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Sosso

Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

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Ouch. Now this is how you call someone out on their BS

31 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Are you familiar with the #littlemichellelives thing going around? We all knew Michelle was fifteen. Hell, she barely looked her age. Forcible or statutory, you still got a rape. We can all agree that there are different, conflicting, versions of what transpired in December 1985. But every version has a fifteen-year-old girl getting tossed naked from your band’s rehearsal studio into a filthy alley, where she was left shaking, sobbing and wailing from the utter brutality inflicted by your singer, Axl Rose. Does a “good dude” treat another human being like this? Do the other “good dudes” help hide the perpetrator of crimes against a child, then aid in a coverup so that everyone’s dreams of becoming rock stars won’t get smashed like windshields in a riot? How would your life have changed if your world class singer was thrown in to the pokey, before GNR signed a recording contract?

 

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I was actually reading an article about Axl's domestic abuse stuff earlier today and it got me thinking. I wasn't familiar with this story about Michelle until now and I am very interested in hearing more details about it. 

 

These situations sound horrific and paint Axl as a real monster. I know Raz isn't relevant in the slightest, and this letter is so clearly politically motivated, but if this letter hits the mainstream then this could be really bad for Axl.

This stuff would be career-ending for most other artists. I only hope that Axl really has changed and is no longer like this to people. We know him as a very intelligent and sensitive man, but it is certain that his childhood environment did severe damage to him. 

Sigh. 

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6 minutes ago, History2010 said:

I was actually reading an article about Axl's domestic abuse stuff earlier today and it got me thinking. I wasn't familiar with this story about Michelle until now and I am very interested in hearing more details about it. 

 

These situations sound horrific and paint Axl as a real monster. I know Raz isn't relevant in the slightest, and this letter is so clearly politically motivated, but if this letter hits the mainstream then this could be really bad for Axl.

This stuff would be career-ending for most other artists. I only hope that Axl really has changed and is no longer like this to people. We know him as a very intelligent and sensitive man, but it is certain that his childhood environment did severe damage to him. 

Sigh. 

It's common knowledge Axl was accused of rape. Duff and Slash both mentioned it in theor books too. I'm sure many things happened that were not okay, with GNR and with all the other bands at the time. It was a different time though, and I don't think there are many rockstars out there who have nothing to fear, so to speak. If this turns out bad for Axl, we can just as well burn every other rockstar. They all have stories like that and worse. Like Steven Tyler becoming the legal guardian of his girlfriend. It's common knowledge and no one really seems to care. Having sex with an underage girl seemed to have been normal in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure most of them have cleaned up their act long since then though.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Lio said:

It's common knowledge Axl was accused of rape. Duff and Slash both mentioned it in theor books too. I'm sure many things happened that were not okay, with GNR and with all the other bands at the time. It was a different time though, and I don't think there are many rockstars out there who have nothing to fear, so to speak. If this turns out bad for Axl, we can just as well burn every other rockstar. They all have stories like that and worse. Like Steven Tyler becoming the legal guardian of his girlfriend. It's common knowledge and no one really seems to care. Having sex with an underage girl seemed to have been normal in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure most of them have cleaned up their act long since then though.

You can also add jimmy page and lori the 14 year old fan he was "dating" in the 70s. The domestic and emotional abuse between ike and tina turner, chuck berry and his sexual predatory. The music and movie industry has alot of dark history in order for a deal to get done and to keep the palms greased with money.

Edited by Sydney Fan
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12 minutes ago, Lio said:

It's common knowledge Axl was accused of rape. Duff and Slash both mentioned it in theor books too. I'm sure many things happened that were not okay, with GNR and with all the other bands at the time. It was a different time though, and I don't think there are many rockstars out there who have nothing to fear, so to speak. If this turns out bad for Axl, we can just as well burn every other rockstar. They all have stories like that and worse. Like Steven Tyler becoming the legal guardian of his girlfriend. It's common knowledge and no one really seems to care. Having sex with an underage girl seemed to have been normal in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure most of them have cleaned up their act long since then though.

It may be common knowledge to us, but I guarantee that 95% of the general public has no idea about it or the domestic abuse stuff and would be horrified to hear about it. The underage stuff may have been more common back then but it certainly isn't looked at as normal. We are seeing people like Roman Polanski's career still suffer (with good reason) because raping an underage girl back in the late 70s, so it isn't like people will just say 'it was a different time' and move on. 

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10 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's interesting that Raz Cue says this now about the 1985 incident. I've read his book (which was released not long ago), and he gives a different version of that there:

About a week after the Roxy gig, at a more intimate gathering, some psycho chick who had stalked Axl for more than a year showed up. She usually sported knee-high suede moccasins, the type chicks with hairy pits love, so was often referred to as “That crazy bitch wearing the Dio boots.” Soon after Dio Boots wandered down the alley in search of Axl – who hadn’t been there all day – she was told to get lost. Eventually, someone led her by an elbow out to the street. But twenty minutes later, she returned with cops, claiming Axl had raped her. The cops made everyone come out of the studio, where Dio Boots pointed at Dizzy Reed from The Wild and said, “That’s Axl. He raped me.” As Dizzy got hauled off, people yelled at the cops, “That’s not Axl!” and, “That chick’s crazy!”

[...]  After three months at Gardner Studio, the place was getting hotter than a super model singing torch songs in a kiln. With rent due, a growing number of the humped-dumped begging for more, plus a few too many psycho stalkers, the time felt right to get the fuck out of studio B. The guys scattered about Hollywood, or, as a last resort, hid away at Vicky’s apartment. [Raz Cue, The Days of Guns N' Raz's, 2017]

 

 

That's funny. Someone should confront him with that wherever he has posted that open letter.

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You beat me to it, @Blackstar :lol:

Best case scenario: Consensual sex, Axl didn't know she was underage (or she wasn't underage). She provoked Axl (and others) to throw her out without her clothes.

Worst case scenario: Rape. Underage. Beaten and thrown out without her clothes. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

You beat me to it, @Blackstar :lol:

Best case scenario: Consensual sex, Axl didn't know she was underage (or she wasn't underage). She provoked Axl (and others) to throw her out without her clothes.

Worst case scenario: Rape. Underage. Beaten and thrown out without her clothes. 

Wasn't she 15 back then??? 15 is legal in many places.

 

Im pretty sure there wasn't any rape involved... They may not be brightest beings, but no way they would be that stupid.

Edited by acor

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, acor said:

Wasn't she 15 back then??? 15 is legal in many places.

 

Im pretty sure there wasn't any rape involved... They may not be brightest beings, but no way they would be that stupid.

I'm no legal expert but I highly doubt 15 was "legal" in California in the 80s.  And surely someone's gonna google it and try to prove me wrong, but even if there was some legal technicality left over from the 1800s, surely adult men fucking 15 year old girls was at least "frowned upon."

And people use the word "rape" automatically with statuatory, even if the girl consents it's still considered rape, since a child can't "legally" consent to sex.

 

Also, I wouldn't be so damn sure about sticking up for these guys.  You really think the GNR of 1985 wouldn't be that stupid?  How many times was Axl arrested back then?

Hell, even in Slash's book there's an incident with a groupie that wasn't rape but would probably be considered sexual assault.  Definitely "raaaaapppee!!!" by today's standards.

Edited by estrangedtwat

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3 hours ago, Lio said:

It's common knowledge Axl was accused of rape. Duff and Slash both mentioned it in theor books too. I'm sure many things happened that were not okay, with GNR and with all the other bands at the time. It was a different time though, and I don't think there are many rockstars out there who have nothing to fear, so to speak. If this turns out bad for Axl, we can just as well burn every other rockstar. They all have stories like that and worse. Like Steven Tyler becoming the legal guardian of his girlfriend. It's common knowledge and no one really seems to care. Having sex with an underage girl seemed to have been normal in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure most of them have cleaned up their act long since then though.

So it's OK when it's Axl, cause you like him....but it's not OK for other celebrities like Bill Cosby or Kevin Spacey.   Got it.

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Just now, estrangedtwat said:

So it's OK when it's Axl, cause you like him....but it's not OK for other celebrities like Bill Cosby or Kevin Spacey.   Got it.

No, it's not okay if he raped her. I never said it was. As I said, I'm sure pretty much all of the rock scene in those days did things that weren't okay. I was merely saying that it doesn't really seem the end of Steven Tyler's career, or Iggy Pop's, or David Bowie's, as the poster I reacted to was saying it might be the end of Axl's career. Nowhere am I saying it is okay for anyone to rape a girl.

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2 minutes ago, Italian girl said:

who is raz cue?

The first manager of L.A. Guns and Guns N' Roses.

Either way, this is old news, and if the above-posted interviews are anything to go by, Axl and Slash were already investigated and got off back then (even if they did bear some culpability). 

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3 minutes ago, Italian girl said:

who is raz cue?

Manager of early LA Guns and sort-of manager of GN'R in the band's very early days. 

Cue: "[...]but in reality, all I did was let them use my place for band meetings. Or, if they were short, I'd chip in a few bucks - like five - for rehearsal. I'd share my reheated leftover Naugles' French fries, or let them borrow my van, amps, cabinets, wireless microphone, or whatever they needed. Joe, Guns N' Roses' stage manager, would cart all the gear to the show, and when my van came home, so did my gear. No charge. With a vast fecal sea of inferior bands drowning Hollywood, it was my pleasure  to help out an obviously above-average group. Didn't cost me nothing, and that gear would just have sat in storage with my van stuck in the driveway. Plus, I got to see G N' R well over a hundred times and you didn't" [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 204].

But Cue grew frustrated with the band and their circle of friends stealing his equipment to score drugs, and kicked Axl out of his apartment [Raz Cue, "The Days of Guns, & Raz's", 2015, p. 217-218]. With that his semi-official management of Guns N' Roses ended. Then Black Randy, Vicky Hamilton, Brigitte Wright and Arnold Stiefel took over pseudo-managerial duties until finally Alan Niven was brought in.

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to me, GNR all look like a bunch of cunts these days (with the exception of Steven, who pays hard cash for his honesty and loyality to the essence of the band).

trying to score cheap woke points and being cold as steel when a former friend is in hospital

I don't care what anyone says: these people are as real as cardboard these days

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17 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

My impression is that Raz Cue doesn't really give a shit about the abused girl (to throw someone on the street naked -which seems to be the true part of the story-is abuse) who was "scarred for life," the same girl who he calls a "psycho chick" and a "bitch" in his book. He only cares about supporting Trump.

Who said it was the same girl?

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