Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

[GnR Chris]

13 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

 

 

Its a no brainer he’s violent with women, his own statements (if quoted accurately) point to that.

“The rape charges settled my hormones for a while” 

HUH? 

 

That could simply mean after he was accused of rape, he started being more self-aware of his celebrity status and tried not to get himself in situations where he could be falsely accused of sexual assault. It isn't at all an admittance of violence against women.

 

(Edit for typo.)

Edited July 6, 2019 by GnR Chris

[DTJ80]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Still zero evidence. Saying random contradictory statements which vaguely and redundantly corroborates information which is already publicly known from interviews etc for decades is not evidence. In fact that points further to it clearly being cobbled together. 

I'm not going to be held hostage and pressured into trusting some untrustworthy stranger who's making such serious claims in such an unserious way. 

And the removal of the post this morning is weird - it was linked to a Facebook page but when I went to read it the page had been removed?? One of the mods here must have removed the post?

[alfierose]

13 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

@alfierose @RussTCB @janrichmond what's that about?

I don't know, Russ removed it. There was a post below that said the link didn't work so maybe that was it.

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, alfierose said:

I don't know, Russ removed it. There was a post below that said the link didn't work so maybe that was it.

That was part of it. Also, I don't want anyone posting the link to their personal fb page on the open forum. 

[DTJ80]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

That was part of it. Also, I don't want anyone posting the link to their personal fb page on the open forum. 

Cheers for explaining Russ - when you say ‘part of it’ was there something else at play? I wonder what the deleted FB page was.....odd.

Edited July 6, 2019 by DTJ80
Clarity

[RussTCB]

8 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Cheers for explaining Russ - when you say ‘part of it’ was there something else at play? I wonder what the deleted FB page was.....odd.

You're welcome the other part was just that it was a broken link, or deleted page. Even if it was a working link, I just don't think we need to have people posting their fb pages on the open forum. Everyone can share them all the like via pm lol 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

I know the book Watch You Bleed has a bad reputation, but I just reread the parts that deal with this incident. According to the book, there was another separate statutory rape charge filed against Slash around the same time the police were after Axl for raping Michelle. Maybe that is what is causing some confusion.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Scream of the Butterfly

[Ratam]

This thread is become in true headache.....you need be too much careful to that someone interpret you of wrong form.... then sadly we need selfcensure.... 🚫

[Scream of the Butterfly]

2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Still zero evidence. Saying random contradictory statements which vaguely and redundantly corroborates information which is already publicly known from interviews etc for decades is not evidence. In fact that points further to it clearly being cobbled together. 

I'm not going to be held hostage and pressured into trusting some untrustworthy stranger who's making such serious claims in such an unserious way. 

"Hi random stranger here. Believe my bullshit or else you're a bad person! Also, buy my book." Fuck that.

What kind of evidence are you expecting to see? I think it's pretty obvious she's not going to be posting any DNA samples.

It's ok to be on the fence and not just take her word for it, but your hostile tone is unwarranted.

[Powderfinger]

2 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

That could simply mean after he was accused of rape, he started being more self-aware of his celebrity status and tried not to get himself in situations where he could be falsely accused of sexual assault. It isn't at all an admittance of violence against women.

 

(Edit for typo.)

It could mean this yes, but Axl said “his hormones” calmed down for a while. It doesn’t sound like an intellectual or self aware decision. Sounds like sexual urges. 

[janrichmond]

30 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I know the book Watch You Bleed has a bad reputation, but I just reread the parts that deal with this incident. According to the book, there was another separate statutory rape charge filed against Slash around the same time the police were after Axl for raping Michelle. Maybe that is what is causing some confusion.

 

In Mick Walls book Slash was charged with Axl. Slash’s charge was dropped first.

[DTJ80]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

You're welcome the other part was just that it was a broken link, or deleted page. Even if it was a working link, I just don't think we need to have people posting their fb pages on the open forum. Everyone can share them all the like via pm lol 

Cheers. Suspense and paranoia is rife on the board at the minute. 🙁

[GnR Chris]

1 hour ago, Powderfinger said:

It could mean this yes, but Axl said “his hormones” calmed down for a while. It doesn’t sound like an intellectual or self aware decision. Sounds like sexual urges. 

Exactly. And he was stating he wasn't going to act on these sexual urges do to exhibiting caution (over opening himself up to false accusations) moving forward.

[killuridols]

On 5 de julio de 2019 at 5:47 PM, Minche said:

If it's not about the money, then why settle? If someone did something as horrific as they claimed Axl did to them, no money on earth could make me settle and let the fker walk free, and I mean it. Lets not even mention who Seymour is married to, today...🙄  Also, I remember reading about those girls being quite crazy themselves and in no way, shape or form as innocent as they tried to portray themselves. I mean, Erin was arrested on assault charges, no? Attacking her ex with a knife, or some such trivial thing. lols 

As for Kennedy, no, it doesn't seem odd, it seems very odd, to me anyway. She basically described rape scene with little to no emotion. Not strange at all. 

This happened in the 80's and early 90's.... Do you really think that going further with their cases would have put Axl in jail? A white powerful celebrity in jail? Yeah, right. Not even a black man like O.J. Simpson was found guilty. And to be honest, I don't think Axl would be put in jail now, in spite of all the feminism and #metoo movement, he's still too much of a cash cow for a lot of people, just like he was back then.

Also, how come you're not asking the same question for Axl's side? Why settle if he was innocent? Why give money to those "liars", huh? 🙄

What does Seymour husband have to do with anything? 

Who do you mean by not so innocent girls?   I don't remember any person trying to portrait themselves as "innocent" (whatever the heck that means) but what it is depicable is that you imply that women who don't behave like nuns deserve to be abused, raped, beaten up, etc... Following that logic, Axl and co. also deserve to be raped, abused and beaten up, because they didn't behave like saints either.

Erin defended herself when her ex tried to take away the baby she was breastfeeding, that is her youngest daughter. Not a trivial thing IMO, maybe for you it is trivial that a mother defends her child. 

As for Sheila, she didn't describe it as a rape scene. She described it as consensual violent sex. She didn't know him, she was attracted to him, wanted to have sex with him and in spite of being suspicious of his behavior, she decided to go on with that sexual encounter. It's not rocket science.

[janrichmond]

Removed posts for going too far off topic, please stay on topic, thank you 

[Minche]

25 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This happened in the 80's and early 90's.... Do you really think that going further with their cases would have put Axl in jail? A white powerful celebrity in jail? Yeah, right. Not even a black man like O.J. Simpson was found guilty. And to be honest, I don't think Axl would be put in jail now, in spite of all the feminism and #metoo movement, he's still too much of a cash cow for a lot of people, just like he was back then.

Also, how come you're not asking the same question for Axl's side? Why settle if he was innocent? Why give money to those "liars", huh? 🙄

What does Seymour husband have to do with anything? 

Who do you mean by not so innocent girls?   I don't remember any person trying to portrait themselves as "innocent" (whatever the heck that means) but what it is depicable is that you imply that women who don't behave like nuns deserve to be abused, raped, beaten up, etc... Following that logic, Axl and co. also deserve to be raped, abused and beaten up, because they didn't behave like saints either.

Erin defended herself when her ex tried to take away the baby she was breastfeeding, that is her youngest daughter. Not a trivial thing IMO, maybe for you it is trivial that a mother defends her child. 

As for Sheila, she didn't describe it as a rape scene. She described it as consensual violent sex. She didn't know him, she was attracted to him, wanted to have sex with him and in spite of being suspicious of his behavior, she decided to go on with that sexual encounter. It's not rocket science.

Miss me with that rich, white or black celebrity bullshit. If there's evidence, you're done. Don't start me on OJ Simpson's trial. I could write a novel about that one, but this is neither the time nor the place for that. 

Seymour's husband's mentioned to give an insight into what kind of a woman she is: a goldigger. Don't try convincing me she was sold on his beauty, muscle and intellect, please. 🙄

By not so innocent, I was referring to Everly and Seymour. 

So, Erin pulling a knife over the said issue is perfectly normal by your standards? Ooohkay, miss.Womencantdonowrong. Smh. 

Where on earth have I implied any woman or a man deserves violent treatment? Just where? You either have reading comprehension issues or you simply enjoy twisting people's words.(I've seen you do this before) 

Why settle? Between court dates, which can go on for years, a decade, give or take, ridicilous amounts of money spent on lawyers and other corresponding fees, public/media lynch mentality, mental or other health issues followed by all the stress one endures during a trial... If it was me, and I had the money- pretty damn sure I'd settle too, no matter how other perceived that. 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

Literally any evidence would be a start. The police report. Medical reports. Reliable witnesses. Photos proving she at least even knew Axl. Her story not being full of contradictions as it is.

At this point I'm no longer on the fence; it's obviously not true. 

I don't agree with you about my tone being hostile and that not being warranted. 

Just edited that last bit out because I realised the book you were referring to, not you, must be saying Axl raped Michelle. Which again, there is no evidence at all to warrant that claim.

It's not difficult to understand that she might not want to provide such documents or doesn't even have them. However, if she's putting out a book maybe some of those reports will be included.

I don't know what contradictions you are talking about or how it's obviously not true. If it were that obvious, would this thread be even happening?

The book doesn't say Axl raped Michelle, only that the police were looking for him for that reason. The book mainly just cites Axl's version of the story. (Michelle's version wasn't known at the time.) The author also makes the same mistake as some people in this thread and assumes My Michelle was written about this person.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

11 minutes ago, Minche said:

Why settle? Between court dates, which can go on for years, a decade, give or take, ridicilous amounts of money spent on lawyers and other corresponding fees, public/media lynch mentality, mental or other health issues followed by all the stress one endures during a trial... If it was me, and I had the money- pretty damn sure I'd settle too, no matter how other perceived that. 

Yet you can't understand why Erin and Stephanie would agree to settle?

[Powderfinger]

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

Exactly. And he was stating he wasn't going to act on these sexual urges do to exhibiting caution (over opening himself up to false accusations) moving forward.

I have never had to exercise caution with regard to rape and my sexual urges. Rape is not a sexual urge I have. The fact he has to control it on a “hormonal” level  tells me he’s a different type of man than I am. 

[Minche]

51 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Yet you can't understand why Erin and Stephanie would agree to settle?

I never said I can't understand why they would settle. Scroll up and read again. Their motive was rather obvious to me.

Oh, how cool! Just had 'Money' by Pink Floyd in my Youtube recommendations. You know the song? 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Minche said:

Seymour's husband's mentioned to give an insight into what kind of a woman she is: a goldigger. Don't try convincing me she was sold on his beauty, muscle and intellect, please. 🙄

Give an insight on Stephanie?  Who are you, her mother?? 

Geez, your Ad Hominem attacks get weirder the more you post. 

I'm not trying to convince you of any thing, but the gold digger is still married to Quasimodo and has 3 children with him 

2 hours ago, Minche said:

Where on earth have I implied any woman or a man deserves violent treatment? Just where? You either have reading comprehension issues or you simply enjoy twisting people's words.

Your whole chain of spiteful comments against Axl's exes and the girls that described him as a violent abusive man.

You discredit them and denigrate them, bringing up irrelevant (to the subject) events of their personal lives in a desperate attempt to justify Axl's mistreatment of those women.

2 hours ago, Minche said:

So, Erin pulling a knife over the said issue is perfectly normal by your standards? Ooohkay, miss.Womencantdonowrong. Smh. 

I never said women can't do no wrong but there you go once again fallacy after fallacy, getting more desperate each time.

Erin pulling a knife to defend herself and her child is not out of the ordinary for the things a mother would do. I know one woman who lifted a car with her own arms to stop thieves from running away with her baby inside.

2 hours ago, Minche said:

Why settle? Between court dates, which can go on for years, a decade, give or take, ridicilous amounts of money spent on lawyers and other corresponding fees, public/media lynch mentality, mental or other health issues followed by all the stress one endures during a trial... If it was me, and I had the money- pretty damn sure I'd settle too, no matter how other perceived that. 

Yeah, same goes for the victim and even worse having to see the face of their abuser each time. 

I've been told Axl was particularly ridiculous and disgusting during Erin's hearings, so no wonder she ended up settling.

Edited July 7, 2019 by killuridols

[Minche]

12 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Give an insight on Stephanie?  Who are you, her mother?? 

Geez, your Ad Hominem attacks get weirder the more you post. 

I'm not trying to convince you of any thing, but the gold digger is still married to Quasimodo and has 3 children with him 

Your whole chain of spiteful comments against Axl's exes and the girls that described him as a violent abusive men.

You discredit them and denigrate them, bringing up irrelevant (to the subject) events of their personal lives in a desperate attempt to justify Axl's mistreatment of those women.

I never said women can't do no wrong but there you go once again fallacy after fallacy, getting more desperate each time.

Erin pulling a knife to defend herself and her child is not out of the ordinary for the things a mother would do. I know one woman who lifted a car with her own arms to stop thieves from running away with her baby inside.

Yeah, same goes for the victim and even worse having to see the face of their abuser each time. 

I've been told Axl was particularly ridiculous and disgusting during Erin's hearings, so no wonder she ended up settling.

Spiteful comments? Ahahaha, quote me on those, pweaaase 😄😄 So, we should simply look at them as those magazine cover girls, with hot bodies and nada mas? Mentioning their own wrong-doings or any other parts of their profiles is a no, no. Gotcha. 🤭🤭 

Your question was why would HE settle, so I listed number of reasons as to why HE would settle, imo. Now, had you asked me why Seymour/Everly would settle,  I'd respond accordingly. But you didn't. 

Poor Erin. Axl was being a meanie to her, and in court, so she had to settle! 😭 

[DTJ80]

I think it’s fair to say we will not get real answers on this unless it goes legal. So - its a case of innocent until proven guilty in my opinion. A few things I don’t quite get:-

1) This is potentially staggeringly massive news/scandal....so why is there nothing at all in the press?

2) If this did happen back in the day, I find it almost inconceivable that no-one sought to either get retribution (what would most of us do if we had heard that had happened to someone in our own family) or cash-in on the story when Guns got big...surely if it happened then someone must have thought to sell the story?

3) Why was this 15 year old allowed to be in a relationship with someone around 19/20? And even worse - in an environment which was as decadent as 80’s LA?

4) If Axl could have his pick of the girls, why was he in a relationship with a 15 year old?

These are just some of the questions I have on this....what I would say to counterbalance is that much of what this person is saying appears to be fairly detailed to the point where it seems more than just someone ‘doing their homework’. I am not saying it’s all fabricated at all - if it did happen then the abuser should be brought to justice 100%. But that would need it to go to the courts.

And it seems Little Michelle hasn’t been active - I wonder what she was trying to link to earlier today they appeared to have been pulled from Facebook? It’s all such a sorry situation. 🙁

[Powderfinger]

From Slash’s book re their time in Chicago writing for the illusions albums and why he left Chicago at that time: 

 

“The last straw with Axl involved some girls that were brought back to our place one night. Megan had gone out and I was at home in bed. Late at night, I heard some commotion; the sound of a few people filing in and heading past my bedroom down to Axl's room. Until then, Axl had spent most of his time in there alone constantly on the phone. This night was clearly an occasion.

My room was at the front of the apartment, separated from Axl's by our living room and a long railroad-style hallway. So I went down there to see what was going on; I found Earl, Tom Mayhew, Steve, and Axl hanging out with two happy-go-lucky Midwestern girls that they'd brought back. We all hung out, and as it got later, it was suggested that the girls have sex with all of us. They were willing to blow everyone in the room, which seemed reasonable to me, but they didn't want to fuck us. For whatever reason, that really pissed Axl off. The girls had a very intelligent rationale for their point of view, but Axl begged to differ. This debate continued for a moment, and it was pretty relaxed, but suddenly Axl exploded. He threw them out with such rage it was shocking. The way it went down was completely unnecessary. The coup de grace was that one of the girls' dads was a prominent officer with the Chicago police, or so I was told. Later that morning I packed up my stuff and flew back to LA. A few days later, I had Megan move out and join me. 

 

[killuridols]

35 minutes ago, Minche said:

Mentioning their own wrong-doings or any other parts of their profiles is a no, no. Gotcha

Marrying a man is a wrong-doing for you?  Being a model is a wrong-doing? What are you talking about? What did Erin do wrong while being with Axl?

What did they both do that was so bad to deserve to be abused and beaten up?

You keep making no sense.

38 minutes ago, Minche said:

Your question was why would HE settle, so I listed number of reasons as to why HE would settle, imo. Now, had you asked me why Seymour/Everly would settle,  I'd respond accordingly. But you didn't. 

Didn't you say they settled because they were after the money?

You don't even remember the things you post yourself. 

40 minutes ago, Minche said:

Poor Erin. Axl was being a meanie to her, and in court, so she had to settle! 😭 

Yes, poor Axl! So many psycho women after his money have made up all those lies about him being a rapist and wifebeater, when we all know he's the kindest man on Earth. He never hurt his fans and oh, he loves animals, so that's a proof of his innocence!