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Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

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1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

The rock guys remain completely untouched by the Me Too movement. In part because it was always part of their persona’s in the first place and in part because the insane groupie scene muddied the waters to an crazy extent. Duff climbed into this shit of his own volition because he is the most image hungry guy in the group. Duff’s “persona” is very important to him and his persona is that of a college educated dude who started a wealth management group to help other musicians and spends his time being a good husband, great father, and punk as funk. In reality of course, he has no college degree, his wealth management company never existed or even got off the ground, he’s been married three times and he’s using his wealth and parenting skills to turn his young daughters into Instagram-y Rockstar/models. His punk as fuck aesthetic is simply that, an aesthetic- wearing leather pants in front of his mansion/private jet/yacht. Duff is pretending the 80's never happened but Duff pretends a lot.  He's actually kind of sad. He works his ass off for this persona because he is the forgotten member of the Big Three. It’s really more the Big Two and some other guy.

 

Yup. If someone was going to get screwed by the reunion, Id rather it  have been Duff than Izzy. Izzy was way more important to the music, but Duff got better treatment because of his image and persona. I dont dislike Duff as a GNR character. Glad hes back, but his flip flopping through history now is really lame. I'd rather he act like the corporate millionare douche he is than pretend hes something he stopped being decades ago.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, scottish nutter said:

So did dizzy reed hand out with gnr in 1985? Its says this happened in 85 but the girl points out dizzy and says hes axl, i know he didnt join till about 1990

Dizzy was in a band called The Wild from the mid to late 80s. They hung out with GnR a lot and recorded an album in the same studio GnR was at while recording a demo tape, I believe. During a performance of Nightrain in 1986, Axl dedicated the song to “dizzy and his hand,” cause diz was in the crowd with a broken arm at the time.

Edited by rocknroll41
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27 minutes ago, scottish nutter said:

So did dizzy reed hand out with gnr in 1985?

Yes. 

Slash: "Dizzy's an old friend of the band's, too. When Guns were all living in one room off of Sunset, he was in the room next door with his band. We used to have big parties in the parking lot. We always liked him" [Guitar for the Practising Musician, November 1992].

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2 minutes ago, Flake said:

But how do you know that stuff really happened? Seems to me people just need another reason to attack the man.

Im not calling them rapists and shit. Who knows.

But Its no secret they were still misognystic, drug peddling, trash can dwelling assholes back then

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2 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Im not calling them rapists and shit. Who knows.

But Its no secret they were still misognystic, drug peddling, trash can dwelling assholes back then

So what? That's what we loved about them. Duff is acknowledging that, just saying they didn't rape any women or make them do stuff against their will. And I believe that

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

And they were my idols in my adolescence.. \m/

Exactly. They were basically cartoon characters that appealed to a lot of fan's fantasy. Its like why a lot of people like someone like James Bond. We don't want to murder people in real life, same way we dont actually want to sell drugs and live in dumpsters in real life. 

Edited by ZoSoRose
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6 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Yup. If someone was going to get screwed by the reunion, Id rather it  have been Duff than Izzy. Izzy was way more important to the music, but Duff got better treatment because of his image and persona. I dont dislike Duff as a GNR character. Glad hes back, but his flip flopping through history now is really lame. I'd rather he act like the corporate millionare douche he is than pretend hes something he stopped being decades ago.

Great post.. Nothing against Duff and he seems like a great guy but if he wasn't a port of all this I don't think there would be too many "Where's Duff" posts but he was probably the least important of the band when it came to their sound.  I am glad he is in the band for sure and definitely adds more legitimacy to the lineup than if it was just Axl and Slash and I am not saying he isn't at all important to the sound. His bass playing with Gn'R is fairly distinct and his backup vocals help too.. Especially on some of the Appetite stuff.  I also have no problem with who Duff is today. He seems like a solid dude who has been through a lot and grown up. I just think it is stupid to run and hide from your past while pretending it never happened.  Just own up to it and say you have changed. 

2 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Exactly. They were basically cartoon characters that appealed to a lot of fan's fantasy. Its like why a lot of people like someone like James Bond. We don't want to murder people in real life, same way we dont actually want to sell drugs and live in dumpsters in real life. 

Oh I definitely tried to act as much like them as I could in the 80's early 90's hahha, and Slash has a lot to do with the love affair I still have with Jack Daniel's to this day ;)

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^^^

That's the song I want to be played at my funeral

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32 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Let's turn this around; do YOU have any problems with those things?

You seem to be insinuating that anyone who claims to be a fan of GN'R has to be ok with those things. So can we assume you're ok with all of those things? I'm just curious as that seems to be a good place to start before you question others.

 

Lyrics wise, the line in It's So Easy doesn't cause me much alarm, I take it as moody but not actually endorsing non-consensual sexual assault (unlike 'grab em by the pussy,) I do think the lyrics to Attitude are off though, they literally mention physical assault on a woman, so I do think it's weird Duff still sings that. I guess he doesn't make the connection, doesn't see them as literal. Admittedly there may be holes in his moral position but overall I think it's good he is showing more maturity. 

The lyrics to OIAM caused me most bother, they turned me off the band someehat when I heard them, and reconsidered my fan status. It was only really with the advent of the Internet (including great sites like yours) that I was able to form a better backstory to OIAM and see more of a rationale for it. I did always suspect Axl was not an 'ideological racist' as that didn't fit with the wider picture of him.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

Lyrics wise, the line in It's So Easy dosn't cause me much alarm, I take it as moody but not actually endorsing non-consensual sexual assault (unlike 'grab em by the pussy,) I do think the lyrics to Attitude are off though, they literally mention physical assault on a woman, so I do think it's weird Duff still sings that. I guess he doesn't make the connection, doesn't see them as literal. Admittedly there may be holes in his moral position but overall I think it's good he is showing more maturity. 

The lyrics to OIAM caused me most bother, they turned me off the band someehat when I heard them, and reconsidered my fan status. It was only really with the advent of the Internet (including great sites like yours) that I was able to form a better backstory to OIAM and see more of a rationale for it. I did always suspect Axl was not an 'ideological racist' as that didn't fit with the wider picture of him.

I guess that's where we differ. I don't take Duff making up a lie about the ISE lyrics to mean that he's matured. I take it to me he thinks GN'R fans are dumb and would go for his BS. I'm just saying it would be FAR better of him in my opinion if he said "Yep. We were dumb when we wrote that." rather than trying to say it was meant as a joke when it obviously was not. 

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Raz Cue, Alan Niven, Doug Goldstein, Vickie Hamilton, Doc McGhee, Merck, Fernando...Guns has had an interesting past & present with managers. 

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5 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I guess that's where we differ. I don't take Duff making up a lie about the ISE lyrics to mean that he's matured. I take it to me he thinks GN'R fans are dumb and would go for his BS. I'm just saying it would be FAR better of him in my opinion if he said "Yep. We were dumb when we wrote that." rather than trying to say it was meant as a joke when it obviously was not. 

Totally. Let's face it: Duff lied in the press on more than one occasion recently and in doing so has insulted our intelligence. He tried to punk us like Walter White and Jesse Pinkman tried to do to Tuco and it didn't work. Still, I think as an old rich famous guy he's not all lies n' yachts. He seems to have become a better person in other areas so no Duff pinata just yet.

I do question the existence of his spine though, but I still love him as a musician. He's still a Gunner.

 

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54 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

and that's the thing, right? They were young and thought the stuff they were saying and doing was cool. WE are all young and thought the stuff they were saying and doing was cool. We've all grown up since then; them AND us. So now we can all look back on it and say lesson learned. THAT'S the attitude Duff should have had with his responses, not that "it never happened" or "that's not what we meant" bullshit.

Right. It’s strange that Duff doesn’t understand that saying “I was a product of my environment, and this is how I’ve changed and how circumstances have changed” would be a lot more powerful than, “LALALA NeverHappened LALALA.” But that’s how Duff operates. He refers to Susan as his “first sober wife.” The first two literally never happened to him. An interesting personality quirk that he gets away with because after all -who cares about Duff?

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9 hours ago, History2010 said:

I was actually reading an article about Axl's domestic abuse stuff earlier today and it got me thinking. I wasn't familiar with this story about Michelle until now and I am very interested in hearing more details about it. 

 

These situations sound horrific and paint Axl as a real monster. I know Raz isn't relevant in the slightest, and this letter is so clearly politically motivated, but if this letter hits the mainstream then this could be really bad for Axl.

This stuff would be career-ending for most other artists. I only hope that Axl really has changed and is no longer like this to people. We know him as a very intelligent and sensitive man, but it is certain that his childhood environment did severe damage to him. 

Sigh. 

There nothing in that, that isn't already common knowledge and readily available. I think it's past the time that people care about these stories, as he never got charged with anything. I remember reading a little bit about this a year or two ago on some gnr article, and it didn't stir up attention, so I don't think editors ate going to jump on it. Also Duff and GNR will never respond so that douses the story with cold water.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nice Boy said:

Lyrics wise, the line in It's So Easy doesn't cause me much alarm, I take it as moody but not actually endorsing non-consensual sexual assault (unlike 'grab em by the pussy,) I do think the lyrics to Attitude are off though, they literally mention physical assault on a woman, so I do think it's weird Duff still sings that. I guess he doesn't make the connection, doesn't see them as literal. Admittedly there may be holes in his moral position but overall I think it's good he is showing more maturity. 

The lyrics to OIAM caused me most bother, they turned me off the band someehat when I heard them, and reconsidered my fan status. It was only really with the advent of the Internet (including great sites like yours) that I was able to form a better backstory to OIAM and see more of a rationale for it. I did always suspect Axl was not an 'ideological racist' as that didn't fit with the wider picture of him.

Attitude is a song by Misfits, Duff sings on it cause he loves the Misfits more than anyone else in the band, not because the lyrics somehow fit him in a twisted way.. Misfits also have lyrics like: "I got something to say, I killed a baby today / And it doesn't matter much to me as long as it's dead / Well I got something to say, I raped your mother today / And it doesn't matter much to me as long as she's spread", this doesn't mean they went out and killed babies and raped mothers.. It's a Horror-Punk image, it's supposed to be shocking and gory, because it all fits a running theme. 

Attitude is a song with just that, Attitude. It's a song by a horror punk band, not something written with ink in our history books.

And it's not like they covered a song with bad intent either. It's just music, enjoy it for what it is.

Edited by Shackler's
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Wait..... :o

So that random girl from the rape abuse charges stories has a name now and it is Michelle?
How did that happen? :question:

I'm surprised by this letter..... feels like something else is going on behind the scenes....

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

And they were my idols in my adolescence.. \m/

Me too but I was a teen and I didn't know any of this... I got into them because of the music, obviously. It was much much later that I learned about these things but actually, everything that I read about it had a special narrative, like an anecdotic experience, almost like it never happened.....:shrugs:

Fortunately, I have emotionally detached from this band a couple of years ago.
I now see them for what they are and for what they were.... pieces of shit.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Sosso said:

 

So, what he is saying is that he knew all those things and said or did nothing about it?

Well, what a "good guy" he is for comming up 34 years later and trying to stir shit up!

Is that the truth? I don't know, maybe, and I'm sad that the band that I love may have those things in its past! But if you knew it all along and did nothing about it you're are just morally corrupt as the perpetrator himself.

Guilty by association, right? And by the way, OIAM is a more controversial song than UTLH or ISE or LCMTV.

He got pissy because Duff took a shot at the MAGA movement and Trump and, man, now he can be accused of hiding a crime for the sake of his future Rock icon friends.

"Gonna call the President, Gonna call up the Private Eye, Gonna get the I.R.S., Gonna need the F.B.I."

Way to go, Raz, way to go!

 

Edited by Legendador
Mispelling
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8 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Wait..... :o

So that random girl from the rape abuse charges stories has a name now and it is Michelle?
How did that happen? :question:

I'm surprised by this letter..... feels like something else is going on behind the scenes....

Me too but I was a teen and I didn't know any of this... I got into them because of the music, obviously. It was much much later that I learned about these things but actually, everything that I read about it had a special narrative, like an anecdotic experience, almost like it never happened.....:shrugs:

Fortunately, I have emotionally detached from this band a couple of years ago.
I now see them for what they are and for what they were.... pieces of shit.

That ain't true, otherwise you wouldn't be here. 

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Just now, Legendador said:

So, what he is saying is that he knew all those things and said or did nothing about it?

Well, what a "good guy" he is for comming up 34 years later and trying to stir shit up!

Is that the truth? I don't know, maybe, and I sad that the band that I love may have those things in its past! But if you knew it all along and did nothing about it you're are just morally corrupt as the perpetrator himself.

Guilty by association, right? And by the way, OIAM is a more controversial song than UTLH or ISE or LCMTV.

He got pissy because Duff took a shot at the MAGA movement and Trump and, man, now he can be accused of hiding a crime for the sake of his future Rock icon friends.

"Gonna call the President, Gonna call up the Private Eye, Gonna get the I.R.S., Gonna need the F.B.I."

Way to go, Raz, way to go!

Well, the crime was never "hidden".... there has been numerous reports in the press about what happened. The thing is no one paid attention to it, in part because the narrative used was that of an anecdote... like even Axl and Slash talked about it and they described the sexual act as consented, plus we never heard the girl's side of the story.

Just now, Tom2112 said:

That ain't true, otherwise you wouldn't be here. 

What exactly isn't true? :question:

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8 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

That ain't true, otherwise you wouldn't be here. 

TBF im not listening to GNR anymore either but i stick around because i like the forum.

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5 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

TBF im not listening to GNR anymore either but i stick around because i like the forum.

Despite your protest GN'R will still be making millions. Cha-Ching! :lol:

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Posted (edited)

When I get to 20 posts, I have to quit here, lol, and just enjoy the music of AFD,UYIs. I am going to a mid  life crisis.:wow:  lol.

The story of the 15 year old groupie .

Cue, Axl, Slash, Duff, Cue of their first manager’s,  photgrapher Mick Wall, Behind The Music, What Broke the Band Show, and ever other internet source, ONE THING IS FACT. A 15 year old groupie without her clothes  was running in the street. Fact- the law was after Axl.

Facts for the rest of my post.....

This was not pretty.

Things GnR guys dd to themselves, things others  ( the girls and guys ) did to themselves was not pretty. It is just a miracle Izzy in his coma survived. It is a miracle Duff with his ruptured pancreas or spleen whatever, survived. It is a miracle splint or pacemaker Slash did not drop of a heart attack  and we are talking recent here, 2000 something. It is a miracle Steven never od’d to death or was successful in suicide. Axl seemed to never have been to the point of death, literally death, but it is a miracle he never had to be put on 5150 hold ( Britney, Kayne). Between The Crue in the day and  GnR in the day , these were the wildest , dangerously living bands.

No it was not funny then and is not funny now.

No , not all of their fans or young people then in the day lived  like that. I am GnR age group 55, loved the music, was in college at my state university, working, etc. Hardly unique.  I can speak for many of you as well. 

Which brings me to that was then. No such thing as cell phones , internet , GPS, technology as every man, woman, child, dog / cat has today ( microchip ) . Today, let’s say they were in their early, mid20s today and the life they lived then was now. Lol, Instant pics and everything on line. The whole 15 year old incident would have been recorded on their own cell phones plus everybody on the street watching the running girl plus L.A. paparazzi and more.

wait. I am not now saying it was ok back then or is now, but it was what it was then.  The hell house stuff, robbing the girls, yuck. 

Different times. All parties  involved  with them were mutually and consensually ok with everything.

Today with the hip hop groups and ballers, it is “ a lot” sexually and there have been charges for arrest, lawsuits, etc. Some true and some  bogus because it is all consensual. Legal. Nasty, lol, but hey, we have choice. I lke choice. I am female , women’s rights, the whole thing, but I support FACTS AND CHOICE. I do support the Hollyweird in style, in fashion,# Me Too bandwagon which was highjacked from a Black American woman who started this for totally different and legit and real reasons. Pluze donot don’t get me started about Hollyweird Hypocritcal Liberals.

Lets be real.:smiley-confused2:

So this leads to Duff. He needs to STFU . He looks Hollyweird Hyporcitcal Libearl. He looks silly.  Instead of trying to make right  things of 35 years, which were not necessarily wrong, but yes of a seedy lifestyle, just say nothing.

I do it want bring in or go to politics because it never goes well. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Axl, despite what he may have said,  I would not be surprised if they are all ProTrump voting and Republican donating and voting for other Republican in their communities

Lets be real..

I get he is 25 years or happily married, must be a man of morals for his young adult daughters, etc. He is. 100% stand up guy, pillar of the community.  

He needs to not try to distance himself or explain those years which was the start of his millions. 

It would be pitiful acting , trying to act 25 years old acting like it is 1986. I get Duff, Slash, Axl are out get as many TENS  of MILLIONS , and there IS nothing Wrong With THAT. maybe with each man  topping off a $100 million pay or more after their tour ends in 2020, 2021. This tour is reported to make hundreds of millions and break the record for most money, longest, whatever. If people are buying what they are selling, ok. My money is NOT going to The  A-D-S hobby, lol. Duff cannot rewrite their hit albums and antics too  of then. Yes, of course, that of then of 25 year old him is not him of now of a middle aged man, AARP member  Father and Husband of the Year or Axl of Malibu , a pillar of his community,  or  the very quiet living Slash  of Beverly Hills.  Guess what. My days of  acting 25 ended ended at 25, about 30-35 years ago. I can speak for you older GnR fans too. 

Edited by Latx

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