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1 hour ago, Lio said:

Duff is clearly motivated by money. Izzy isn't there according to some of you solely because he didn't get an equal share. What's the difference? Such hypocrites.

Absolutely this!!! And If we go deeper we’ll find a ton of this kinda of hypocrisy w/ regard to the Izzy x The Big 3 saga! IMO, the main one is: “Do it for the fans” thing..:shrugs:

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They are all just ''in it for the cash'' at the end of the day. They have developed into some very greedy and corporate individuals indeed. According to Rose, Stradlin negotiated some lucrative payment fees when he played for newgnr and then there is his (quoting from memory) ''didn't pay enough loot'' tweet. McKagan is so obsessed with cash he even did a business degree! He seems to spend a lot of his free time in Gucci whilst flogging ''punk as fuck'' tat. Rose, this hitherto bad boy of rock, independent spirit, creative individual,

Image result for Axl Rose budweiser world cup gif

Enough said.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They are all just ''in it for the cash'' at the end of the day. They have developed into some very greedy and corporate individuals indeed. According to Rose, Stradlin negotiated some lucrative payment fees when he played for newgnr and then there is his (quoting from memory) ''didn't pay enough loot'' tweet. McKagan is so obsessed with cash he even did a business degree! He seems to spend a lot of his free time in Gucci whilst flogging ''punk as fuck'' tat. Rose, this hitherto bad boy of rock, independent spirit, creative individual,

Image result for Axl Rose budweiser world cup gif

Enough said.

 

 

What'cha mean 'developed into', when were they ever anything else? :lol:  When they were skint and on the streets and didn't have no fuckin' choice, yeah, well we're all 'independent spirits' then!  I wouldn't care if you actually got some decent music out of it.

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I doubt that they are motivated by money as much as you cynics think.

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End of day Izzy didn't even show up for the Troubadour show, I highly doubt large amounts of cash were thrown around for that show so money  shouldn't have been an excuse. I love Izzy but people need to realize he just doesn't like to tour....even on his own shit!

 

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47 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I doubt that they are motivated by money as much as you cynics think.

Almost everyone that gets to that level of wealth is.  it doesn't happen by accident, it takes commitment.

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Commitment to greed.  

Guns N' Roses are unfortunately little far removed from Kiss. 

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Almost everyone that gets to that level of wealth is.  it doesn't happen by accident, it takes commitment.

But not as much as you think. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but I think they are still in it for the art more so.

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13 minutes ago, EvanG said:

But not as much as you think. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but I think they are still in it for the art more so.

Art, yeah, of course :lol:

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Just now, Len Cnut said:

Art, yeah, of course :lol:

Yes, art. Fuck you and your family and the horse they rode in on. 

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18 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yes, art. Fuck you and your family and the horse they rode in on. 

What about the calvelry behind it Jake? :lol:  Art, do me a fuckin' favour, we're talking about pop music here :lol:

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

 Art, do me a fuckin' favour, we're talking about pop music here :lol:

So now music isn't art anymore? 

No sense here.

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, EvanG said:

So now music isn't art anymore? 

No sense here.

What, Guns n Roses?  I wouldn't exactly call that art, no.  I'd call that business, I don't see no fuckin' art going on there.  Music can be art but that doesn't mean to say all music is.

Edited by Len Cnut

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Just now, Len Cnut said:

What, Guns n Roses?  I wouldn't exactly call that art, no.  I'd call that business, I don't see no fuckin' art going on there. 

They have just spent more than two years playing shows around the world and giving it them all since the band reunited. Isn't that what artists/musicians do? Sure, they've made a lot of money out of it, good for them, but I'm not going to think that money was the sole motivation. They would have done it a lot more half assed and they wouldn't have been doing more than three hour shows. How can you look at Slash doing a half hour guitar solo and completely losing himself, and think he's doing it for the money? But by all means, think whatever you want.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, EvanG said:

They have just spent more than two years playing shows around the world and giving it them all since the band reunited. Isn't that what artists/musicians do? Sure, they've made a lot of money out of it, good for them, but I'm not going to think that money was the sole motivation. They would have done it a lot more half assed and they wouldn't have been doing more than three hour shows. How can you look at Slash doing a half hour guitar solo and completely losing himself, and think he's doing it for the money? But by all means, think whatever you want.

I don't believe that pop music can be considered art.  The primary function of pop music is to sell records, its a commercial enterprise.  Yes, they are making music but just because someone makes music or writes songs does not make them an artist.  A craftsman perhaps, in the case of a songwriter?  This is an on-going commercial enterprise where you are being sold something, not just in terms of the physical music but an image, an idea, thats about the long and short of it.  There are very very very few people in the sphere of mainstream popular music that you could consider artists, if there are any at all.  Its a cynical industrial set up and the last fucking thing on their minds is art.  In the 20th century, or more accurately the post war era of pop culture, there has been a deliberate broadening of the parameters of what is art because it makes a lot of people a lot of money to sell this idea to kids that the cookie cutter claptrap that they listen to is art, it began somewhere around The Beatles times.  So art has come to mean, oh, anything that people make, which is bullshit and there to be exploited and often is.

And I don't think it does us any favours either.  Look at the post war era, who are the great artists of that time?  The great thinkers?  This lowering of the bar of what is art results in cultural stagnation.  How the fuck did I get off onto this tangent? :lol: 

But nah, yeah, Guns n Roses is art, whatever.

Edited by Len Cnut

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't believe that pop music can be considered art.  The primary function of pop music is to sell records, its a commercial enterprise.  Yes, they are making music but just becomes someone makes music or writes songs does not make them an artist.  A craftsman perhaps, in the case of a songwriter?  This is an on-going commercial enterprise where you are being sold something, not just in terms of the physical music but an image, an idea, thats about the long and short of it.  There are very very very few people in the sphere of mainstream popular music that you could consider artists, if there are any at all.  Its a cynical industrial set up and the last fucking thing on their minds is art.  In the 20th century, or more accurately the post war era of pop culture, there has been a deliberate broadening of the parameters of what is art because it makes a lot of people a lot of money to sell this idea to kids that the cookie cutter claptrap that they listen to is art, it began somewhere around The Beatles times.  So art has come to mean, oh, anything that people make, which is bullshit and there to be exploited and often is.

And I don't think it does us any favours either.  Look at the post war era, who are the great artists of that time?  The great thinkers?  This lowering of the bar of what is art results in cultural stagnation.  How the fuck did I get off onto this tangent? :lol: 

But nah, yeah, Guns n Roses is art, whatever.

When I write a song, paint a picture, write a poem, or whatever, in all sincerity, and then I go and sell it for someone else to enjoy it, I am not an artist? Is that your logic? Ok, I don't agree at all.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, EvanG said:

When I write a song, paint a picture, write a poem, or whatever, in all sincerity, and then I go and sell it for someone else to enjoy it, I am not an artist? Is that your logic? Ok, I don't agree at all.

I am questioning the sincerity.  Take 10 Hair metal bands at random.  Or 10 punk bands.  Or 10 GnR-esque bands.  All singing about broadly the same thing, the same themes, ideas, cliches, motorcycles, big tits, drinking, fast cars...or, I dunno, angst, anger, bucking 'the system', all these people, across the board, in all sincerity, are expressing a true and sincere expression of their heart and soul?  They all just happen, by chance, to be writing and singing about the same stuff?  You think when people sit down and write songs they don't have commercial considerations?  The Beatles, my favourite band of all time, openly admit (and more power to em) that a HUGE chunk of their material was written with expressly commercial considerations i.e. young girls will buy it.  Is that the sincerity you were talking about?  These artists driven by the desire to express the deepest recesses of their heart and soul just happen to be selling you scented candles and beach towels to you too?  And this is all to do with art?  Of course it is :lol:

Edited by Len Cnut

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EvanG said:

But not as much as you think. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but I think they are still in it for the art more so.

I really believe from all of them Slash is the less money driven character, he obviously got money to afford a lifestyle, but in the end hes the only one constantly touring and doing his art, be it movies or music, hes still loyal to most of what he always stand for.

Of course he said hed only be back in GNR with the AFD5, but I think he saw all this as a window for that.

Edited by default_
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1 minute ago, default_ said:

I really believe from all of them Slash is the less money driven character, he obviously got money to afford a lifestyle, but in the end hes the only one constantly touring and doing his art, be it movies or music.

I believe Slash is the most money driven....every note he plays is like his child support depends on it.

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I am questioning the sincerity.  Take 10 Hair metal bands at random.  Or 10 punk bands.  Or 10 GnR-esque bands.  All singing about broadly the same thing, the same themes, ideas, cliches, motorcycles, big tits, drinking, fast cars...or, I dunno, angst, anger, bucking 'the system', all these people, across the board, in all sincerity, are expressing a true and sincere expression of their heart and soul?  They all just happen, by chance, to be writing and singing about the same stuff?  You don't think when people sit down and write songs they don't have commercial considerations?  The Beatles, my favourite band of all time, openly admit (and more power to em) that a HUGE chunk of their material was written with expressly commercial considerations i.e. young girls will buy it.  Is that the sincerity you were talking about?  These artists driven by the desire to express the deepest recesses of their heart and soul just happen to be selling you scented candles and beach towels to you too?  And this is all to do with art?  Of course it is :lol:

I can't say anything with certainty because I don't know any of the ARTISTS I listen to personally. But I do think that they all write music in sincerity. And that is what art is to me... expressing your emotions, whether it's by putting words onto a piece of paper, playing chords and writing music, making a movie, or drawing figures on a canvas. What you do with that doesn't matter... whether you sell it or you put it in your basement for no one to ever hear or see. But that is the difference between you and me... I'm less cynical, I think most musicians are sincere and not in it for the money. Of course there are plenty of people who make something purely for commercial reasons, but I don't think that applies for most of the ARTISTS I admire. But it's been a long time since I listened to Westlife.

Oh, and when I think about it, I hardly listen to bands that sing about motorcycles, big tits, drinking and fast cars. I'm also not into hip hop as much as you, so...

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13 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I can't say anything with certainty because I don't know any of the ARTISTS I listen to personally. But I do think that they all write music in sincerity. And that is what art is to me... expressing your emotions, whether it's by putting words onto a piece of paper, playing chords and writing music, making a movie, or drawing figures on a canvas. What you do with that doesn't matter... whether you sell it or you put it in your basement for no one to ever hear or see. But that is the difference between you and me... I'm less cynical, I think most musicians are sincere and not in it for the money. Of course there are plenty of people who make something purely for commercial reasons, but I don't think that applies for most of the ARTISTS I admire. But it's been a long time since I listened to Westlife.

Oh, and when I think about it, I hardly listen to bands that sing about motorcycles, big tits, drinking and fast cars. I'm also not into hip hop as much as you, so...

Well I guess this is where we differ.  As I said, there are very very very few people in the sphere of mainstream popular music that I would consider artists, if there are any at all.

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