Jump to content
Original

Duff McKagan defends misunderstood '80s lyrics

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Artistic freedom is bullshit if your art spreads hatred towards innocent people. Rock n' roll isn't a sacred cow anymore and actually, rock n' roll was a means to rebel against the system, against the establishment, not to OPPRESS minorities.

Well, if that's your attitude, I guess you can "F?!* off and buy something from the New Age section".

Seriously, I love the way how you PC people exaggerate by using words like "oppress minorities".  

By the wy rock'n'roll was NEVER a sacred cow, it was always supposed to be an outlaw thing. And speaking about "the system" and "the establishment" - I am pretty sure right now your opinions represent these two buddies a way more than mine.

Edited by Rayno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, todreamofwolves said:

If you're so offended, maybe find a new band to follow. And btw, I say this as a woman.

im not offended by the band or what they say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rayno said:

Well, if that's your attitude, I guess you can "can F?!* off and buy something from the New Age section".

Don't worry, I own thousands of songs, not necessarily from the New Age section (jeez, what a dinosaur suggestion! :lol:)
Fortunately, I have a wider musical taste than just Guns N' Roses ;)

4 minutes ago, Rayno said:

Seriously, I love the way how you PC people exaggerate by using words like "oppress minorities".  

What you mean by "you PC people"? You're not posting from a PERSONAL COMPUTER? :wow:

5 minutes ago, Rayno said:

By the wy rock'n'roll was NEVER a sacred cow, it was always supposed to be an outlaw thing. And speaking about "the system" and "the establishment" - I am pretty sure right now your opinions represent these two buddies a way more than mine.

At some point rock n' roll became mainstream and it was the music that abounded radio & television programs aproximately since the 60's til the late 90's, more or less.
Nowadays it is a different story.

My opinions do not represent any "system" or any "establishment". Religious, racial and sexual minorities are still there, intact, unfortunately.

The system and the establishment have always been the same throughout the centuries, with some slight differences, depending on the era.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

The system and the establishment have always been the same throughout the centuries, with some slight differences, depending on the era.

 

As someone with degree in history I must disagree. That's nonsense.

The rest of your post proves that at least you have a sense of humour which is cool.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Values and people evolve over time.

I agree with all things being equal, but having a new generation of people being judge and jury over a band or a music scene that was 25 years ago is ridiculous. The whole point of life is to learn from things that have happened in the past and focus on the now and next. 

  • Like 2
  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, allwaystired said:

Not really! He's comparing Iron Maiden to a political organisation in terms of how they operate, not saying he doesn't like politics in music. They wrote Civil War not long after this, so have always been somewhat political. More so now of course, but these are fucked up times, so it would be surprising if they weren't. 

Iron Maiden, I suspect Bruce Dickinson specifically, really did something to piss Axl off during their tour together. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, killuridols said:

But those kids have grown up into grandpas now, they are kind of same age as Trump now and they are still singing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" in the 21st century, so what's the difference? :shrugs:

 

Well GNR are signing song lyrics the way they were written 35 years ago while not condoning the message they send if asked about them off stage.

Trump's talking about grabbing women by the pussy because he's a star, and he can, and takes the whole thing so seriously he alternates between defended it and pretending it wasn't him that said it. He makes fun of women's appearance. He makes fun of their intelligence. He defended himself against sexual harassment allegations by saying the victim wasn't attractive enough to sexually harass. 

There's no shortage of ways Trump has proven himself to be a vile piece of shit and you just have to accept that some people - even your favorite band - don't support it and are allowed to voice their opinions without you trying to invalidate it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, killuridols said:

But those kids have grown up into grandpas now, they are kind of same age as Trump now and they are still singing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" in the 21st century, so what's the difference? :shrugs:

Obviously, Trump (and any other president) should be held to higher standards but that doesn't give a free way for the rest of people to be sexist, mysoginist and patriarchal just because they do not hold such a huge power position.

Total bollocks.

Guns N' Roses lyrics came mostly from their real life experiences, not from some fictional character they created as if they were Hemingway. That is the kind of excuse they use to justify the sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... as it is shown from their behavior, they seem to have problems owning their shit, admitting to their past....

Artistic freedom is bullshit if your art spreads hatred towards innocent people. Rock n' roll isn't a sacred cow anymore and actually, rock n' roll was a means to rebel against the system, against the establishment, not to OPPRESS minorities.

They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it.  By your logic Axl should change the line in Estranged to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". 

Edited by lame ass security
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it.  By your logic Axl should change the line in Don't Cry to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". 

That's Estranged

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Trump's talking about grabbing women by the pussy because he's a star, and he can, and takes the whole thing so seriously he alternates between defended it and pretending it wasn't him that said it.

The bolded: Isn't that what Duff was doing in this interview? :shrugs:

18 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

There's no shortage of ways Trump has proven himself to be a vile piece of shit and you just have to accept that some people - even your favorite band - don't support it and are allowed to voice their opinions without you trying to invalidate it. 

Well, I don't need the 'woke' dinosaurs from GN'R to illuminate me on who Trump is..... unless you're a blinded follower of authoritarian people like him, it is not really hard to realize about it.

Not sure how I was trying to invalidate their opinion, though....... All I said (or attempted to say) is that, IN MY OPINION, Duff and GN'R do not fall that far from Trump regarding misoginy, even if this is presumably, some type of behavior from their past. Duff was all about denying the meaning of the lyrics and that's what's dishonest about him.

 

5 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

They sing "turn around bitch I've got a use for you" because that's the way they wrote it.  By your logic Axl should change the line in Don't Cry to "old at heart but I'm almost 58". 

:lol: well, he should!!

Anyway, I never said they should change the lyrics. I was just merely describing what they do.

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Like I've said before, I generally don't have a problem with the lyrics, but with the actions. Actions aren't open to interpretation, they're only open to explanation, e.g. by providing the context - and there is a context in which these guys behaved and acted in a certain way in the 80s (and which Duff is clearly trying to sugarcoat).

As far as lyrics go, even the simplest and the most straightforward ones are open to interpretation - especially when someone doesn't know much about the artist/band or what they said in interviews over the years etc, and just happens to hear a song - because there are different perspectives from which something can be written. And sometimes the simplest lyrics are the easiest to be misinterpreted, because people don't put any thought into them.

Duff's current defense of It's So Easy is weak (although the chorus "It's so easy/but nothing seems to please me" states that the narrator doesn't get satisfaction from the situations he describes in the verses, including "Turn around bitch..."  so it might be interpreted as indicating that he doesn't approve them -  but this isn't what Duff is saying). He had done better in that 2010 BBC interview he mentions in this article.

On the other hand, what he says about some of the other songs, like Welcome to the Jungle and Paradise City, is the way I've always interpreted them too. I never took them as just party songs about drugs and sex. WTTJ, for example, is a really simple song, but I guess that many people have taken "we've got fun and games"  etc. just as "Guns N' Roses invites us to party together in the 'jungle'", although to me it's obvious that "we" is not the band/Axl and everything else in the song that's in first person (singular or plural) is said from another perspective.

 

Edited by Blackstar
  • Like 2
  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rayno said:

Funny how some posts ago you were calling me a "PC person", now it seems you are using a "PC" :lol: to make a point about bollocks, lololololol

BTW....

'know what the f---- I'm saying? old ffffff---!!!":rofl-lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, janrichmond said:

It's homefuck

Might be my favourite Axl word :wub:

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, killuridols said:

Funny how some posts ago you were calling me a "PC person", now it seems you are using a "PC" :lol:

Yes, it's called irony, my young friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Edited by action
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, would don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

What are we saying guns is likely to get sued by some fan because they are offended by some bands lyrics?. You may as well lineup every 80s glam bands, and as far as im concerned until such fan wants to sue ted nugent over poor lyrics gnr have nothing to worry about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really ain't easy for GNR now. Are they trying to do a "dangerous" album next? Something with sleazy/ offensive lyrics to keep the "fuck you" attitude alive somehow?
Or are we getting songs about saving elephants and being nice to everyone?

In a way, they're fucked - what do they have to say? Must be hard for Axl to give it a direction at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

I despise political correctness/what feminism has devolved into/SJW's, all of this worthless rubbish so very much. It's not just irritating it's mindless and damaging to culture and society. One of the ironies is these unthinking buffoons help cause things like Trump, for example, to happen. 

This situation of retards on the supposedly progressive left side and retards who support Trump; It's a tragic ouroboros of extremes, of people who don't care about wisdom, justice and being right but instead simply want their side to 'win' in a pathetically lazy and misguided attempt to nurture their frail, tattered, confused, mortal existence.

My advice to people is argue and denounce and ridicule the morons(whichever side they're on) now and then when necessary but beyond that just disengage and give up. Most people on the forum are good people there's only a few pieces of shit on here who I'm aware of. Most people, not just the ones I meet in life, most people in the entire world are at least somewhat decent folks - so we should try to focus on that and appreciate and cherish all those fellow human beings while the world burns inevitably. In summary, yep, we're fucked.

Edited by Oldest Goat
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Possibly.

Or maybe Duff has just turned into a giant pussy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It really ain't easy for GNR now. Are they trying to do a "dangerous" album next? Something with sleazy/ offensive lyrics to keep the "fuck you" attitude alive somehow?
Or are we getting songs about saving elephants and being nice to everyone?

In a way, they're fucked - what do they have to say? Must be hard for Axl to give it a direction at this point.

I think it'll deal with politics in some way. It seems to be the direction they're going in on a personal level, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't feature in some way. 

 

12 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I despise political correctness/what feminism has devolved into/SJW's, all of this worthless rubbish so very much. It's not just irritating it's mindless and damaging to culture and society. One of the ironies is these unthinking buffoons help cause things like Trump, for example, to happen. 

This situation of retards on the supposedly progressive left side and retards who support Trump; It's a tragic ouroboros of extremes, of people who don't care about wisdom, justice and being right but instead simply want their side to 'win' in a pathetically lazy and misguided attempt to nurture their frail, tattered, confused, mortal existence.

My advice to people is argue and denounce and ridicule the morons(whichever side they're on) now and then when necessary but beyond that just disengage and give up. Most people on the forum are good people there's only a few pieces of shit on here who I'm aware of. Most people, not just the ones I meet in life, most people in the entire world are at least somewhat decent folks - so we should try to focus on that and appreciate and cherish all those fellow human beings while the world burns inevitably. In summary, yep, we're fucked.

Agree absolutely. It seems you have to be to one extreme or another; debate, discussion and understanding seem to have vanished. Or at least that's what we're told. Of my friendship group, and people I encounter, most of them are somewhere in the centre, decent people who can somehow maintain a sense of humour about all this. That gives me tremendous hope as you say. I think that's why I enjoyed Duff's album a lot actually - that seems to me the point he's trying to make. We live in a moronic age where cretins like Trump are in charge, and encourage wilful ignorance of facts, experts and debate....but it will pass, as most people aren't actually like that. These idiots are actually the minority, as are the idiots on the extreme left. 

  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Acknowledging that the ISE lyrics we written when they were young dumb kids would have been a FAR better way to go about it than making up a complete lie and expecting people to believe it. 

If Duff had said "Look, we didn't know any better when I wrote those lyrics" the problem would have been solved. Instead, his answer plays the interviewer, the fans and woman in general for fools. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

I think it'll deal with politics in some way. It seems to be the direction they're going in on a personal level, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't feature in some way. 

 

Agree absolutely. It seems you have to be to one extreme or another; debate, discussion and understanding seem to have vanished. Or at least that's what we're told. Of my friendship group, and people I encounter, most of them are somewhere in the centre, decent people who can somehow maintain a sense of humour about all this. That gives me tremendous hope as you say. I think that's why I enjoyed Duff's album a lot actually - that seems to me the point he's trying to make. We live in a moronic age where cretins like Trump are in charge, and encourage wilful ignorance of facts, experts and debate....but it will pass, as most people aren't actually like that. These idiots are actually the minority, as are the idiots on the extreme left. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×