Copyright Strikes....

[SoulMonster]

Just now, action said:

what do you mean, "who said I haven't"? Why acting like a douche about this? have you, or have you not? if you did, what were the results?

Well, you argued as if I hadn't been in contact with them, although the context of my last posts since yesterday, as well as Russ' recent posts, should have made it abundantly clear that I have. 

Nothing much I can share except suffice to say it is has informed my opinions on what we could possibly do to stop the takedowns and reestablish a working relationship that would be hugely beneficial to the fanbase. But I am a chronic optimist, I never really give up (on arguments or anything else). It could very well be that all hope is doomed and we should just revert to animals slinging feces.

 

[action]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Well, you argued as if I hadn't been in contact with them, although the context of my last posts since yesterday, as well as Russ' recent posts, should have made it abundantly clear that I have. 

Nothing much I can share except suffice to say it is has informed my opinions on what we could possibly do to stop the takedowns and reestablish a working relationship that would be hugely beneficial to the fanbase. But I am a chronic optimist, I never really give up (on arguments or anything else). It could very well be that all hope is doomed and we should just revert to animals slinging feces.

 

I don't disagree that we should always try to keep a healthy communication going. the fact that you have tried, is an important factor. Because, to communicate you have to be with two. One can try to keep communications going, but if the receiving party (TB in this case) isn't even interested in that, then you can try to find 1.000 more fans who also want to communicate: it don't change the fact that the receiver is not interested.

That's why your experience, first hand, is important to consider. If your intention is real, you would have already posted your experience large and wide on here.

But ok, you refuse to shed a light on your experiences with them. You're not genuinly concerned about this, you're just showing off and being half-mysterious about having had contact with TB. Ok then, move on guys. Nothing to see here. Next.

[MaskingApathy]

8 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

This! 

Because in terms of the L&L boxset we are not talking about „emotional“ topics any longer like individual views of people how a band should communicate with their fans or a band should allow concert footage on YT any longer. We are talking about - as you said - „robbing“ hard earned money from the hardcore fans on purpose. And that’s still unacceptable.

If they would have cut the price after one or two years, I would buy your „welcome to capitalism argument“ (I know it will come). But they didn’t. They cut the price after a very few weeks up to 50% and more and denied a refund. Of course, there is no legal entitlement to a refund. But also there is not a single reason why the hardcore fans shouldn’t be allowed to say „fuck you“ to band/TB for even alone this single bitch move! In fact, this move speaks volumes. 

I agree with you, but at the same time I think that is on the fans who were foolish enough to buy it at full price on the first day it was available. We all knew that it would be discounted sooner or later.

 

20 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

That is the opposite from me. I'd almost say if it wasn't for the bootlegs I would never have been a Guns fan, at least not to the degree I become (which is completely dissipated now  but that is besides the point). How could I be when they only have 4 bloody albums? Ritz and Deer Creek: that is the essence of the band, that sustained me as a fan. 

And my love of Stones and Shakey has increased greatly through boots. Couldn't see my fandom of the Stones be so passionate without those Stones '69-73 boots. Of course both those release ''official'' boots which Guns refuse to do.

Same 

 

45 minutes ago, action said:

I was never really interested in youtube videos to begin with. Not by guns n roses or others of my favorite bands. There are plenty of rare live performances and rare songs available all over youtube, by countless of bands. But somehow, I can't be bothered to watch them let alone download them.

I don't see much appeal in all of it.

I remember when that huge freddie boxset released in the year 2000, containing a gold mine of unheard freddie stuff. I listened to it maybe once or twice, thought it was cool, but then it sat on the shelf.

Same with concert DVD's: cool to view once, twice, but I ask myself: how much value does it "really" have?

If I look at my daily listening behaviour, it's always the same couple of albums I play, that I came to know and love.

There was a time, when I anxiously anticipated something like the newest GNR album. Then came out CD, I thought "meh", and since then it's hard for me to be excited by hype and unreleased stuff.

there is this certain quality, mystery and elusiveness to something that is "in the vault" and unreleased, and people wonder "how would that song sound", but part of the excitement is the wonder and imagination. The day CD released is the day my excitement died.

Pure, true enjoyment I get out of those same albums I play everyday.

Keep peace, where there is peace I say. Sit back, relax, enjoy your favorite albums. You will be a liberated person, the day you stop caring about this shit.

Just because you don't use YouTube very much doesn't mean that others don't. For me YouTube was the main place I could go to see live footage of GnR, both classic era and now, but it's all gone now. So for me it's a really big deal that it's no longer available.

[RussTCB]

37 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

Just because you don't use YouTube very much doesn't mean that others don't. For me YouTube was the main place I could go to see live footage of GnR, both classic era and now, but it's all gone now. So for me it's a really big deal that it's no longer available.

Yep, and that's why I've been so actively involved in this. 

Truth be told, I haven't watched a GNR video on YouTube in ages. I used to watch a ton from 07 and before, but I haven't used YouTube to watch GNR much since then. 

So overall, this really doesn't effect me directly. However, it really has a bad effect on many GNR fans and that's why it matters to me so much. 

[guitarpatch]

It’s a complicated issue. I don’t agree with the stance on YouTube/etc on a general music business level in 2019. I also don’t think anyone here is going to change that stance internally within the band/management as it pertains to Guns. That’s never been the way they’ve operated under any management team or lineup in the past. It’s isolated from outside forces 
 

It’s unfortunate as live shows/videos have kept the band’s online presence alive during dark periods. To turn their back on that experience now that they’re active and back playing large venues is really unfortunate. We’ll see what happens long term on that front if they fill that void in another way. Time will tell 

As far as forum/online relations. They don’t need us....right now. We’ll see when the crowd numbers subside and they want to release new music. They’ll need these types of fans then. With that number dwindling over the years and people becoming disinterested in that type of fandom with this act, it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out long term. You can see that somewhat from the lack of excitement from the recent leaks. I don’t think that happens 20 yrs ago. They’ve lost  engaged fans on that level because they haven’t been bothered to nurture the relationship. Other acts do this because it’s beneficial and they need them. Time will tell if that strategy pays off 

[Azifwekare]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I am not sure why you don't understand that what I am saying is not a complaint that no one has tried, but that we shouldn't give up on our efforts.

Why should we continue to make the effort and support the band/TB when they have quite clearly given up on us?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

That is the opposite from me. I'd almost say if it wasn't for the bootlegs I would never have been a Guns fan, at least not to the degree I become (which is completely dissipated now  but that is besides the point). How could I be when they only have 4 bloody albums? Ritz and Deer Creek: that is the essence of the band, that sustained me as a fan. 

And my love of Stones and Shakey has increased greatly through boots. Couldn't see my fandom of the Stones be so passionate without those Stones '69-73 boots. Of course both those release ''official'' boots which Guns refuse to do.

This. Bootlegs keep dead bands alive.

Edit: And oh yeah, I forgot... fuck TB!

Edited November 15, 2019 by Azifwekare

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

Why should we continue to make the effort and support the band/TB when they have quite clearly given up on us?

Because we are fond of live videos of the band and want to establish a functional relationship with the band. 

[Azifwekare]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Because we are fond of live videos of the band and want to establish a functional relationship with the band. 

Hence why people have already tried, but TB have made it very clear time and time again that they couldn't give a shit, and almost seem to take a perverse joy in the fanbase's misfortunes.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

Hence why people have already tried, but TB have made it very clear time and time again that they couldn't give a shit, and almost seem to take a perverse joy in the fanbase's misfortunes.

As I have said quite a few times, I don't think all hope is lost. And I am genetically wired against quitting. But I am not criticising those who have given up, I am just trying to rally people for another effort. We all want the same here. 

[janrichmond]

@SoulMonster Please stop 

[Voodoochild]

I just found out that I have one Copyright Strike in my channel over a reworked/remixed version of The Blues I posted several years ago. 

I had to pass through a fucking piracy/copyright test with an annoying Happy Tree friends video just to be able to upload another video. I hate this drama so much.

[Rovim]

22 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As I have said quite a few times, I don't think all hope is lost. And I am genetically wired against quitting. But I am not criticising those who have given up, I am just trying to rally people for another effort. We all want the same here. 

Church! "It's always too soon to quit" - Norman Vincent Peale

 

 

[Azifwekare]

36 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As I have said quite a few times, I don't think all hope is lost. And I am genetically wired against quitting. But I am not criticising those who have given up, I am just trying to rally people for another effort. We all want the same here. 

You're a real masochist aren't you? 

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Azifwekare said:

You're a real masochist aren't you? 

I like SoulMonster's attitude here, but I think he's maybe underestimating how little TB cares about hardcore fans. They're not gonna budge, they're not going to listen, and they have proved their policy is to reward those who conform to their backward methods of managing Axl/Gn'R and their only concern is Axl's interests and the Gn'R brand. That's it.

I really hope I'm wrong on this but there were too many cases where they've shown their true colors.

If anything Beta and Fernando should release a public apology for the way they've conducted themselves with the fans.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Rovim

[shotsfired cro]

On 15. 11. 2019. at 3:04 AM, axlvai said:

Time to hear some bootlegs from 1991 man. U need that. Forgive this shit. 

have entire collection 1986 - 1993  Being a fan 25 - 30 years makes you know even the rants between the songs per show by heart    Dead Horse intro from Rio?  Nothing, NOTHING will ever be like that

In general, Only Women Bleed from UYI era, It's alright as intro to November rain, Mother as intro to Paradise city...'With your ass in the air' YCBM...such great times!   Add occasional  Garden of eden, Breakdown, Locomotive, KOHD and LALD, Attitude (as only covers)

 

[KURT19]

14 hours ago, janrichmond said:

@SoulMonster Please stop 

Seriously.

Either tell us who you are and release the transcripts of your communications with TB or just stop.

This thread is giving me motion sickness.

[jamillos]

I imagine this is how a co-manager of HTGTH would sound like...

[Mysteron]

19 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

As I have said quite a few times, I don't think all hope is lost. And I am genetically wired against quitting. But I am not criticising those who have given up, I am just trying to rally people for another effort. We all want the same here. 

If the forum has tried, then I agree with everyone else, it is probably a waste of time.

I still see management as a bigger thing than the issues of individuals on a forum, (and I do not know much about YouTube), but as with the Irish fan, there seems to be a genuine, and passionate, response to something happening with GN'R, and it would be nice for them (TB), at some point, to address it.

I think talk of rallying people, and public apologies is a bit drama, but it'd be good for the situation to be resolved. An appropriate response, I think that's the wording

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

If the forum has tried, then I agree with everyone else, it is probably a waste of time.

There has been sporadic attempts at communicating with them since they took over the management, rarely with much success. Mostly because they are not interested in communicating directly with this part of the fan base. Communication simply isn't there strong suit. What they should do is hire a public relations person, a Bryn Bridenthal for this millennium. 

So developing a working relationship with them will not happen over night. But with the prospect of them managing GN'R for the next decade, and fandom being a long-lasting thing, I simply see no reason to not make an effort if there is a possibility of success - the rewards are too great. But this is of course something everybody must decide for themselves. I just wanted to say that not everybody has given up. Even knowing there is a great chance of it not working. But what's the fun in trying something that is easy?

Edited November 16, 2019 by SoulMonster

[Mysteron]

10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

There has been sporadic attempts at communicating with them since they took over the management, rarely with much success. Mostly because they are not interested in communicating directly with this part of the fan base. Communication simply isn't there strong suit. What they should do is hire a public relations person, a Bryn Bridenthal for this millennium. 

So developing a working relationship with them will not happen over night. But with the prospect of them managing GN'R for the next decade, and fandom being a long-lasting thing, I simply see no reason to not make an effort if there is a possibility of success - the rewards are too great. But this is of course something everybody must decide for themselves. I just wanted to say that not everybody has given up. Even knowing there is a great chance of it not working. But what's the fun in trying something that is easy?

Ok, honest opinion.

I think the fan forums of yesterday are being laid to waste and are now places where people are free to do and say whatever, but are ignored by the band, except when something bad happens.

I'm guessing, but I think the official fan forum (and social media) is now probably the place to address things with the band, although people say no one uses it. Never been there, so I don't know.

So, as a suggestion, if they are going down that path maybe that is an area TB could improve. 

I have no idea, but it's a suggestion

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Mysteron said:

Ok, honest opinion.

I think the fan forums of yesterday are being laid to waste and are now places where people are free to do and say whatever, but are ignored by the band, except when something bad happens.

I'm guessing, but I think the official fan forum (and social media) is now probably the place to address things with the band, although people say no one uses it. Never been there, so I don't know.

So, as a suggestion, if they are going down that path maybe that is an area TB could improve. 

I have no idea, but it's a suggestion

Yeah, I agree, and I haven't really talked about this forum but that I think we as hardcore fans, regardless of where we are (official forum, and unofficial forum, Facebook, other social platform, or real life when we meet them), shouldn't give up on communication just yet. 

And you are right, and I have stated this too, if you come from any of the forums you are likely to start off with a heavy handicap in any talks with them. Or just as a self-proclaimed hardcore fan. They are wary of hardcore fans. And to some extent they should be - it's full of nutters and unsavoury specimens! That being said, apparently they have no qualms about striking up friendships with the weirdest of the fans. Really odd. 

In the end I can't help concluding that our interests and the interests of TB overlap to a large degree (we both want GN'R to be successful), and thus what is causing the conflict is a breakdown of communication due to years of sedimenter distrust and misunderstandings and not contrary goals. And people being assholes. Surely this can be solved? Not necessarily in a day or two, and not necessarily without unfair compromises, but through a long-time diligent effort. Maybe they will grow more into their roles over time? I am not thinking of an organised effort or anything too idealistic and naive, just that we think about it one more time before giving up. I can't see we have anything to lose from it, but quite a lot to potentially gain. 

[Mysteron]

TB might think that true fans will join up to the fan club and be fans, and engage the forum. It's a small number on here compared to the few million who went to the concerts, it maybe acts as a filter.

I saw the DJ Ashba story and thought that set a tone to some degree as to a possible opinion towards the old forums.

I don't know, but centralising the long term fanbase seems a thing that they might do or consider now the band have reformed and consider themselves bigger and better than the pre CD years

 

 

 

[action]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

There has been sporadic attempts at communicating with them since they took over the management, rarely with much success. Mostly because they are not interested in communicating directly with this part of the fan base. Communication simply isn't there strong suit. What they should do is hire a public relations person, a Bryn Bridenthal for this millennium. 

So developing a working relationship with them will not happen over night. But with the prospect of them managing GN'R for the next decade, and fandom being a long-lasting thing, I simply see no reason to not make an effort if there is a possibility of success - the rewards are too great. But this is of course something everybody must decide for themselves. I just wanted to say that not everybody has given up. Even knowing there is a great chance of it not working. But what's the fun in trying something that is easy?

if TB is not interested in communicating with this part of the fanbase (your claim), then ignoring this and trying to communicate anyway, is bordering on stalking a bit.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. By your own acount, they are not interested in communicating. You think you are able to change their attitude?

The reasoning of a stalker.

"She's not interested in me, but if I keep calling here, she'll love me eventually"

.... ehhhh no. you'll just make a fool of yourself

Edited November 16, 2019 by action

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, action said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. 

Obviously. 

[Mysteron]

15 minutes ago, action said:

if TB is not interested in communicating with this part of the fanbase (your claim), then ignoring this and trying to communicate anyway, is bordering on stalking a bit.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. By your own acount, they are not interested in communicating. You think you are able to change their attitude?

The reasoning of a stalker.

"She's not interested in me, but if I keep calling here, she'll love me eventually"

.... ehhhh no. you'll just make a fool of yourself

Soulmonster was just saying if a group of people got together and talked to TB, something might happen. Other's have said, it doesn't work.

You accuse Soul of being a stalker.

These posts do not help, it is random and dramatic