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Question for the 87-93 purists... Would you consider a new album by the current lineup as a legitimate follow up to UYI?

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10 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I'd imagine they were, but I dunno how it all works so i could be wrong. @Blackstar any ideas on this?

I think Azoff had booked a tour so there were contracts, but Axl would have toured CD anyway in 2009-10.

I don't think there were any contracts for the tours after that, in 2012-14, so it would have been a choice. Going by Pitman's lawsuit (also by the leaked e-mail list - I don't think it's reliable, but in this case it confirms Pitman's allegations), NuGnR the business wasn't doing well financially around 2010-11. And, most likely, the members were on salary, so probably Axl had to do more tours to make money for the band (that doesn't mean that he didn't enjoy the shows, too).

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40 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

I wonder how much money Axl was making doing these shows?  It couldn't have been much really.   Maybe he felt a responsibility for the other guys in the band monetarily speaking.  But he had to be thinking "jeez, why am I doing these shows?"

I'm glad he did. Seeing them in such a small venue was really cool

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41 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

 I bet, where did you see them?

Fillmore Theater in Detroit

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9 hours ago, Creed said:

UYI had the perfect GNR sound. it was actually overproduced, but somehow it was just perfect like that. And with Melissa, Frank and 4tus it wont sound perfect. 

That's the spirit!!

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I seriously doubt a new record would have much of Smurfette Melissa on it.  Frank is a downgrade from Matt and/or Steven.  Fortus is just another Gilby, so that's fine I guess since Izzy "Izzn't" in the picture sadly. 

The magic of AFD will never be recovered without Steven or Izzy involved.  But also because these guys aren't crawling out of the gutter anymore, hungry to take on the world.  Money, fame, and age all play a part in it.  They have an Appetite for their 401k now.

Any new record would likely be a lesser version of the UYI records.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

That's an interesting retelling of history. 

They played bowling alleys because they wanted to play a bunch of intimate shows, they weren't forced into it because of poor ticket sales. And I know the arenas in America weren't full but we're still talking mostly 3/4 full arenas, with the occasional sell out or less than 3/4 sold. 

Gnr were still playing double nights in London, and selling out throughout Europe, selling thousands of tickets in SA, and doing great in the Asian territories, they were no way near stadiums but they were still a huge band, doing good, but not spectacular business.

Finally, I never suggested Slash wasn't a huge fan favourite and that he brings a lot of fans back! I just meant that there are a lot of great players out there, and there are not that many great frontmen! So while I love Slash he is far more replaceable... Had gnr replaced Axl they'd be where Skid row are today. Axl could still go out with another version of GNR and do well, the rest of the guys could not do that, even if they were allowed the use of the gnr name.

Lets be honest if slash left the band, axl and whatever form of gnr he would put together can kiss playing arenas and stadiums goodbye. The fans now after nitl,  casuals and certainly purists,  wont accept anything less. With ashba in the band, the band were a complete joke and axl really took the gnr brand and flushed it down the toilet. 06 was where some small fans were becoming open on what that lineup could acheive, but people no longer cared or lost interest.

Edited by Sydney Fan

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13 hours ago, Towelie said:

If guitar players are so easily replaceable, why did Guns go from playing bowling alleys and half filled arenas to stadiums upon Slash’s return?

 

This is a real glass houses argument though.  Why was Slash doing the exact same thing without Axl?  I've said it once, and I'll say it 1,000 times more.  Axl and Slash are peanut butter and chocolate, they are great alone, but when combined, they make something very special.  People can have an opinion over which is more important to them on a personal level, it's simply taste and can't be argued with.  To me, personally, it's not GnR without Axl.  However, I can recognize that that isn't the case for everyone, and we have actual metrics showing, beyond the shadow of all doubt that when combined, more people want to see  them then either of them separate.

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3 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

 and axl really took the gnr brand and flushed it down the toilet. 

Based on the NITL sales there is nothing that implies the brand was damaged. One might argue Axl kept the brand alive (and people wanting more). 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Based on the NITL sales there is nothing that implies the brand was damaged. One might argue Axl kept the brand alive (and people wanting more). 

Nitl was the second highest grossing tour. More than during the nuguns era. Axl kept the brand alive because he had no choice. He was tied to it. He was the only original member left. He took control of whatever the word or brand "guns n roses" meant. One could argue slash kept the gnr brand, and spirit,  going from 2010 onwards.

From an interview with slash in 2000

Is it really Guns N’Roses without him in the band?

He thinks for a moment.

« I can’t answer that. I just wish the fucker would get the fuckin’ record out so I could see why he took something so cool and systematically, destroyed it. I want to hear where he was headed, and what he was trying to communicate that none of us in the band could relate to. »

 

 

Edited by Sydney Fan
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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 9:36 PM, metallex78 said:

Guns N’ Roses to me, should at least comprise of Axl’s vocals and Slash’s guitar. Take either of those thing away, and it’s not GN’R.

 

This is the reality of it all. SLASH and AXL both have to be involved or it wouldn't attract the same attention.

We saw that with the NuGN'R lineup, And once SLASH came back into the mix, it went to another level in terms of fan interest.

Even though, as @Tom-Ass points out, the currently lineup with Melissa and Frank isn't great, it still is drawing good crowds. Because SLASH and AXL are there. Take one away and it's gone.

Each original member added in raises fan interest, of course, but nowhere near the same level as those 2.

Although, at this point, if IZZY was suddenly involved, I think it would be bigger than it is now ... at least for a little while.

Edited by thunderram
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15 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Nitl was the second highest grossing tour. More than during the nuguns era. Axl kept the brand alive because he had no choice. He was tied to it. He was the only original member left. He took control of whatever the word or brand "guns n roses" meant. One could argue slash kept the gnr brand, and spirit,  going from 2010 onwards.

From an interview with slash in 2000

Is it really Guns N’Roses without him in the band?

He thinks for a moment.

« I can’t answer that. I just wish the fucker would get the fuckin’ record out so I could see why he took something so cool and systematically, destroyed it. I want to hear where he was headed, and what he was trying to communicate that none of us in the band could relate to. »

 

 

 

That's an interesting quote now that Slash has played the majority of CD songs live and praised them and Bucket's guitar work. Now he can relate to what Axl was trying to do, it just took a long time.

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10 minutes ago, Stro said:

 

That's an interesting quote now that Slash has played the majority of CD songs live and praised them and Bucket's guitar work. Now he can relate to what Axl was trying to do, it just took a long time A LOT OF MONEY

Fixed

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:42 AM, Edward Nygma said:

You could say that's an apples and oranges argument because Slash was playing those sort of venues before he rejoined Guns. I've never understood this argument from Guns fans. The cancelled 02/03 tour from Guns wasn't the best selling but they managed to sell out a few shows including Madison Square Garden. The 2006/2007 CD tour shows were pretty good selling shows I'd say the 2011 tour was one of the least selling tours. It doesn't matter nowadays though they could do a couple of U.S legs of a tour and it pretty much would sell out although personally I'm not sure just rocking up to play the greatest hits & a few CD songs can cut it anymore though needs new music like a least a few songs of a new album or its just a straight cash grab type tour but some people will say fair fucks if they can get the fans in plus the casuals.  

I had friends that went to the MSG show and regretted it. They are casual GNR fans. They didn't like that Slash wasn't there. They also complained that Axl was late and didn't sound like vintage Axl anymore. 

I had tickets to go to one of those shows at MSG. We had a really bad snowstorm on that day and I couldn't make it into NYC for the show. 

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On 5/16/2019 at 11:40 AM, Tom2112 said:

That's an interesting retelling of history. 

They played bowling alleys because they wanted to play a bunch of intimate shows, they weren't forced into it because of poor ticket sales. And I know the arenas in America weren't full but we're still talking mostly 3/4 full arenas, with the occasional sell out or less than 3/4 sold. 

Gnr were still playing double nights in London, and selling out throughout Europe, selling thousands of tickets in SA, and doing great in the Asian territories, they were no way near stadiums but they were still a huge band, doing good, but not spectacular business.

Finally, I never suggested Slash wasn't a huge fan favourite and that he brings a lot of fans back! I just meant that there are a lot of great players out there, and there are not that many great frontmen! So while I love Slash he is far more replaceable... Had gnr replaced Axl they'd be where Skid row are today. Axl could still go out with another version of GNR and do well, the rest of the guys could not do that, even if they were allowed the use of the gnr name.

I don't think they were playing bowling alleys, wedding, and a Las Vegas residency because they wanted to. It seemed more like forced at the time. I said this once and I'll say it again. In 2011, GNR had a show at the Izod Center in the Meadowlands. It was the only show in the NJ/NYC area. The arena was less than half filled. I saw it with my own eyes. It really said something to me seeing this since I know that the NJ/NYC area LOVES Guns N' Roses. It really seemed like that was going to be the end. 

Compare that night to two nights  on July 23rd and 24th 2016. It was Guns N' Roses back in this  area with Slash and Duff.  It was their two biggest nights on the tour with over 100,000 people attending. It was a surreal movement when I heard everyone in the crowd sing Sweet Child on July 23rd. 

Both Axl and Slash are not replaceable, especially to the general public. 

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11 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I still don't agree with that last point. I get Izzy's importance but I just don't think the gereral public does. 

 

I tend to agree. That's always been my POV in the past. And I still feel that way on the whole.

BUT, the reason I made that last point is there has been so much media attention and focus on IZZY not being part of the reunion -- including fans and fellow musicians being upset about it -- that I feel news of IZZY's sudden involvement would spark a lot of intrigue and interest that was lost or never there in the first place. Hell, there are a lot of fans on this site that have said they won't see them again unless there's new music and/or a heavily revised set list. However, if IZZY returns, a good deal of those fans would go see them again regardless of either.

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Posted (edited)

You people keep confusing potential attendance at shows/sales with potential BETTERMENT of musical production, with regards to Izzy/Steven's addition to the roster. 

Majority of my job is to assess odds of scenarios happening in the present and future from past instances, recent and remote, and get paid for it (or pay out of my pocket when being wrong). Analyzing the history of the band, it's extremely clear to me  adding Izzy and/or Steven to the band, instantly increases the odds of getting better new music BY THE TENFOLDs. Sure, you can cite the small size of the samples, but hey, you gotta take what you have at hand.

If you measure the greatness of a band and its music by the number of people at concerts or how successful it is as a BUSINESS, and rationalize the choices the band has to make in accordance with, then well... fuck you. GNR didn't start that way, pretty much the opposite. Why the fuck are you even listening to this band? That's basically all they stood for, when it came to music. At least until 1990...

Edited by AncientEvil80

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On 17/05/2019 at 7:55 AM, Sydney Fan said:

From an interview with slash in 2000

Is it really Guns N’Roses without him in the band?

He thinks for a moment.

« I can’t answer that. I just wish the fucker would get the fuckin’ record out so I could see why he took something so cool and systematically, destroyed it. I want to hear where he was headed, and what he was trying to communicate that none of us in the band could relate to. »

He still sounds quite bitter here, which is understandable. When CD was released he said in an interview that he enjoyed it and was interesting to see what Axl was trying to do, and more recently on Chris Jericho's podcast he said that the album was "really cool" and would have been a GN'R record with or without him playing on it.

In the same inteview he also said that he felt really comfortable playing with Fortus and Frank because how long they had been in the band by that point.

It's funny reading people here who say that he feels otherwise, because they're clearly trying to project their own opinions onto him to validate them, which is just lame.

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“AFD”,”Lies”= Erin= qute girl, wild life, love&hate, emotions thru the roof=5 original members

”UYI”=Stef= look I have model for girlfriend, outside is all perfect but inside...=3.5 original members

”CD”= Beta= my housekeeper/life coach is stronger than yourse. = 1 original member

”new album”= I hope it will be like hooking back with Erin but now much older and mature but it will end up like some blonde plastic chick twenthy years younger who is in it only for the money. 😁=3/5 original members

 

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17 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

He still sounds quite bitter here, which is understandable. When CD was released he said in an interview that he enjoyed it and was interesting to see what Axl was trying to do, and more recently on Chris Jericho's podcast he said that the album was "really cool" and would have been a GN'R record with or without him playing on it.

In the same inteview he also said that he felt really comfortable playing with Fortus and Frank because how long they had been in the band by that point.

It's funny reading people here who say that he feels otherwise, because they're clearly trying to project their own opinions onto him to validate them, which is just lame.

That's a time honored tradition around here. For whatever reason, people just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that Slash actually likes CD.

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I think we must accept that this band isn't like ZZ Top-who haven't changed in 50 years, it isn't like the Beatles or Beach Boys (where huge production comes from the finalized lineup). As much as I think this band could have been as critically acclaimed as Pink Floyd, where you have 4 complete albums that will stand the test of time, it seems like Appetite is going to be it. I hope, with this lineup, the band can be something like ACDC, where different lineups produce great music. 

I think anyone who is the kind of person who doesn't even acknowledge CD as a GN'R album, or even UYI for that matter, is confusing their preference to reality. I wish we had Appetite, Lies, UYI, and 3 or 4 more albums with the original 5, and maybe including Dizzy, but sadly that's not how the cards fell. It sucks, especially because this band could have been bigger than The Rolling Stones I think. 

I just want good music. I wonder what people, who only qualify CD as an Axl Rose solo album, would have said if the album was (to most people) better than Appetite? It's hard to imagine, but an interesting though experiment. What if this new album is better than Appetite or UYI? 

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9 hours ago, Popcorn crew said:

“AFD”,”Lies”= Erin= qute girl, wild life, love&hate, emotions thru the roof=5 original members

”UYI”=Stef= look I have model for girlfriend, outside is all perfect but inside...=3.5 original members

”CD”= Beta= my housekeeper/life coach is stronger than yourse. = 1 original member

”new album”= I hope it will be like hooking back with Erin but now much older and mature but it will end up like some blonde plastic chick twenthy years younger who is in it only for the money. 😁=3/5 original members

 

Sasha?.🤔

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8 hours ago, RussTCB said:

That's a time honored tradition around here. For whatever reason, people just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that Slash actually likes CD.

Well would he be honest and say "all things considered it was a very musical album but its not my cup of tea".

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