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Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

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27 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

They weren't though. They were on the rise and by her own admission were about to get signed to a record deal. You don't think there were hangers on surrounding the band back then? They played killer shows, had all the drugs and parties, and were making a name for themselves getting record label attention.

There were hangers but the band were not rich neither millionaires prior to getting a record deal and not even right after they got it. AFD took a long time to take off.

30 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Edit: And, AGAIN, this quote is taken from Watch You Bleed, from my understanding, which is loaded with factual errors. But even if it's an accurate quote, your premise that it's some sort of admission of guilt for sexual assault is ludicrous.

I dont think he ever felt guilty for assaulting women. Not then. Dont know later or now.

Those words are being said by someone who realised his sexual practices could lead to rape accusations, so he was cautious about it for a while. Only for a while, because later he kept doing it to other women and his own wife.

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32 minutes ago, Minche said:

If they were nobodies, like you say, is it safe to assume that could be why she wouldnt testify against him back then? Cause they were broke and nobodies, what could she gain.. not money. So who cares about "justice" right ?

You can assume whatever you want but Michelle already stated why she didn't want to testify against him. 

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3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

You can assume whatever you want but Michelle already stated why she didn't want to testify against him. 

Im stating this: Im super hot, a VS model hot, a multimillionaire, I have a dog, and a cat..  Did I mention I go to gym 5x a week? My faves are koala bears. - But is any of this true? 🤔

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1 minute ago, Minche said:

But is any of this true? 🤔

Depends on who knows you and who doesn't. 

I dont know you so this is a 50-50 chance for me.

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

One detail though: most of these stories happened when Axl & co. were nobodies, so your theory does not apply here.

They were no bodies. They had the IT factor. About to get signed...not yet.

About to have a lot of money take a risk on something not nationally proven...who knew for sure. It is always a gamble. Add the recklessness of the band, a gamble fo the business people.

Geffen etc. did not have ESP. Lol. Soooo soooo many bands. Sooo many fell by wayside. They just did not The IT factor. 

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42 minutes ago, Latx said:

They were no bodies. They had the IT factor. About to get signed...not yet.

About to have a lot of money take a risk on something not nationally proven...who knew for sure. It is always a gamble. Add the recklessness of the band, a gamble fo the business people.

After signing with Geffen it took them 2 years to release AFD and AFD took a year to become a commercial success.

If Michelle's incident happened before them signing a record deal, then it is safe to say that she couldn't possibly know the dimension of the band's success in the near future, unless she was a fortune teller :facepalm:

Not only that.... if she was after the money (as some people here assume), then why didn't she join Erin & Stephanie lawsuits? There were many more chances of her getting money back then than there would be now :shrugs:

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Posted (edited)

According to info from the books, the incident, for lack of a better word, occurred December 1985 (if I am remembering the month correctly), they signed with Geffen March of 1986 and AFD was released July 21, 1987. 

Edited by BlueJean Baby

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

According to info from the books, the incident, for lack of a better word, occurred December 1985 (if I am remembering the month correctly), they signed with Geffen March of 1986 and AFD was released July 21, 1987. 

So im thinking between december and march the band had created a buzz on the scene and were most likely making a name for themselves in the clubs. As LM said she and others had wanted to see the band succeed. I guess she was putting the bands potential first and herself second hence not making waves with reporting the incident that occured.:shrugs:

Edited by Sydney Fan

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

After signing with Geffen it took them 2 years to release AFD and AFD took a year to become a commercial success.

If Michelle's incident happened before them signing a record deal, then it is safe to say that she couldn't possibly know the dimension of the band's success in the near future, unless she was a fortune teller :facepalm:

Not only that.... if she was after the money (as some people here assume), then why didn't she join Erin & Stephanie lawsuits? There were many more chances of her getting money back then than there would be now :shrugs:

I agree. Thnx. Good points. 

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Posted (edited)

Uhhhhh, you guys. I really do not want to say anything against her.

So I’ll say again, I hope she can find peace  and move fromn30-35 years ago for whatever happened to her. We here none know what happened or what was true for her,the other  one, and all the groupies. I make no fun or think lightly of anyone sexually abused. If what happened , happened, then  all that she can do is let fate and karma work itself out as in  you reap what you sow. 

witnesses?  There are no witnesses.  Then or now. All are dead or  unknown today. The living ones who were around then and still now are yes men on payroll. Ex. Dizzy.   Those around then. Izzy for example was Drugged out and passed out then and saw nothing. Yes unknown whereabouts today so to speak. 

Case then or now. There was no case then and definite will not be one today.

Edited by Latx

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Posted (edited)

Soeaking for  my insomniac self  as  I am off from work right now,  I cannot remember three days ago, let alone what happened , who, or where I was on a particular day 30-35 years ago.

Can you?

 

Edited by Latx
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57 minutes ago, Latx said:

Uhhhhh, you guys. I really do not want to say anything against her.

So I’ll say again, I hope she can find peace  and move fromn30-35 years ago for whatever happened to her. We here none know what happened or what was true for her,the other  one, and all the groupies. I make no fun or think lightly of anyone sexually abused. If what happened , happened, then  all that she can do is let fate and karma work itself out as in  you reap what you sow. 

witnesses?  There are no witnesses.  Then or now. All are dead or  unknown today. The living ones who were around then and still now are yes men on payroll. Ex. Dizzy.   Those around then. Izzy for example was Drugged out and passed out then and saw nothing. Yes unknown whereabouts today so to speak. 

Case then or now. There was no case then and definite will not be one today.

While i appreciate that Michelle may have been a victim of abuse, that is no reason not to question her or her claims, especially when she presents her story on an open forum. In any case, had Michelle been abused, I too wish her peace and recovery.

Moving forward, there absolutely were alleged witnesses. We're talking the people who were involved in the crime, those who were witnesses to it (Johnny X, other bystanders in the studio and in the carpark), and those who were involved after the fact and can corroborate information (Dizzy - who presumably was there and rang up Vince, another witness, to collect Michelle). It would have been possible for the police to conduct their investigation with this many leads.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Latx said:

Soeaking for  my insomniac self  as a I am off from work ight now,  I cannot remember three days ago, let alone what happened at a party or gathering  or where I was on a particular day 30-35 years ago.

Can you?

 

That's a strawman argument. Not everybody was fucked up that night - Michelle explicitly mentions those who were. Even then, there were witnesses who were cognisant of the situation - Johnny X, Dizzy, Vince, etc. If the police had done their job following Michelle's mother's reporting, they would have interviewed these witnesses at the time. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Minche said:

What a good heart she has. Sacrificing her own well-being for a band with such an uncertain future. I'm in awe. And boy, do I need to reassess my whole life now. 😏

I didn't say the band had an uncertain future. I said it was impossible for her to guess the impact of the band in the following years after the release of AFD, so your theory of her pursuing the "millions" does not apply.

Also, she said she was sought after by other members of the band to find out what happened, going desperate when she told them. She particularly mentioned Duff going to her house to ask her mom to drop the charges.

As the vulnerable teenager that she was, wouldn't you feel coerced and scared of moving further with the whole thing? She considered the band her "family", which doesn't mean they had the same feelings for her, but as any other teenager infatuated with older guys and their hedonistic lifestyle, it's not hard to figure out why she'd "sacrifice" herself for them.

Add to it that she was probably a girl with low self-esteem, seeking for attention of older men, validation from people she looked up to. A combo of this with the typical adolescent insecurities, plus the shock of being abused by someone she was in love with, can lead anyone and especially a young girl, to want it over ASAP.

 

 

Edited by killuridols
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2 minutes ago, Euchre said:

Raz has also confirmed that this is the girl the incident happened to & that she was 15 at the time. At the very least all parties quoted ie Michelle, Raz and GNR members themselves have said that she ends up naked in the alley. By any sane measure a 15 year old girl having her clothes ripped off by adult men and being thrown into the street is pretty disturbing. It doesn’t matter what the reason was, or whatever the girl did or didn’t do - doing this to a 15 year old is a low act and I’d be surprised if that alone wasn’t criminal. There is no justification for that sort of behaviour or reaction.

No one is trying to justify throwing out a girl naked on the street. That's not what it is about at all. That's been common knowledge for many years.

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As a parent, I just can’t get my head around that a 15 year old would be allowed to hang about in this environment in the first place......full of junkies etc?

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22 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I noticed that too.

Also strange she went to Las Vegas at the same time GnR played the newly opened T-Mobile arena and the area was full of fans celebrating the reunion. 

I would’ve thought that would be something to avoid at all costs. 

There’s an account registered here called Dandypie in 2016 - maybe her too? Bit of a coincidence someone should choose that.

and all these are things, that people don't consider when useing their social medias, a minute of research, and here we go with all the coincidences:facepalm:

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