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RussTCB

Universal Vault Fire: HUGE loss to historical master recordings, including GN'R

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19 hours ago, RussTCB said:

And that's where the big loss lies: things like that SHOULD have been backed up, but even then that would mean it's a second generation and not the original. Having said that, what record companies should do and what they actually do is two totally different things. 

If they'd backed up everything they should have, I would imagine they would have come forward on their own when the fire happened as opposed to having the NY Times inform us of the actual amount of stuff lost 11 years later. 

You're still not getting it. It's not a matter of if we would ever hear those multi tracks. It's a matter of what could be done with them in the future possibly. Any possibility is completely gone now for anything that was lost in that fire. 

Well, as i said, we need a list of what is really lost and NOT backed upped properly. It's all coming down to that. Then, and not before, we can cry or party, whatever.
And no, i get it, loosing masters is surely a no go and there have to be consequences, yeah. But again....if it has been backed up in high end quallity, it doesnt matter at all. You would never get analog multitracks for your listening pleasure as consumer, they are all digital releases coming from "back ups in 24/384 and/or DSD" (or so). So, as bad as all this is.....it's about what has been backed upped digitally from the best possible sources.

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22 minutes ago, Lim666 said:

Well, as i said, we need a list of what is really lost and NOT backed upped properly. It's all coming down to that. Then, and not before, we can cry or party, whatever.
And no, i get it, loosing masters is surely a no go and there have to be consequences, yeah. But again....if it has been backed up in high end quallity, it doesnt matter at all. You would never get analog multitracks for your listening pleasure as consumer, they are all digital releases coming from "back ups in 24/384 and/or DSD" (or so). So, as bad as all this is.....it's about what has been backed upped digitally from the best possible sources.

I'm sorry but there's just a lot more to it than that. 

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34 minutes ago, Lim666 said:

Well, as i said, we need a list of what is really lost and NOT backed upped properly. It's all coming down to that. Then, and not before, we can cry or party, whatever.
And no, i get it, loosing masters is surely a no go and there have to be consequences, yeah. But again....if it has been backed up in high end quallity, it doesnt matter at all. You would never get analog multitracks for your listening pleasure as consumer, they are all digital releases coming from "back ups in 24/384 and/or DSD" (or so). So, as bad as all this is.....it's about what has been backed upped digitally from the best possible sources.

Yeah if it's all been digitally transferred then it's fine the issue is if it hasn't been, and I would think if it had then the company would have said that already. 

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The Los Angeles Times article about the lawsuit that is about to be filed by a number of artists:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190614225249/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-umg-fire-recordings-lawsuits-universal-studios-20190613-story.html

(I'm posting the web.archive link because the L.A Times website blocks IP's from EU countries)

It's interesting to see if GnR will participate in the lawsuit. The main law firm that handles it is run by the legal team that worked with GnR in the past, but I think GnR works with another law firm now.

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16 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The Los Angeles Times article about the lawsuit that is about to be filed by a number of artists:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190614225249/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-umg-fire-recordings-lawsuits-universal-studios-20190613-story.html

It's interesting to see if GnR will participate in the lawsuit. The main law firm that handles it is run by the legal team that worked with GnR in the past, but I think GnR works with another law firm now.

could be an interesting 12 months keeping up with this.

UMG could say "we own it so accident or not we do what we like with it"

then as for the artists it could be a case of "dont bite the hand that feeds you"

 

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On 14. 06. 2019. at 6:50 PM, RussTCB said:

You honestly don't think that the master tracks being lost for all of these amazing moments in history is a big deal? Take the fidelity aspect out of it and think about the multi tracks alone. I don't know much about the UYI recordings, but let's say the original master tapes for UYI are gone. That would mean that instead of the original, 32 track recording where everything is separated into individual tracks, all we're left with is a mix down. It's along the lines of what I explained earlier in the thread with regard to "At Last" by Etta James 

Russ...LOL.  How about you learn to accept other peopl think differently than you, wheather you ilke it or not.

I personally do have my 2 AFD d's and don't give a flying fuck what was destroyed.  They released LnL last year,  what fucking else do you want from AFD after 30 years!?!? :facepalm:

Where do you think they released LnL stuff from if key stuff was lost? Do you know for a fact that 'master' of 'all masters' was lost and there will never be another one like that? Damn!

Personally, I read a lor of nonsense from you through the years and nobody bothered to go after you like you go after ppl who don't agree with you.

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47 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Unnmmm.... What? 

First things first; we're still not even sure what was lost with regard to GNR. 

Second, this particular topic isn't a matter of opinion and that's why I'm "going after" people. 

Whether or not the original master tapes are the absolute best recording of an album is not something you can agree or disagree on. It's just plain fact that the original master tapes are the one, only and best possible source for archival recordings. 

So it's not a matter of learning to accept that other people have different opinions than I do because this particular part of rhe discussion isn't opinion based, it's fact based. 

Lastly, a lot of the "nonsense you've read" from me over the probably was in opinion based discussions. I've always been more than happy to admit that I have many unpopular opinions with regard to the history of GNR. Debating others opinions on topics is pretty much what the board is based on. 

No, you're lying Russ. Admit it. You go after people. The Master of all masters! Robin Finck SUX1! we are not afraid anymore.

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17 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Unnmmm.... What? 

First things first; we're still not even sure what was lost with regard to GNR. 

Second, this particular topic isn't a matter of opinion and that's why I'm "going after" people. 

Whether or not the original master tapes are the absolute best recording of an album is not something you can agree or disagree on. It's just plain fact that the original master tapes are the one, only and best possible source for archival recordings. 

So it's not a matter of learning to accept that other people have different opinions than I do because this particular part of rhe discussion isn't opinion based, it's fact based. 

Lastly, a lot of the "nonsense you've read" from me over the probably was in opinion based discussions. I've always been more than happy to admit that I have many unpopular opinions with regard to the history of GNR. Debating others opinions on topics is pretty much what the board is based on. 

Obviously that guy doesn't care about other artists' work or property.

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8 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

I saw that. I had some hope when I started the article, then realized much of it is expected spin. 

I'd love for them to have to tell us what was lost instead of hiding behind "reasons" why they can't 

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

I saw that. I had some hope when I started the article, then realized much of it is expected spin. 

I'd love for them to have to tell us what was lost instead of hiding behind "reasons" why they can't 

Yeah they're just trying to do damage control instead of being upfront. I hope those artists who have contacted him sue them anyway.

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Here I was looking forward to hearing a YCBM demo on a UYI boxset.... fuck I hope it hasn’t all been lost :(

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The artists that recorded for MCA Records in the 50s-80s are the ones that had the most to lose in the fire - Steely Dan, The Crusaders, Spyro Gyra, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Neil Diamond, Jimmy Buffett, Bing Crosby, pretty much everything US Decca from the swing era - and some of the 80s metal bands and pop groups on MCA. Bobby Brown/New Edition...   Also keep in mind there are remaster projects that also happened in Europe and Asia and the master tapes were shipped over - sometimes those remasters were better than what was released in America. Casablanca was bought out by Universal so that includes KISS and P-Funk tapes.  Irving Azoff looked into it but he hasn't sued... yet. 

 

 

 

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"Sheryl Crow says the original tapes of albums including Tuesday Night Music Club and The Globe Sessions went up in flames in a fire at Universal Studios."
 

Crow, who had seven US top 10 albums between 1995 and 2008, is the first artist to confirm the loss of their recordings since the New York Times' investigation was published two weeks ago.


Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48745638

 

Inb4 all of the "that's great news for music fans" or "that's not even music" predictable jibes re: Sheryl Crow's back catalogue. Bigger picture here is that it's very possible that some of your favourite bands have had music lost in this.

More importantly, having followed this thread, is that Sheryl is the first of artists to speak out about this and confirm that her music was destroyed. The article even suggests that this is the first that Crow even knew that they had been destroyed, so looks as though we will have more artists come out of the woodwork as they are made aware of the scale of devastation.

Finger's crossed that GN'R stuff is ok!

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Bryan Adams find that his masters tapes was lost in Universal fire too.

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On 11/06/2019 at 4:47 PM, DTJ80 said:

What GNR recordings could have been destroyed? The AFD/Lies era couldn’t have been if we got the LNL box and we know some of the ‘95 sessions were in a Warehouse until recently. So can only think UYI-era or CD stuff (although CD stuff may only be digital anyway).

This fire happened about 10yrs ago, so it's very likely the new remastered is a digital copy of the analog master.

This is only getting started now, the lawsuits are coming thick and fast.

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On 19/06/2019 at 2:15 AM, RussTCB said:

I saw that. I had some hope when I started the article, then realized much of it is expected spin. 

I'd love for them to have to tell us what was lost instead of hiding behind "reasons" why they can't 

Reasons why they can't is simple. This is going to be in court for years! They no longer own the masters of the bands material, they ha e reproductions. If the bands take the label to court and say "produce the Masters to my back catalogue" they can't do it, so the artist is now basically in the driver's seat. They are going to get sued by everyone, and rightly so. In a way it's a good thing, because these labels ha e been screwing the artists for a long time, and now they are going to have to cough up $$$ Obviously though, it's more bad than good because it's so much history gone for good!

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On 6/14/2019 at 11:50 AM, RussTCB said:

You honestly don't think that the master tracks being lost for all of these amazing moments in history is a big deal? Take the fidelity aspect out of it and think about the multi tracks alone. I don't know much about the UYI recordings, but let's say the original master tapes for UYI are gone. That would mean that instead of the original, 32 track recording where everything is separated into individual tracks, all we're left with is a mix down. It's along the lines of what I explained earlier in the thread with regard to "At Last" by Etta James 

 

In the case of UYI, that becomes a huge deal. I think we would all like to hear the versions that Slash described, which had a more raw sound than the final versions on Illusion albums. The master tapes in theory would allow someone in the future to go back and create a more raw mix, similar to what Slash described. If that is now gone, it's a huge loss. :(

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23 minutes ago, GNRfan2008 said:

 

In the case of UYI, that becomes a huge deal. I think we would all like to hear the versions that Slash described, which had a more raw sound than the final versions on Illusion albums. The master tapes in theory would allow someone in the future to go back and create a more raw mix, similar to what Slash described. If that is now gone, it's a huge loss. :(

That's exactly what I was trying to say when this story broke. Now take that thought about UYI and times it by at least 1000 other classic recordings. 

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4 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

That's exactly what I was trying to say when this story broke. Now take that thought about UYI and times it by at least 1000 other classic recordings. 

 

Yep, very sad. Buddy Holly is one of my favorites. That would be insane if his master work is gone. Those old recordings were so fragile in the first place, you hate to think that they were not properly backed up to allow maximum quality in the future.

From a selfish standpoint I truly hope the Illusion records were not part of this mess. The amount of over-production that Axl layered into the actual release makes me hope we can get a more stripped down, kickass version of those songs at some point. 

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Posted (edited)

So basically, everything from the Chinese Democracy era that hadn't come out, and the demos that were made before the break up, are possibly buried forever (unless Axl has copies of those of course), is that it? I hope not! :shrugs:

Edited by Propaganda

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5 hours ago, RussTCB said:

That's exactly what I was trying to say when this story broke. Now take that thought about UYI and times it by at least 1000 other classic recordings. 

Just 1000? I would add a few more zeros there.

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