Duff McKagan defends misunderstood '80s lyrics

[lame ass security]

13 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Generally speaking, Americans seem to possess a unique cheerful confidence which can be superficial at times but it's also a genuine quality that shouldn't be dismissed or overlooked. The women are very feminine too, which is a sweet good thing of course. That's my feeling towards Americans. It would be almost like a brattiness lol which I find kind of endearing so I'd be more forgiving.

Now you've stepped in it, I am not a friggin brat.  I'm going to tell on you.😄

[Blackstar]

10 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Nah Duff has being saying that for years but that doesn't make him any less full of shit.

There is a section on the Lies cover that summarizes incidents that lead to the song. Axl has also spoke during concerts about some of the incidents, and its even depicted in the WTTJ video - when Axl gets off the bus, Izzy comes up trying to sell him something ("Don't need to buy none of your gold chains today"). When he was defending the song he never mentioned anything about it being 3rd person. Plus we all know Axl had problems with the Police, so that line makes sense from his perspective.

I don't think Axl is racist/homophobic but he suffered some bad culture shock arriving in LA. That song was him lashing out. 

Billy Joel said in 1989 that he had discussed OIAM with Axl and Axl had told him more or less that it was from a third party perspective and it wasn't necessarily him who "spoke" in the song. And in one of the interviews Axl said that it was based on him and things he saw, but it was also generalised as the point of view of someone with his background and experiences.

Regardless of this song and what Axl meant, it's possible to write something about oneself as a character, i.e. that is autobiographical and from a third party perspective at the same time.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Blackstar

[Azifwekare]

4 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Americans are weird about the word 'cunt'. It's a fine word and there's nothing sexist about it and it's not like you think 'dick' is sexist. 

Yep, 'cunt' seems to have a very different meaning in America than it does elsewhere. Bloody Americans and their limp-wristed grip on the English language *shakes fist at clouds*.

Up in Scotland we even use it as a term of endearment... "aye, ya wee little cunt".

[DTJ80]

15 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

Yep, 'cunt' seems to have a very different meaning in America than it does elsewhere. Bloody Americans and their limp-wristed grip on the English language *shakes fist at clouds*.

Up in Scotland we even use it as a term of endearment... "aye, ya wee little cunt".

Ha ha. Yup - In parts of Scotland there are folk who literally end every sentence ‘ya c&£t’.......although it still gets a reaction when certain people here it!

[Len Cnut]

Cunt has precisely the same meaning everywhere, its not that it is less offensive in Scotland and England, its just we've abused it more and a consequence of that is that its taken on a number of contexts, still means what it means though and its far from inoffensive.  Remember, England have been using the English language a lot longer so certain words have had a lot of time bedding in, its pretty much a working class thing, the over-use of the word cunt and England sort of canonize their working class hence you hear more of them (and by association it) as a consequence. 

I remember calling my mate a fat cunt in school once in earshot of a teacher, she went ballistic.  It was during class, all I said was 'oh piss off you fat cunt', her face turned the colour of a beetroot...she went all quiet and I went 'sorry miss!' and she screamed 'JUST GET OUT!'.  Fair dues, I knew it was a naughty word and all that but I didn't think it'd get quite that reaction.  She gave me a detention and a long lecture on how offensive that word was and 'would you use that word in front of your mum and sister?'  I remember thinking at the time 'my mum don't speak English and I've used it in front of my sister a million times', thought better of telling her that though

[Azifwekare]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

She gave me a detention and a long lecture on how offensive that word was and 'would you use that word in front of your mum and sister?'

10 year old me: "Er, yeah, I learnt it from her, ya daft cunt!"

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

10 year old me: "Er, yeah, I learnt it from her, ya daft cunt!"

Funnily enough I think I learnt it from my Dad

[thunderram]

As far as any member of GN'R is concerned, I circle back to this quote from AXL many years ago: " If I change my opinion about something I said in a song, you know, as time goes by, that's okay because that song was a reflection of where I was then."

All DUFF had to do was paraphrase that. No need to make excuses or compare to his mindset today. We all evolve and change over time. Some more than others.

I think most can grasp the simple concept that what someone believed in during their their youth isn't necessarily what they believe in now.

I also disagree that DUFF could have written his current album/lyrics back in the 80's. No he couldn't have. He was in a different time and place and his ideals were vastly different than they are today. Otherwise, he would have written it 30 years ago. But he didn't.

Edited June 7, 2019 by thunderram

[Sydney Fan]

11 hours ago, RONIN said:

"Slash informed me that Duff was spineless" - Beta Lebeis ~2006

It seems like the former king of beers and Izzy are the two gunners most uncomfortable with the band's sleazy history. Even Slash appears more comfortable with GnR's sordid past in recent interviews than those two.

This doesn't bode well for any documentary or movie about these guys - McKagan, Izzy, and Axl would just airbrush the entire thing before it comes out. I think it's a near guarantee we will never see any footage or detailed account from the Hell House days or those infamous Illusion era parties Axl threw - atleast nothing that is officially sanctioned by the band. If Marc Canter gets back into the good graces of Axl and Sluff, I imagine his footage is getting tossed in some dark pit where Paul Tobias is hiding. They appear to have made a commercial choice to not court any controversy at this stage of their career. Ironically, the more they sanitize their brand, the less interesting they become for future generations.

At this point duff may as well make a twitter post and apologising to all rock fans on the content of the lyrics from the bands discography and we are sorry for the lyrics. People and attitudes change over time, considering how self destructive they were none of them probably thought they would live past 30 much less sitting talking about their past as 50 year olds. Hes a pussy, i think he needs to go back to being the king of beers again. Might be more punk that way.

[The Holographic Universe]

22 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Absolute bullshit!

Slash and Duff used to have blowjob games during the Illusion tour for crying out loud. They used to get the cameramen to focus on the attractive ladies and get them brought backstage to perform sex acts on them as some sort of competition. Something sordid happened when Rose and Slash were on the run from the police also in 1985, perhaps involving sex with inebriated minors - Geffen hushed it up with cash.

PS

And Rose raped Erin and Steph! Yip, ''good dudes'' indeed. 

Jeez dude. 40 years ago. 

[31illusions]

8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Billy Joel said in 1989 that he had discussed OIAM with Axl and Axl had told him more or less that it was from a third party perspective and it wasn't necessarily him who "spoke" in the song. And in one of the interviews Axl said that it was based on him and things he saw, but it was also generalised as the point of view of someone with his background and experiences.

Regardless of this song and what Axl meant, it's possible to write something about oneself as a character, i.e. that is autobiographical and from a third party perspective at the same time.

If anyone thinks Axl wrote OIAM as a third person, they clearly don't know GN'R. Here's a link and a Quote from Axl himself.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-99204/

Does it bother you that so many people think you’re misogynous, homophobic and racist?
It can bother me. But the racist thing is just bullshit. I used a word that was taboo. And I used that word because it was taboo. I was pissed off about some black people that were trying to rob me. I wanted to insult those particular black people. I didn’t want to support racism. When I used the word f@gg0t's, I wasn’t coming down on gays. I was coming down on an element of gays. I had just heard a story about a man who was released out of the L.A. county jail with AIDS and he was hooking. I’ve had my share of dealings with aggressive gays, and I was bothered by it. The. Bible says, “Thou shalt not judge,” and I guess I made a judgment call, and it was an insult. The racist thing, that’s just stupid. I can understand how people would think that, but that’s not how I meant it. I believe that there’s always gonna be some form of racism –– as much as we’d like there to be peace –– because people are different. Black culture is different. I work with a black man every day [Earl Gabbidon, Rose’s bodyguard], and he’s one of my best friends. There are things he’s into that are definitely a “black thing.” But I can like them. There are things that are that way. I think there always will be.

Edited May 30, 2019 by 31illusions

[DieselDaisy]

15 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Jeez dude. 40 years ago. 

Wasn't McKagan discussing them ''40 years ago'', or more specifically 34-26 years ago? The following is certainly in the past tense,

Quote

I'm sure stuff was going on, Harvey Weinstein stuff and all that, but we hated that! If we saw that stuff going on around us, we didn't allow it to happen around us. We were still good dudes,” he says. “None of our friends said, ‘Grab her by the p***y.’ You know what I mean? Who would say something like that? And I don't mean to be political against the dude who said that; it's just an idiotic, stupid thing to say, for any man. And that's the way I've always thought. So '80s, or now — I could've written ‘Last September’ in the '80s.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Blackstar]

36 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

If anyone thinks Axl wrote OIAM as a third person, they clearly don't know GN'R. Here's a link and a Quote from Axl himself.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-99204/

Yes, I know this quote. Like I said, it's possible to write about yourself AND as a third person.

[Tom-Ass]

Duff seems like a smart and cool dude.. Guns lyrics weren't misunderstood.. They always boasted how real their music was and how it was a reflection of their life and the times.. Just own up to it.. Times change, people change and evolve.. Just because you are a different person now doesn't mean you have to pretend you weren't what you were then.  So lame.... 

 

[alfierose]

If recent social media meltdowns have taught us anything it's that back peddling makes things 10 x worse. It's practically asking for tons of people to surface with endless stories disproving his embarrassing revisionism. The best thing to do is just admit it was what it was and own it (Slash) or say virtually nothing (Axl).

I get that Duff had an life epiphany post pancreas explosion but he really needs to understand he can't completely reinvent himself and become the saviour of all things good and moral. Certainly not whilst he continues to rake in big bucks being in Guns N' Roses. 

I get the impression he's someone who is evangelical about everything he's given up and left in the past. A version of uber ex-smoker syndrome. 

[Gnrcane]

19 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't have a problem with the lyrics either. I've never had, with the exception of OIAM - and even that I've kind of overcome now. Lyrics are an expression and can be written from one's perspective or someone else's; or they can be a description of what the narrator sees. So I don't really mind whatever interpretation Duff is trying to give to the lyrics.

I have a problem with the things these guys did though. They had behaved in a certain way in an environment that was very sexist, and it's idiotic to try to gloss it over or twist it now and almost say that they were feminists.

With respect to lyrics, it's kind of the same with OIAM and "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits.  Using a word from the perspective of the "protagonist" in the song does not mean the song writer or band is racist/homophobic whatever.  If you were a "small town white boy" in the rural Midwest, growing up in the  1970's, there's a pretty good chance you never even saw a black person or an openly gay person.  Then you get off a bus in LA and it's going to be complete culture shock.  I'm sure that's exactly what was going through Axl's mind.  It doesn't mean that after a few weeks or months in LA that he didn't realize that black people are fine people.  As for the homophobic part, if the attempted rape story is true, I can cut Axl some slack.  There's probably a lot of women who were raped that develop some level of hatred for men.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

theres nothing more in life that i hate more than hypocrites 

look no further to the its so easy video they re mastered re-edited and released recently to get the true gist of the song 

duff is full of shit 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[lame ass security]

56 minutes ago, Gnrcane said:

With respect to lyrics, it's kind of the same with OIAM and "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits.  Using a word from the perspective of the "protagonist" in the song does not mean the song writer or band is racist/homophobic whatever.  If you were a "small town white boy" in the rural Midwest, growing up in the  1970's, there's a pretty good chance you never even saw a black person or an openly gay person.  Then you get off a bus in LA and it's going to be complete culture shock.  I'm sure that's exactly what was going through Axl's mind.  It doesn't mean that after a few weeks or months in LA that he didn't realize that black people are fine people.  As for the homophobic part, if the attempted rape story is true, I can cut Axl some slack.  There's probably a lot of women who were raped that develop some level of hatred for men.

I had totally forgotten about Money For Nothing, did Mark Knopfler catch any heat for that line?

[31illusions]

34 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

theres nothing more in life that i hate more than hypocrites 

look no further to the its so easy video they re mastered re-edited and released recently to get the true gist of the song 

duff is full of shit

Ahh I see what you're saying. You're saying Duff is a double talkin jive mfkr!

[gnfnrs1972]

#metoo as fuck!

[Drexl]

13 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Billy Joel said in 1989 that he had discussed OIAM with Axl and Axl had told him more or less that it was from a third party perspective and it wasn't necessarily him who "spoke" in the song. And in one of the interviews Axl said that it was based on him and things he saw, but it was also generalised as the point of view of someone with his background and experiences.

Regardless of this song and what Axl meant, it's possible to write something about oneself as a character, i.e. that is autobiographical and from a third party perspective at the same time.

It's so fucking obvious, but tools are always too literal.

By the way, Duff's next book should be titled "From Cornshucker to Tenderness (How I've Become a Big Fat Pussy)".

[lame ass security]

1 hour ago, alfierose said:

If recent social media meltdowns have taught us anything it's that back peddling makes things 10 x worse. It's practically asking for tons of people to surface with endless stories disproving his embarrassing revisionism. The best thing to do is just admit it was what it was and own it (Slash) or say virtually nothing (Axl).

I get that Duff had an life epiphany post pancreas explosion but he really needs to understand he can't completely reinvent himself and become the saviour of all things good and moral. Certainly not whilst he continues to rake in big bucks being in Guns N' Roses. 

I get the impression he's someone who is evangelical about everything he's given up and left in the past. A version of uber ex-smoker syndrome. 

"Post Pancreas Explosion Syndrome", or PPES, is a relatively unknown malady.   The cause is self explanatory and symptoms include, but are not limited to:  selective memory, reading obscure books, remorse for activities that no one really cares about anymore, backtracking, and claims of being punk as fuck.  Unfortunately, there is no known cure but there are treatment options, the most successful being daily applications of a topical cream.

[Tucknroll]

9 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Funnily enough I think I learnt it from my Dad

Me too lol. All my life if something needed moved slightly it was move it just a cunt hair

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Gnrcane said:

If you were a "small town white boy" in the rural Midwest, growing up in the  1970's, there's a pretty good chance you never even saw a black person or an openly gay person.  Then you get off a bus in LA and it's going to be complete culture shock.  I'm sure that's exactly what was going through Axl's mind.  It doesn't mean that after a few weeks or months in LA that he didn't realize that black people are fine people. 

Not having ever seen a black person in your life also gives you the right to call them the N word and humilliate them in a song?
A song released many years after the small town white boy settled in the big city?

Sure

Quote

As for the homophobic part, if the attempted rape story is true, I can cut Axl some slack.  There's probably a lot of women who were raped that develop some level of hatred for men.

While it could be logical that raped women might develope some level of hatred or fear of men, this is mostly a personal trauma that needs to be treated with proper therapy.

It wouldn't be fair that a raped woman, as bad that the crime is, would go around hating on every man that crosses her path or writting lyrics about how ALL MEN are rapists.

[GnR Chris]

19 hours ago, Towlie said:

This is what I loved about Motley Crue's 'The Dirt'. They embraced it. Not because they behave that way now, but because that was them. The owned it for all of its highs and lows.

LOL, no they didn't. They are denying stories from the book and saying they embellished.