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7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Because an Internet with live videos will lead to more fans, larger concert audiences, sustain the fanbase through dry spells, and through all of this lead to higher revenues. 

On a larger level, having a content fan core helps recruit new fans, creates buzz (because we promote the band for free), and can avoid unpleasant conflicts reaching the press which is bad for the brand. 

Probable more that I cant think of right now. 

Not being a bitch here but do you have any research or data based facts to support that opinion?

I read some of the stuff folks say and think, is that just what you think or have you really checked into the facts and have anything to back up what you say?  Maybe if the board wants to be taken more seriously, listened to, on what they offer up as helpful, they should back it up with facts, like articles, research, stuff like that.  Not that I think the band reads here but that may be why they don't feel the conversations are valuable to them and stopped being interested in what was being said on the boards.

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I have already talked about their views on live videos and although I don't mind repeating myself, a moderator has asked me to stop, so although I like to think a dissenting voice when respectful should be welcomed, I will do so out of respect to this forum. Just read my previous posts where I have talked about this. 

That's fine. One thing I'll add though: sometimes it's not just about money, it's also about control. Perhaps they want to control their content for whatever reason. Control seems to be a thing with Axl/the Gn'R camp and has been for decades now. Many corporate entities choose this approach.

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2 hours ago, cineater said:

Not being a bitch here but do you have any research or data based facts to support that opinion?

I read some of the stuff folks say and think, is that just what you think or have you really checked into the facts and have anything to back up what you say?  Maybe if the board wants to be taken more seriously, listened to, on what they offer up as helpful, they should back it up with facts, like articles, research, stuff like that.  Not that I think the band reads here but that may be why they don't feel the conversations are valuable to them and stopped being interested in what was being said on the boards.

There was a time when life was simpler eh :) 

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5 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

There was a time when life was simpler eh :) 

Yeah, I'm old school.  And still pissed off at losing my MTV, fuckers.

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34 minutes ago, cineater said:

Yeah, I'm old school.  And still pissed off at losing my MTV, fuckers.

Aye, back in the day when we all we had was a few tv channels

The boys and girls are a bit precious and sensitive these days with their interweb. People paying to going to concerts, fliming them on their phones instead of watching them. What is that about. 

God help society in 50 years time

- tongue in cheek banter with cin. 

Edited by Mysteron

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On 2019-11-15 at 8:44 AM, SoulMonster said:

this isn't about who is at blame, this is about getting over it because we realize that the benefits of establishing civil relations is worth more than petty squabbling. 

That would be wonderful and I truly hope that happens.  

That said, I'm not sure that such a path, if one exists, involves this forum or myself.  

I've tried to be as reconciling as possible while focusing on solutions and ways forward.  But it would seem there isn't much apparent interest or intent with management on those fronts, as any correspondence has been of late, at least in my opinion, counter-productive.  Attempts by myself to address and resolve matters have been returned with outright hostility and contempt for this forum.  I really don't have the time nor interest to invest anymore than I have in this.  

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23 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

Aye, back in the day when we all we had was a few tv channels

The boys and girls are a bit precious and sensitive these days with their interweb. People paying to going to concerts, fliming them on their phones instead of watching them. What is that about. 

God help society in 50 years time

I'm just thinking GNR live isn't that appealing on youtube and doesn't really help.  Granted the guys are in good shape for their age, there's still that age factor that is not hitting "the sex sells".  And while I don't really watch them, I assume the comments go pretty much along the lines of where threads here go, basically insult the band as they weren't like they were back in the day.  Live performances on Youtube may be a help to younger bands but for the older band I think it's probably working against.  But, I haven't researched that either so I can be wrong. :lol:

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6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

What they should do is hire a public relations person

That have one, or at least had one.  We use to have a relationship with their PR person.  It's how I was made aware and shared the news that Axl wasn't going to be appearing on Jimmy Kimmel back in January of 2016 to promote the upcoming reunion.  Then that person changed PR shops and all contact ceased.  As of late 2016 it was my understanding that this person still represented GNR but I have no way of confirming at this point.  What I suspect is that orders came down that all communications towards online fan outlets like ours should cease.  

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5 hours ago, Mysteron said:

I'm guessing, but I think the official fan forum (and social media) is now probably the place to address things with the band, although people say no one uses it. Never been there, so I don't know.

I whole heartedly agree. 

I still can't fathom why we exist in some respects.  GNR's official forum should have knocked this place off as the primarily place for fans to talk about all things GNR.  But it has been so poorly mismanaged (allowed bitter and racist posts to remain, poor discussion and member moderation) and run, with short-term business calculations (i.e., kept behind a paywall) that it has allowed this place, a relic of the pre-social media era, to remain viable and relatively popular among GNR fans.  I use to believe Facebook pages and groups would eventually sap energy from this forum but it's a completely different medium and not really well set-up for fan discussions (difficult to review topics and little to no anonymity).  

This place won't last forever, but it has continued despite the fact that other online destinations should have usurped its place a long time ago.  

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

And to some extent they should be - it's full of nutters and unsavoury specimens

I wouldn't say full.  It's the 90-10 problem.  90 percent of the problems are caused by 10 percent of the participants.  

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5 minutes ago, downzy said:

I whole heartedly agree. 

I still can't fathom why we exist in some respects.  GNR's official forum should have knocked this place off as the primarily place for fans to talk about all things GNR.  But it has been so poorly mismanaged (allowed bitter and racist posts to remain, poor discussion and member moderation) and run, with short-term business calculations (i.e., kept behind a paywall) that it has allowed this place, a relic of the pre-social media era, to remain viable and relatively popular among GNR fans.  I use to believe Facebook pages and groups would eventually sap energy from this forum but it's a completely different medium and not really well set-up for fan discussions (difficult to review topics and little to no anonymity).  

This place won't last forever, but it has continued despite the fact that other online destinations should have usurped its place a long time ago.  

Oh well. 

Just keep going and remain slightly maverick. I never realised. 

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5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

In the end I can't help concluding that our interests and the interests of TB overlap to a large degree

I thought so too, but recent communications have led me to believe otherwise.  I have made it fundamentally clear that fan forums such as ours should not interfere in the business of Guns N' Roses.  Previous administrations have made the mistake of involving themselves in the business of guns that I viewed as detrimental to said business.  

This and other places like it should serve as places to harness and promote positive fan energy to help fans and the band alike.  Yet despite our efforts the last three or four years it seems like we're never going to shake whatever impressions management has of this place and those who are most committed in supporting the band.  

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It feels weird. I think alot of us feel more at home on the forums. They feel safer. I don't know if that makes any sense. 

It'd be a shame for the band to abandon these places completely. I know social media is the new thing but I hate it. And the official site has forever been a running joke for 20 years. How can the band expect anyone here to go there 

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We had the randomness of the baseball people running the website for a while. That was odd

I wonder if the band reforming changed anything. 

Edited by Mysteron

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What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Some management, you just can't reach.
So, you get what we had here, last year.
Which is the way they want it, Well, they can get it
And I don't like them anymore, just like most fans.

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2 hours ago, Mysteron said:

It feels weird. I think alot of us feel more at home on the forums. They feel safer. I don't know if that makes any sense

I completely understand this dynamic.  Despite Facebook's efforts to provide limitations on access, it still feels as though what one posts in social media formats renders the author exposed to public and private scrutiny.  I really don't want my friends, families, business associates, or possible future employers aware or have access to my GNR fandom.   It's mine.  GNR forums (and other fan forums) allow fans to invest themselves in a way that's perhaps more comfortable and free than on platforms that can be sourced back to a name or face.  

2 hours ago, Mysteron said:

I wonder if the band reforming changed anything.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

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I’m afraid if you’re in the position of manager of such a huge band and some fan has to explain to you the advantages of internet videos, it may already be too late for that. 
It’s like a surgeon going:
"What’s this?"
"That’s a vein, sir."
"A what? Nonsense, never heard of. Let’s cut it."
"But sir – "
"Let’s cut it!"

Also, just how many times do you stick your hand through a fence to get bitten each time before you realize what you’re doing is idiotic? 
Years of patience. Yes, we’ve been there, done that. 
 

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12 hours ago, cineater said:

Not being a bitch here but do you have any research or data based facts to support that opinion?

I read some of the stuff folks say and think, is that just what you think or have you really checked into the facts and have anything to back up what you say?  Maybe if the board wants to be taken more seriously, listened to, on what they offer up as helpful, they should back it up with facts, like articles, research, stuff like that.  Not that I think the band reads here but that may be why they don't feel the conversations are valuable to them and stopped being interested in what was being said on the boards.

That live videos make fans happy and leads to promotion for a band that in return leads to new fans and interest in live shows, is self-evident, don't you think? For that reason together with methodological difficulties, I highly doubt there is many researchers or marketing people who have ever looked into this. That being said, you can find plenty of testimonial evidence for this in this very thread where fans have talked about live videos helping they through silent years, keeping their fan interest alive, and examples of bands with a quite contrary philosophy to live videos on the Internet - and they seem to be doing fine enough and have extra income as a result of it.

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8 hours ago, downzy said:

Previous administrations have made the mistake of involving themselves in the business of guns that I viewed as detrimental to said business. 

So, previous administrators here at mygnrforum interfered with GN'R business? Could you shed more light on this? I immediately think that maybe this could help explain the hostility the management has towards this forum.

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23 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Also, just how many times do you stick your hand through a fence to get bitten each time before you realize what you’re doing is idiotic? 

Years of patience. Yes, we’ve been there, done that. 

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums :lol: Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

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40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums :lol: Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

I think if GNR are going to ignore these forums, they should really develop their own forum so people do have a platform to communicate. It's not for me because I am used to these ones, but there should be somewhere. Social media isn't very well structured for that purpose. 

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45 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums :lol: Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

So on the one hand you’ve basically said we should tone it down, because they might pop in occasionally and make conclusions. On the other hand you’re saying that we should use some other platforms than the forum(s) for the communication, because this is their enemy territory anyway. See there’s a contradiction right there for me. If we use some other, private/social/whatever media, then why the heck couldn’t we talk some shit here in the meantime? (After all, that’s what it’s for, right?)

The other thing is, if you’ve been using your own way of communication, why won’t you share the progress with us? Having been asked here, you refused to do so. I don’t understand why. 
Look, we may be on the same side in the sense that I am basically a nice fella who doesn’t like neither violence nor acting like an asshole online. But for me, explaining patiently someone in such position the advantages of online videos for years is not the way to go. They either must have understood it by now, or they’re idiots. It’s not a crime to not understand these basic things, but it’s seriously stupid to be in such position and not know that (and refuse to hire someone who does) and act the way they have. 
If you want us to take you seriously, post your communication progress; otherwise, it’s just nice talk but no results. 

Explaining patiently maybe for years? You’ve gotta be kidding me...

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3 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

I think if GNR are going to ignore these forums, they should really develop their own forum so people do have a platform to communicate. It's not for me because I am used to these ones, but there should be somewhere. Social media isn't very well structured for that purpose. 

I think they have kind of tried that with Nightrain, but it was -- in kind words -- poorly executed.

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1 minute ago, jamillos said:

So on the one hand you’ve basically said we should tone it down, because they might pop in occasionally and make conclusions. On the other hand you’re saying that we should use some other platforms than the forum(s) for the communication, because this is their enemy territory anyway. See there’s a contradiction right there for me.

I wouldn't say it is a contradiction as such, more of a difficulty and one that has become more apparent throughout this thread especially now with downzy's revelations on how bad the situation is between TB and mygnrforum. That being said, and going back to my two-fold suggestion on what to do, I still maintain that the solution to overcoming the conflict is to use whatever back channels we have (and with "we" I am again not talking about only fans here but every hardcore fan anywhere) to communicate with them while at the same time we (again in that inclusive sense) think twice about whether that next ad hominem attack towards them helps the situation or just adds more bricks onto the wall between us.

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13 minutes ago, jamillos said:

The other thing is, if you’ve been using your own way of communication, why won’t you share the progress with us? Having been asked here, you refused to do so. I don’t understand why. 

Private conversation is private. Suffice to say I haven't made much progress in the sense that they have announced any change in philosophy or strategy, but that was kinda implied in my posts, wasn't it? But again, I don't think you can change anyone's opinion on such matters quickly. The GN'R organization is a heavy boat with many parts.

Edited by SoulMonster

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