Duff McKagan defends misunderstood '80s lyrics

[Rayno]

35 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I don't need the 'woke' dinosaurs from GN'R to illuminate me on who Trump is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

[Blackstar]

Like I've said before, I generally don't have a problem with the lyrics, but with the actions. Actions aren't open to interpretation, they're only open to explanation, e.g. by providing the context - and there is a context in which these guys behaved and acted in a certain way in the 80s (and which Duff is clearly trying to sugarcoat).

As far as lyrics go, even the simplest and the most straightforward ones are open to interpretation - especially when someone doesn't know much about the artist/band or what they said in interviews over the years etc, and just happens to hear a song - because there are different perspectives from which something can be written. And sometimes the simplest lyrics are the easiest to be misinterpreted, because people don't put any thought into them.

Duff's current defense of It's So Easy is weak (although the chorus "It's so easy/but nothing seems to please me" states that the narrator doesn't get satisfaction from the situations he describes in the verses, including "Turn around bitch..."  so it might be interpreted as indicating that he doesn't approve them -  but this isn't what Duff is saying). He had done better in that 2010 BBC interview he mentions in this article.

On the other hand, what he says about some of the other songs, like Welcome to the Jungle and Paradise City, is the way I've always interpreted them too. I never took them as just party songs about drugs and sex. WTTJ, for example, is a really simple song, but I guess that many people have taken "we've got fun and games"  etc. just as "Guns N' Roses invites us to party together in the 'jungle'", although to me it's obvious that "we" is not the band/Axl and everything else in the song that's in first person (singular or plural) is said from another perspective.

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Rayno said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

Funny how some posts ago you were calling me a "PC person", now it seems you are using a "PC" to make a point about bollocks, lololololol

BTW....

'know what the f---- I'm saying? old ffffff---!!!"

 

[janrichmond]

29 minutes ago, killuridols said:

'know what the f---- I'm saying? old ffffff---!!!"

It's homefuck

[Lio]

9 hours ago, janrichmond said:

It's homefuck

Might be my favourite Axl word

[Rayno]

10 hours ago, killuridols said:

Funny how some posts ago you were calling me a "PC person", now it seems you are using a "PC"

Yes, it's called irony, my young friend.

[action]

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Edited June 11, 2019 by action

[Sydney Fan]

6 minutes ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, would don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

What are we saying guns is likely to get sued by some fan because they are offended by some bands lyrics?. You may as well lineup every 80s glam bands, and as far as im concerned until such fan wants to sue ted nugent over poor lyrics gnr have nothing to worry about.

[El Guapo]

It really ain't easy for GNR now. Are they trying to do a "dangerous" album next? Something with sleazy/ offensive lyrics to keep the "fuck you" attitude alive somehow?
Or are we getting songs about saving elephants and being nice to everyone?

In a way, they're fucked - what do they have to say? Must be hard for Axl to give it a direction at this point.

[Towelie]

4 hours ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Possibly.

Or maybe Duff has just turned into a giant pussy?

[allwaystired]

3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It really ain't easy for GNR now. Are they trying to do a "dangerous" album next? Something with sleazy/ offensive lyrics to keep the "fuck you" attitude alive somehow?
Or are we getting songs about saving elephants and being nice to everyone?

In a way, they're fucked - what do they have to say? Must be hard for Axl to give it a direction at this point.

I think it'll deal with politics in some way. It seems to be the direction they're going in on a personal level, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't feature in some way. 

 

12 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I despise political correctness/what feminism has devolved into/SJW's, all of this worthless rubbish so very much. It's not just irritating it's mindless and damaging to culture and society. One of the ironies is these unthinking buffoons help cause things like Trump, for example, to happen. 

This situation of retards on the supposedly progressive left side and retards who support Trump; It's a tragic ouroboros of extremes, of people who don't care about wisdom, justice and being right but instead simply want their side to 'win' in a pathetically lazy and misguided attempt to nurture their frail, tattered, confused, mortal existence.

My advice to people is argue and denounce and ridicule the morons(whichever side they're on) now and then when necessary but beyond that just disengage and give up. Most people on the forum are good people there's only a few pieces of shit on here who I'm aware of. Most people, not just the ones I meet in life, most people in the entire world are at least somewhat decent folks - so we should try to focus on that and appreciate and cherish all those fellow human beings while the world burns inevitably. In summary, yep, we're fucked.

Agree absolutely. It seems you have to be to one extreme or another; debate, discussion and understanding seem to have vanished. Or at least that's what we're told. Of my friendship group, and people I encounter, most of them are somewhere in the centre, decent people who can somehow maintain a sense of humour about all this. That gives me tremendous hope as you say. I think that's why I enjoyed Duff's album a lot actually - that seems to me the point he's trying to make. We live in a moronic age where cretins like Trump are in charge, and encourage wilful ignorance of facts, experts and debate....but it will pass, as most people aren't actually like that. These idiots are actually the minority, as are the idiots on the extreme left. 

[RussTCB]

4 hours ago, action said:

in these PC times, there were 3 things duff could do: stand by his words / say nothing / saying they were misunderstood. obviously he did the worst he could do.

or did he?

duff is a smart guy. He observes the world, and he sees how the world has collectively gone "woke". twitter social justice warriors are always on the hunt for the next small thing to be offended about. If you and me see this, you can bet your ass that Duff, and everyone in the band sees this too.

Duff being the financial / economical expert in the band, he must see this social justice war as a threat to future GNR earnings.

People are easily manipulated. There is a fair share of ticket buyers who can't be called harcore fans, who don't have the spine to see the band should they be the target of another ridiculous twitter rage. That would mean a massive drop in income.

The social justice war, is a war you can not win. SJW's are absolutely immune to logic and reason, and shout "nazi scum" at the slightest opportunity. A day without calling someone "nazi scum", is a day not lived. These SJW's are very powerfull, they masterfully use twitter as a weapon. One vocal SJW can cause a storm, thousand SJW's are enough to cause worldwide uproar.

... this is no joke guys. These really are fucked up times.

What is Duff supposed to do? He sees the storm approacing. The financial future of the band is at stake.

yet, I don't know which one is worse. the SJW's or spineless Duff fearing for his income.

So what should YOU make of it, the hardcore GNR fan? My advice to you is, don't expect the next GNR album to be anything remotely exciting like appetite was. Be prepared for a massive cringefest, and just be happy the old albums are still available.

Acknowledging that the ISE lyrics we written when they were young dumb kids would have been a FAR better way to go about it than making up a complete lie and expecting people to believe it. 

If Duff had said "Look, we didn't know any better when I wrote those lyrics" the problem would have been solved. Instead, his answer plays the interviewer, the fans and woman in general for fools. 

[Towelie]

7 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Acknowledging that the ISE lyrics we written when they were young dumb kids would have been a FAR better way to go about it than making up a complete lie and expecting people to believe it. 

If Duff had said "Look, we didn't know any better when I wrote those lyrics" the problem would have been solved. Instead, his answer plays the interviewer, the fans and woman in general for fools. 

To be fair to Duff though, nowhere in that interview does he say the lyrics to ISE were misunderstood.

Although this is a flat-out lie: "I don't remember anyone I hang out with using the N-word, or the C-word."

He does know we all own a copy of Appetite and UYI, doesn't he??!

[EvanG]

I don't see how he is ''defending'' anything. He is explaining how things were for him back then and that there was no ''weinstein'' shit going on as far as he knew.

[Rovim]

5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't see how he is ''defending'' anything. He is explaining how things were for him back then and that there was no ''weinstein'' shit going on as far as he knew.

he's lying his ass off in that interview saying the ISE lyrics were written jokingly. He was just kidding and other lies. No one used the C and N word that he knew about (except the lead singer of his band)

Also I think Izzy sold girls on top of being a drug dealer, he makes it sound like they were good guys which I seriously doubt. He's defending their image with bullshit.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rovim

[EvanG]

Just now, Rovim said:

he's lying his ass off in that interview saying the ISE lyrics were written jokingly. He was just kidding and other lies. No one used the C and N word that he knew about (except the lead singer of his band)

Who says they weren't? People here are so full of themselves assuming shit and thinking they know everything even though they never even met those guys.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Who says they weren't? People here are so full of themselves assuming shit and thinking they know everything even though they never even met those guys.

I think I know what you mean but no, it wasn't said jokingly.

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Are you high mate? 

No one's saying they know everything. But we can say with certainty Duff's full of shit, they definitely said cunt and n*gger and weren't simply "good guys".

to be fair I kinda know everything.

[Sydney Fan]

31 minutes ago, Towelie said:

To be fair to Duff though, nowhere in that interview does he say the lyrics to ISE were misunderstood.

Although this is a flat-out lie: "I don't remember anyone I hang out with using the N-word, or the C-word."

He does know we all own a copy of Appetite and UYI, doesn't he??!

And lies as well!  Im sure he was with axl when they were recording oiam.

[Rovim]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Oh, I know that. I also know that you know that I know that you know that I know everything.

I know.

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Are you high mate? 

No one's saying they know everything. But we can say with certainty Duff's full of shit, they definitely said cunt and n*gger and weren't simply "good guys".

I was yesterday, but I'm good now. But seriously, on the previous page someone is stating that Duff is saying this for financial reasons... this is so stupid. I don't see anything wrong with his response. I don't think he's a misogynist, I don't think that stupid line in ISO should be taken seriously. Whether or not they were saying those two specific words all the time, who knows... I was too young to hang with them back then and I was living on the other side of the world so how can I even comment on that?

[ZoSoRose]

They were all jagoffs back in the day. This is common knowledge, no?

[Rovim]

37 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I was yesterday, but I'm good now. But seriously, on the previous page someone is stating that Duff is saying this for financial reasons... this is so stupid. I don't see anything wrong with his response. I don't think he's a misogynist, I don't think that stupid line in ISO should be taken seriously. Whether or not they were saying those two specific words all the time, who knows... I was too young to hang with them back then and I was living on the other side of the world so how can I even comment on that?

Not for financial reasons but maybe cause Duff doesn't want to take responsibility for what he wrote decades ago cause now he's like... aware and shit and seems to care a lot about being a better person and spread the word but the way he does that here is cowardly and insincere imo and most of all unneeded, he can do that without disowning his past plus how many times has he sang Attitude for example and was he singing it jokingly? the 80's were kinda a sexist time and Appetite lyrically described how the band lived and honestly you could say they were a sexist band.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rovim

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Not for financial reasons but maybe cause Duff doesn't want to take responsibility for what he wrote decades ago cause now he's like... aware and shit and seems to care a lot about being a better person and spread the word but the way he does that here is cowardly and insincere imo and most of all unneeded, he can do that without disowning his past plus how many times has he sang Attitude for example and did he sang it jokingly? the 80's were kinda a sexist time and Appetite lyrically described how the band lived and honestly you could say they were a sexist band.

But I don't know if that is his past. The thing is... I don't know them. People here assume so much and think they know those guys so well because of what they have read. I try to be more open minded. Duff was raised by women, doesn't mean he can't be sexist, but I have a problem putting a label on someone I don't know enough about to make such a statement. They probably weren't always respectful to people, including women, but I don't think he is arguing that. That doesn't mean they were pulling Weinstein shit and that is what he is speaking out against.

[Rovim]

51 minutes ago, EvanG said:

But I don't know if that is his past. The thing is... I don't know them. People here assume so much and think they know those guys so well because of what they have read. I try to be more open minded. Duff was raised by women, doesn't mean he can't be sexist, but I have a problem putting a label on someone I don't know enough about to make such a statement. They probably weren't always respectful to people, including women, but I don't think he is arguing that. That doesn't mean they were pulling Weinstein shit and that is what he is speaking out against.

technical as always but technically yeah I don't know the man it's possible the lyrics were a joke and Duff wasn't sexist at all and was super respectful of women so to clarify it is my opinion, based on the kind of band and era and the subject matter of the tunes and how I interpret the lyrics and what I do know about the band and it's members that Duff 2.0 is very different to the man he was before. Older and sober with a family and values that he cultivated and wants to live by and perhaps for others to live by as well.

I will say this: sometimes you don't need proof to get the gist of it, of how it was. You kinda get the picture. If it walks like a duck. I realize that could be dangerous to assume shit in some cases but this is a sleazy rock n' roll band from the 80's with books written by most of it's members, with video interviews and some credible information about the band but like I said it's just the way I see it (and many others in this thread it seems)

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rovim

[Gnrcane]

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

And lies as well!  Im sure he was with axl when they were recording oiam.

Even if he wasn't there when the vocals were recorded, he sure as hell was at the CBGB show when they performed it live.