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Towelie

Question for the 87-93 purists... Would you consider a new album by the current lineup as a legitimate follow up to UYI?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Towelie said:

Do you really think Duff is more deserving of being considered one of the "big three" over a primary songwriter like Izzy?

that question deserves a thread of its own !

Edited by donny

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Guns N’ Roses to me, should at least comprise of Axl’s vocals and Slash’s guitar. Take either of those thing away, and it’s not GN’R. That said, I like a lot of CD, but I don’t really consider it Guns N’ Roses because it lacks Slash’s distinct guitar tones and style. 

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5 minutes ago, donny said:

 

that skinny chic with blue hair adds nothing keyboard wise to the band, i don't even think its switched on but her singing voice sounds ok. 

her and Axl doing a duet would be good and wouldn't be as gay as Ax and Duff singing a romantic song together. 

 

... the guy with an Ashba avatar tells us that a song with Axl and Duff sharing vocals would be gay.

Congratulations. Your post is the most stupid one I have been reading here in a long time. And this means a lot. 

 

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Posted (edited)

They have as many original members now as they did when Gilby and Matt were in the band, so I would say yes.  Then again I am not a "AFD5 or bust" guy so the premise of this thread may not apply to me as much

 

I still wobble when it comes to CD and "real GNR".  Personally I still consider it more of an Axl thing than a Guns thing - because the album was not rooted instrumentally in the personalities that made up the sonic foundation of what GNR was the entire time.  With Slash and Duff, you have a huge chunk of what GNR always was, very much present

 

If TSI? was GNR, a new album from this current lineup will be GNR

Edited by WhazUp
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6 hours ago, Towelie said:

Do you really think Duff is more deserving of being considered one of the "big three" over a primary songwriter like Izzy?

Maybe, maybe not. However...

6 hours ago, default_ said:

I dont think so. But Duff became one of the "big three" for because he was one of the three original members that were there at their popularity peak. People recognizes Duff as a GNR member, while most used to think Gilby was Izzy. lol

and

1 hour ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

From a public perception POV? Absolutely. Duff was there for the massive UYI vids, supporting World Tour, VRs success, and now again for NITL. Toss in the columns, successful books, model wife, musician daughter, connection to the Seattle scene, etc., and his public profile is much larger than Izzy’s (who is more of a “loner hero” to diehards/critics- seemingly by choice)...

Another way of looking at it is was it a bigger deal to the general public/media when Izzy played with Chinese Guns or Duff? I would certainly say the latter (Duff)...

Him being there during that period after Izzy left makes him more big 3 to me than Izzy, although I would love for him to return.

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10 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

... the guy with an Ashba avatar tells us that a song with Axl and Duff sharing vocals would be gay.

Congratulations. Your post is the most stupid one I have been reading here in a long time. And this means a lot. 

 

my Ashba avatar could be because i worship him or i'm taking the piss out of him. take it whichever way you like :) 

but apart from that, what connection does Ashba have to the gay community ? how did my avatar and my comment become connected ? 

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29 minutes ago, donny said:

 

but apart from that, what connection does Ashba have to the gay community ? how did my avatar and my comment become connected ? 

think about it. 

question (NO answer necessary): how did two members of band performing one of their songs togethther become connected to the gay community, especially more connected than the peacock shown in your avatar?! 

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Beware - gay porn! Soon to be deleated: 

Sweaty and intense performance of Axl n Duff in public 😆

 

  • GNFNR 1

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People put too much emphasis on a name.  CD is a GnR album, CD isn't a GnR album!  It isn't a GnR album without Izzy!  It isn't a GnR album without the original 5!

 

Blah blah blah.

 

If the music is good who cares what it's called?  Why let a name get in the way of your enjoyment of something?

 

Are you really going to enjoy something less on principle because Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard, Dizzy, Frank and Melissa put out an album under the name Guns n Roses?

 

Did Axl releasing Chinese Democracy under the name Guns n Roses make you enjoy it any more or less?

 

Let the music speak for itself, if it's good it's good!  Who cares what the name on the box says.  If you don't like it, you don't.  You don't have to, there are millions of albums out there for you to find the ones you enjoy.  There is so much beautiful music in the world to listen to, ya know?  

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1 hour ago, zigzagbigbag said:

think about it. 

question (NO answer necessary): how did two members of band performing one of their songs togethther become connected to the gay community, especially more connected than the peacock shown in your avatar?! 

have you been sniffing them german diesel fumes or are you a crackhead ? 

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Posted (edited)

I get that some people want the old days to return but topic threads as these are redundant and are based on fantasy rather than reality. 

Life takes you along many different roads and people choose to take many different paths along the way. 

I am not sure why any one cares if it's a legitimate follow up to UYI. 

Yes, there will be people that will see it as a legitimate follow up, but also there will be people who don't know about the bands history, don't care or see things differently based on the current state of the band and its current members at this present point in time. 

Thats ok. Same thing if you think it's not a legitimate follow up based on not having curtain members in the band compared to current members. 

That's ok to. 

People on this forum are a small manority and get themselves all court up in things they cannot control. 

You cannot change the past and you cannot control the path other people choose to take in life. 

It is what it is. 

Let me know if any of you invent time travel, and you plan to go back in time and change the path of Guns N Roses and curtain band members. I will than check into see if the current state of the band has changed. 

Edited by kiwiguns

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10 minutes ago, donny said:

have you been sniffing them german diesel fumes or are you a crackhead ? 

Both. 

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Posted (edited)

If it's been over 10 years and you still can't get over the fact that CD was released under the GN'R name, or after almost 30 years can't get over the fact that Steven and Izzy aren't in the band... that sounds like a whole lot of your problem.

Edited by Azifwekare
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20 hours ago, Towelie said:

It's all their in the title, really.

I used to be one of those fans who genuinely considered Chinese Democracy a GNR record, but something about watching Axl trying to push these songs as GNR ad nauseam for the last 20 years, to diminishing results in terms of the quality of performances etc, has left a bitter taste in my mouth. Contrast that with Slash, who routinely releases good quality shit and sounds a hell of a lot more like 87-93 GNR with both VR and SMKC than Chinese Democracy ever did, I have a hard time agreeing with my former stance on CD being a legitimate Guns album.

So, whilst I have slowly come around to a more purist POV with Guns, I still think the fans who insist that even UYI isn't truly GNR (because of the lack of Steven Adler) are insane!

So my question to the purists, would you consider an Axl/Slash/Duff and friends album a legitimate follow up after the fraudulent GNR album that was Chinese Democracy?

 

The problem with CD era/ New GN'R was all mess around it. An album 10 years in the making, the many managers, producers and band members. It makes is a farce at the end. I'm sure Axl wanted things to be different. But it didn't work. I don't like most of the songs on CD. It is not a GN'R for me. But if others love the album. I'm fine with it. I'm not going to tell people what album they should like.

I wouldn't call myself a purist because I like the UYI line up with Sorum playing drums, Gilby Clark playing guitar and Dizzy playing keybords. But also in that case I love the UYI album. That's not the case with CD as I pointed out. If it was up to me I would have the AFD line up. I very much enjoy this reunion tour until it became silly with the same set list, a whole bunch of covers and Axl's voice problems. I don't know if I'm going to like an album with Axl, Slash and Duff. First I have to listen to that album in order to answer the question. There is no such album yet.

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Posted (edited)

When AFD came out the 5 guys in that band seemed to me to be irreplaceable. They were in the videos, the magazine posters, the AFD booklet photos ,  interviews etc, so that to me defined who gnr were and are back in 88 when i was 13. So on an emotional sense considering how much AFD meant to me then the music and those 5 guys made an emotional connection to me.

Fast foward to 1990 when steven was out and matt sorum was in and so was dizzy i had no idea whether this lineup would be as ghood as AFD era. When i got the UYI records as soon as they came out and saw a photo of natt and dizzy in the illusion booklet photos i thought how is this going to sound. After listening to those albums back to back the question of whether dizzy and matt were legitimate members was never a question in my mind. Though i did follow steven in interviews when he joined davey vain and was part of the band roadcrew. With dizzy and matt in interviews and photos i accepted them and was never an issue even when gilby came in because izzy was still doing interviews when he put ju ju hounds together, so i still followed izzy.

What i consider gnr is axl and slash. Axl has always stated in interviews the business end of guns was always decided by both axl and slash. I can accept fortus but thats where i draw the line. Sorum may not have had stevens swing but his drumming i always liked. Its like every member during the illusions period who came in, came with a set of muscianship that enabled the band to rise higher than the AFD lineup. Mel and frank dont take guns musically to another level and frank doesnt have the skills nor the coolness factor of both steven and sorum to help the band go higher. I can take fortus but thats where i draw the line.

Edited by Sydney Fan
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I guess it will be Gn'R but am album with Melissa, Frank, Fortus and Axl's current voice doesn't excite me. Never mind if Axl's head  is anywhere near where it was writing CD.. If the music sounds liek that, then I am all set...  The whole "reunion" was 10 years too late and the album will be 15 years too late...

A Guns reunion was what I had wished for more than anything in rock for 20 years.. It was euphoric when it started happening.. Then the lineup ended up 1/2 sucking.. Sure it is fun to go see them live but anyone who says this lineup sounds top notch is fooling themselves..

I could give a rats ass if the NITL lineup releases an album or not at this point.. Will I buy it?  Of course.. But my expectations aren't very high. 

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16 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

I guess it will be Gn'R but am album with Melissa, Frank, Fortus and Axl's current voice doesn't excite me. Never mind if Axl's head  is anywhere near where it was writing CD.. If the music sounds liek that, then I am all set...  The whole "reunion" was 10 years too late and the album will be 15 years too late...

A Guns reunion was what I had wished for more than anything in rock for 20 years.. It was euphoric when it started happening.. Then the lineup ended up 1/2 sucking.. Sure it is fun to go see them live but anyone who says this lineup sounds top notch is fooling themselves..

I could give a rats ass if the NITL lineup releases an album or not at this point.. Will I buy it?  Of course.. But my expectations aren't very high. 

We are talking studio Axl though. He sounded really good on the Rock the Rock song. Same concept with studio James Hetfield who sounded terrific on Hardwired but is very spotty live. I'd love more Metallica albums but don't care to watch any live vids of theirs anymore.

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1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

We are talking studio Axl though. He sounded really good on the Rock the Rock song. Same concept with studio James Hetfield who sounded terrific on Hardwired but is very spotty live. I'd love more Metallica albums but don't care to watch any live vids of theirs anymore.

I hear ya.. Studio is a different animal and they will have ways to have Axl sound better.  Honestly thought I though Rock the Rock was pretty lame and anyone can sound good when you layer 15 vocal tracks over each other.. I didn't like that.

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3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I guess it will be Gn'R but am album with Melissa, Frank, Fortus and Axl's current voice doesn't excite me.

IMO what you're going to get is the current lineup + Axl's voice from the CD era sessions. 

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

IMO open what you're going to get is the current lineup + Axl's voice from the CD era sessions. 

I really really hope you're wrong about the CD voice being used giphy.gif

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6 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I really really hope you're wrong about the CD voice being used giphy.gif

:lol:

I hear ya. I really think he sounds fine on stuff like Better, Sorry, IRS & TWaT. Those are just some off the top of my head that I'd be fine with him sounding like. 

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

:lol:

I hear ya. I really think he sounds fine on stuff like Better, Sorry, IRS & TWaT. Those are just some off the top of my head that I'd be fine with him sounding like. 

It would be a total "WTF moment" if the first new GNR song we hear, has vocals from 1999. It would be bizarre, yet not really unexpected. :lol:

 

Honestly though I expect any vocals will be a mix of old and new, and probably be layered to death (like Rock The Rock). He sounds good on the songs you mentioned, but when I read people complain about the "CD voice" I assume they're referring to his vocals on Catcher or If The World, but I thought his clean voice sounded good on those songs too.

Rock The Rock sounded good, but he still clearly sounded like 'modern' Axl, and anything he recorded in 2010 or earlier is gonna sound better than what he can do now. And like Tom-Ass said, anyone can sound good when you layer a bunch of tracks over one another. At the very least, if they're gonna layer a bunch of vocal takes, I hope they add Duff and Melissa's vocals into that mix.

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18 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Beware - gay porn! Soon to be deleated: 

Sweaty and intense performance of Axl n Duff in public 😆

 

Haha. I love that clip so much, and the Tokyo vids in general. They’re so utterly ridiculous, and yet beautiful at the same time. Lived on those damn things through the whole 90s waiting on Guns news...:lol:

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Posted (edited)

For me, whether I like the new material it or not, a current record would be 'close enough' to be considered legitimate GN'R.

Despite the GN'R name on the packaging, CD was no different than any of the solo material released by IZZY, SLASH, DUFF or STEVEN. Had any of those guys retained and used the GN'R name instead of AXL, then their material would 'technically' be considered as GN'R while being no different than it is today.

New material would involve heavy participation from 3 of the classic core members thus would be close to as legitimate as UYI was, which pretty much omitted STEVEN completely.

Of course IZZY's lack of participation would hurt, but it wouldn't qualify it as completely illegitimate.

We all know the pro-IZZY faction disagrees completely, but I've always felt that when it comes to the mainstream fan -- which constitute the largest percentage of fans -- the 2 most important ingredients are AXL and SLASH. When both are part of band, overall fan interest is much, much higher than when 1 of the 2 are absent.

Doesn't matter how much the music suffers from the absence of <insert name here>. AXL + SLASH = GN'R to the overwhelming majority.

Because of the above, a new album involving just the 2 of them would be a legit follow up. Adding DUFF into the mix raises that level even more.

Now go get IZZY and STEVEN too ;)

 

Edited by thunderram

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If you ask 100 GnR fans this question, you will get 100 different answers.  There really is not definitive "right" or "wrong" answer.  For the record, I'd love to see Izzy in the mix, but on a personal level, Slash and Axl are 90% of what makes it a GnR song.

 

^^^ Having said that, the one thing that is driving me insane is the commonly held, and repeated belief that any songs that Axl wrote and has been tinkering with from the CD days would be a waste of time and/or garbage and not a real GnR song.  I think that flies directly in the face of GnR history and precedent. Songs like Don't Cry and November Rain are songs that were written long before their release, or "leftovers." That did not make them bad songs by any means.  It has also been common in the past catalogue for songs to be written by Axl, tinkered with by Axl and then passed to Slash to add the finishing touches.  It's a process that works.  dismissing a song off the bat because it went through the same process as many of their other classic tunes is short sighted, and ignoring the bands history.

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