Drexl Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, killuridols said: How can you not see anything political in 'Civil War'? It is heavily politically charged with the mention of Kennedy's assassination, Vietnam War, "your power hungry selling soldiers...", "carry the cross of homicide".... But just like with other songs, the band oftenly backpedal on the motivation of their lyrics.... Not sure why this happens though. Axl: "We dedicate that to all the military people that are here tonight. I think anybody in their right mind, anybody that has a brain at all, wasn't too excited with the concept of going to war but once we are in it, I think you're a fucking asshole not to fucking root for our side!".... "I mean I met all this people 'we shouldn't be having a fucking war'.... well, it's too late asshole!" By 1991, there was the Gulf War going on, led by the USA with a coalition of nations against Irak. Johnson killed Kennedy, Nixon ended the Vietnam war... It's really pro-Republican. But seriously, by political I mean when you take one side. 'Civil War' is above all that bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RussTCB Posted June 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, TupacShakur said: i support Duff McKagan we live in a new era now where woman deserve to be treated equal to men but I hope this means they drop the song attitude from the set it has a lyric "Inside your feeble brain there's probably a whoreIf you don't shut your mouth you're gonna feel the floor" as a woman in the year 2019 it offends me but I understand if they want to keep it because it a classic song. Wait.........No one is saying that women shouldn't be equal with men and calling what Duff is saying bullshit does not mean someone thinks women are less than men. Duff is NOT saying "women should be equal to men", Duff is saying a amazingly sexest line from ISE was meant in a joking manner, which is absolutely not true. He's not supporting women by making that claim, he's actually insulting women's intelligence by trying to pass that BS off as fact if you ask me. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Drexl said: Johnson killed Kennedy, Nixon ended the Vietnam war... It's really pro-Republican. But seriously, by political I mean when you take one side. 'Civil War' is above all that bullshit. It's still political because some verses take the side of all humans involved in a war, especially those who are damaged by it. That's a political stance, even if during that Indiana show, Axl backpedals on the lyrics to support the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexl Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, killuridols said: It's still political because some verses take the side of all humans involved in a war, especially those who are damaged by it. That's a political stance, even if during that Indiana show, Axl backpedals on the lyrics to support the government Taking the side of victims is empathic, not political. At least for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Drexl said: Taking the side of victims is empathic, not political. At least for me. I don't agree but... whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acor Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) On 9.06.2019 at 2:31 AM, Nice Boy said: It's pretty bizarre that so many fans have obviously stuck by the band despite the One In A Millon lyrics and the rest, but then get all enraged now that Axl and Duff have matured and are expressing healthier outlooks on life and the world. If Trump means that much to you then get another band, because face it they don't like him at all and at least have the honesty to say so, unlike some other artists who would keep their mouths shut in case they lost fans over their political views. What's "Trumpish" in old GnR lyrics??? I thought, if anyone, its conservatives who should be outraged by GnR (except OIAM, I totally get why this track is offensive)... Aren't conservatives the religious, family oriented ones, who would considered band openly singing about drinking and and drug addiction as bunch of degenerates who are threat to public morality, and bad influence on youth??? At least in my country it goes that way... Edited June 10, 2019 by acor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexl Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, acor said: What's "Trumpish" in old GnR lyrics??? I thought, if anyone, its conservatives who should be outraged by GnR (except OIAM, I totally get why this track is offensive)... Aren't conservatives the religious, family oriented ones, who would considered band openly singing about drinking and and drug addiction as bunch of degenerates who are threat to public morality, and bad influence on youth??? At least in my country it goes that way... Conservatives say one thing and do another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TupacShakur Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, RussTCB said: Wait.........No one is saying that women shouldn't be equal with men and calling what Duff is saying bullshit does not mean someone thinks women are less than men. Duff is NOT saying "women should be equal to men", Duff is saying a amazingly sexest line from ISE was meant in a joking manner, which is absolutely not true. He's not supporting women by making that claim, he's actually insulting women's intelligence by trying to pass that BS off as fact if you ask me. ya I guess if they didn't come out and say it was a joke in the 80's it can't be a joke now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I'd just like to point out that we're comparing sexist, misogynistic lyrics written by hard parting kids living in a storage unit nearly 35 years ago to the current President's behavior. I mean, at the very least, shouldn't the President of the United States be held to a higher standard than Appetite For Destruction? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayno Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, TupacShakur said: i support Duff McKagan we live in a new era now where woman deserve to be treated equal to men but I hope this means they drop the song attitude from the set it has a lyric "Inside your feeble brain there's probably a whoreIf you don't shut your mouth you're gonna feel the floor" as a woman in the year 2019 it offends me but I understand if they want to keep it because it a classic song. I hope your "livin' in new era" doesn't mean artists and their work will be judged by political needs/preconceptions/ideology of the particular "era" and will be urged to drop anything from the set. Because to be honest we people of Eastern Europe lived under such circumstances for 40 years and it wasn't much fun. In fact it sucked massive cock. By the way - being offensive and not givin' a fuck is and always was the foundation of punk rock. Edited June 10, 2019 by Rayno 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame ass security Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, acor said: What's "Trumpish" in old GnR lyrics??? I thought, if anyone, its conservatives who should be outraged by GnR (except OIAM, I totally get why this track is offensive)... Aren't conservatives the religious, family oriented ones, who would considered band openly singing about drinking and and drug addiction as bunch of degenerates who are threat to public morality, and bad influence on youth??? At least in my country it goes that way... Well, let's be honest, during the Appetite days they were a "a bunch of degenerates who were a threat to public morality, and a bad influence on youth." That was one of the reasons many people gravitated to the band, including myself. It's been like that since rock n roll started with Rock Around The Clock by Bill Haley. Many people thought that Evis was the antichrist. Rock n roll, if it's any good, is inherently rebellious and controversial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayno Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 On 9. 6. 2019 at 2:21 AM, Nice Boy said: What? We're not debating whether that lyric is related to sex. I am drawing a distinction between it and Trump boasting of outright sexual assault. The 'turn around bitch' lyric is far from being politically correct, but I always understood it as about someone in a fiery pissed off mood wanting (consensual) sex with their girlfriend, not about raping her. It's not by far the worst lyric Duff has sung anyway. The worst must be the line in Attitude 'if you don't shut your mouth you're gonna feel the floor, bitch' - now that IS about assault, and I don't see how he could defend it, or why he still sings it. Because it's piece of art, that's why. It doesn't necessarily means he shares this view, the same way a character in a novel doesn't necessarily represents views of its author. The fact some lyric is far from being PC is a good thing. R'n'R wouldn't exist if it would respected political correctness of ANY era. Artistic freedom is a waaaay bigger value than anyone's hurt feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, Modano09 said: I'd just like to point out that we're comparing sexist, misogynistic lyrics written by hard parting kids living in a storage unit nearly 35 years ago to the current President's behavior. I mean, at the very least, shouldn't the President of the United States be held to a higher standard than Appetite For Destruction? But those kids have grown up into grandpas now, they are kind of same age as Trump now and they are still singing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" in the 21st century, so what's the difference? Obviously, Trump (and any other president) should be held to higher standards but that doesn't give a free way for the rest of people to be sexist, mysoginist and patriarchal just because they do not hold such a huge power position. 24 minutes ago, Rayno said: Because it's piece of art, that's why. It doesn't necessarily means he shares this view, the same way a character in a novel doesn't necessarily represents views of its author. The fact some lyric is far from being PC is a good thing. R'n'R wouldn't exist if it would respected political correctness of ANY era. Artistic freedom is a waaaay bigger value than anyone's hurt feelings. Total bollocks. Guns N' Roses lyrics came mostly from their real life experiences, not from some fictional character they created as if they were Hemingway. That is the kind of excuse they use to justify the sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... as it is shown from their behavior, they seem to have problems owning their shit, admitting to their past.... Artistic freedom is bullshit if your art spreads hatred towards innocent people. Rock n' roll isn't a sacred cow anymore and actually, rock n' roll was a means to rebel against the system, against the establishment, not to OPPRESS minorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post todreamofwolves Posted June 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 hours ago, TupacShakur said: i support Duff McKagan we live in a new era now where woman deserve to be treated equal to men but I hope this means they drop the song attitude from the set it has a lyric "Inside your feeble brain there's probably a whoreIf you don't shut your mouth you're gonna feel the floor" as a woman in the year 2019 it offends me but I understand if they want to keep it because it a classic song. If you're so offended, maybe find a new band to follow. And btw, I say this as a woman. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayno Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, killuridols said: Artistic freedom is bullshit if your art spreads hatred towards innocent people. Rock n' roll isn't a sacred cow anymore and actually, rock n' roll was a means to rebel against the system, against the establishment, not to OPPRESS minorities. Well, if that's your attitude, I guess you can "F?!* off and buy something from the New Age section". Seriously, I love the way how you PC people exaggerate by using words like "oppress minorities". By the wy rock'n'roll was NEVER a sacred cow, it was always supposed to be an outlaw thing. And speaking about "the system" and "the establishment" - I am pretty sure right now your opinions represent these two buddies a way more than mine. Edited June 10, 2019 by Rayno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TupacShakur Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just now, todreamofwolves said: If you're so offended, maybe find a new band to follow. And btw, I say this as a woman. im not offended by the band or what they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayno said: Well, if that's your attitude, I guess you can "can F?!* off and buy something from the New Age section". Don't worry, I own thousands of songs, not necessarily from the New Age section (jeez, what a dinosaur suggestion! ) Fortunately, I have a wider musical taste than just Guns N' Roses 4 minutes ago, Rayno said: Seriously, I love the way how you PC people exaggerate by using words like "oppress minorities". What you mean by "you PC people"? You're not posting from a PERSONAL COMPUTER? 5 minutes ago, Rayno said: By the wy rock'n'roll was NEVER a sacred cow, it was always supposed to be an outlaw thing. And speaking about "the system" and "the establishment" - I am pretty sure right now your opinions represent these two buddies a way more than mine. At some point rock n' roll became mainstream and it was the music that abounded radio & television programs aproximately since the 60's til the late 90's, more or less. Nowadays it is a different story. My opinions do not represent any "system" or any "establishment". Religious, racial and sexual minorities are still there, intact, unfortunately. The system and the establishment have always been the same throughout the centuries, with some slight differences, depending on the era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayno Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, killuridols said: The system and the establishment have always been the same throughout the centuries, with some slight differences, depending on the era. As someone with degree in history I must disagree. That's nonsense. The rest of your post proves that at least you have a sense of humour which is cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteron Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Values and people evolve over time. I agree with all things being equal, but having a new generation of people being judge and jury over a band or a music scene that was 25 years ago is ridiculous. The whole point of life is to learn from things that have happened in the past and focus on the now and next. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame ass security Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 10 hours ago, allwaystired said: Not really! He's comparing Iron Maiden to a political organisation in terms of how they operate, not saying he doesn't like politics in music. They wrote Civil War not long after this, so have always been somewhat political. More so now of course, but these are fucked up times, so it would be surprising if they weren't. Iron Maiden, I suspect Bruce Dickinson specifically, really did something to piss Axl off during their tour together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 44 minutes ago, killuridols said: But those kids have grown up into grandpas now, they are kind of same age as Trump now and they are still singing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" in the 21st century, so what's the difference? Well GNR are signing song lyrics the way they were written 35 years ago while not condoning the message they send if asked about them off stage. Trump's talking about grabbing women by the pussy because he's a star, and he can, and takes the whole thing so seriously he alternates between defended it and pretending it wasn't him that said it. He makes fun of women's appearance. He makes fun of their intelligence. He defended himself against sexual harassment allegations by saying the victim wasn't attractive enough to sexually harass. There's no shortage of ways Trump has proven himself to be a vile piece of shit and you just have to accept that some people - even your favorite band - don't support it and are allowed to voice their opinions without you trying to invalidate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame ass security Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, killuridols said: But those kids have grown up into grandpas now, they are kind of same age as Trump now and they are still singing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" in the 21st century, so what's the difference? Obviously, Trump (and any other president) should be held to higher standards but that doesn't give a free way for the rest of people to be sexist, mysoginist and patriarchal just because they do not hold such a huge power position. Total bollocks. Guns N' Roses lyrics came mostly from their real life experiences, not from some fictional character they created as if they were Hemingway. That is the kind of excuse they use to justify the sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... as it is shown from their behavior, they seem to have problems owning their shit, admitting to their past.... Artistic freedom is bullshit if your art spreads hatred towards innocent people. Rock n' roll isn't a sacred cow anymore and actually, rock n' roll was a means to rebel against the system, against the establishment, not to OPPRESS minorities. They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it. By your logic Axl should change the line in Estranged to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". Edited June 10, 2019 by lame ass security 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskingApathy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, lame ass security said: They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it. By your logic Axl should change the line in Don't Cry to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". That's Estranged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Trump's talking about grabbing women by the pussy because he's a star, and he can, and takes the whole thing so seriously he alternates between defended it and pretending it wasn't him that said it. The bolded: Isn't that what Duff was doing in this interview? 18 minutes ago, Modano09 said: There's no shortage of ways Trump has proven himself to be a vile piece of shit and you just have to accept that some people - even your favorite band - don't support it and are allowed to voice their opinions without you trying to invalidate it. Well, I don't need the 'woke' dinosaurs from GN'R to illuminate me on who Trump is..... unless you're a blinded follower of authoritarian people like him, it is not really hard to realize about it. Not sure how I was trying to invalidate their opinion, though....... All I said (or attempted to say) is that, IN MY OPINION, Duff and GN'R do not fall that far from Trump regarding misoginy, even if this is presumably, some type of behavior from their past. Duff was all about denying the meaning of the lyrics and that's what's dishonest about him. 5 minutes ago, lame ass security said: They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it. By your logic Axl should change the line in Don't Cry to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". well, he should!! Anyway, I never said they should change the lyrics. I was just merely describing what they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame ass security Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said: That's Estranged Yes it is, my mistake. Early senility.😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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