live videos are stealing from the band (like Margott). And so on. But there are enough examples of fans and TB having friendly relations, i.e. at meetings at shows.

What I fear though, is that the more abuse is hurled by us towards them, and the more they come across as unreasonable and unfriendly towards fans, the less are our chances of establishing a normal constructive relationship. I am sure that this whole takedown-debacle has just made TB more upset about the fanbase, and now considers that even more of the entire fanbase are against them. So it gets just worse and worse.

All I can do is disagree overall. 

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I am giving a joke away for free here but that Stalinist handshake picture of the Mygnr and Team Brazil fists is well overdue in this conversation? Somebody?

(I cannot find it!).

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Years ago when Axl played that small fashion show in NYC I think for some designer or whatever he responded to criticism about real/hardcore fans not being able to get in by saying something like 'I don't know what hardcore/real fans even means' with the implication that anyone who buys a ticket or a celeb or fashionista who just wants to hear sweet child is every bit as much of a fan. 

Someone here also had a backstage convo with Axl where Del kept trying to pull Axl away and the fan was trying to explain that the negativity and criticism online is 95% not hate and trolling but from caring deeply and being frustrated. Axl eventually told Del to leave it and seemed to at least think about what the fan was saying. But overall k think we're all just lumped into a nuisance category and not even considered anymore. 

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17 hours ago, Mysteron said:

Also, if it was Fernando on Reddit, why the hell post and annoy him into silence. Where is the sense in that. He was trying to be nice and give out information, but no, people have to go and criticise TB then he just disappears.

But he wasn't trying to be nice though, he was an absolute dick to everyone he spoke to, hence why he got the response that he did. It seemed he only opened a Reddit account so he could rage at anyone who said mean things about his toy trucks.

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There should not be even a fucking suggestion made by anyone that Fernando is anything but a complete and utter douchebag. Normal, well adjusted, "nice" people don't talk to others the way that he does.

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4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah. Maybe Izzy doesn't know how youtube works and that he can monetize the videos uploaded by others.

Yeah, my videos aren't monetized and he could do it if he wanted to... Izzy is just a simple man doing simple things. Maybe he didn't even want the monetization and chose to just delete it.

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3 minutes ago, default_ said:

Yeah, my videos aren't monetized and he could do it if he wanted to... Izzy is just a simple man doing simple things. Maybe he didn't even want the monetization and chose to just delete it.

Well, he said that his songs being posted on youtube amounted to his work being stolen, so maybe he believed that the uploaders monetized the videos.

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