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Axl's Agony Aunt

British Liberal Media's Multicultural Fascism Exposed

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30 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Neither of which are in the least bit rebelling against the establishment.  The Stones ain’t been anti-establishment since the 60s and Stormzy is a joke.

I guess you have to be really offensive to qualify under your requirements, like the anarcho  band banned from Glastonbury for calling for the murder of Tories etc, which means almost certain obscurity. 

Crass were about the most 'successful' anarcho band I remember; or Anti-Nowhere League? Hawkwind too commercial?

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17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

What do you feel caused the Brixton riots?

Off the top of my head, remembering back, a mixture of race relations anger (police etc) and poverty.

I'm not saying it's always immigrants/black people's fault, I'm just saying it's almost inevitable when you have big amounts of immigration; especially if they're leaving war zones (Somalia etc), not being 'integrated' and housed in places which are practically war zones themselves. 

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2 minutes ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

I guess you have to be really offensive to qualify under your requirements, like the anarcho  band banned from Glastonbury for calling for the murder of Tories etc, which means almost certain obscurity. 

Crass were about the most 'successful' anarcho band I remember; or Anti-Nowhere League? Hawkwind too commercial?

I'm not sure that offensive is a requirement necessarily.  Anti establishment means something that challenges or attacks the established order, how did GnR in any way do that?  They were pretty run of the mill in that regard, musically pretty straightforward rock band fare, nothing that hadn't been done for the last quarter of a century previous, they didn't profess any particularly challenging ideas or beliefs, they were pretty apolitical, I don't see how anyone sitting in their positions of power were looking at GnR as anything more than just the new thing.

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The only anti-establishment person in the history of rock-pop was GG Allin. He died without selling out. He is the only one who took the punk rock ethic to its logical conclusion. All the rest sold out, and were probably only ever in it for the cash. 

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6 minutes ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

Off the top of my head, remembering back, a mixture of race relations anger (police etc) and poverty.

I'm not saying it's always immigrants/black people's fault, I'm just saying it's almost inevitable when you have big amounts of immigration; especially if they're leaving war zones (Somalia etc), not being 'integrated' and housed in places which are practically war zones themselves. 

They were Jamaicans though, Carribean in general.  And it was hardly mass immigration from that generation.  And the ones doing the riots weren't the ones coming over on the boats, it was their kids.  It boils down to pour housing and social oppertunities really doesn't it?  And had it not been for black immigration it would've been white working classes living there, d'ya reckon they'd've been in any better a social predicament?  I'm not sure they would, I mean you only need to take a look at housing in London pre-immigration to illustrate that.

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The only anti-establishment person in the history of rock-pop was GG Allin. He died without selling out. He is the only one who took the punk rock ethic to its logical conclusion. All the rest sold out, and were probably only ever in it for the cash. 

See, THIS is what you call a hardliner :lol: 

Edited by Len Cnut

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33 minutes ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

I'm against Britain becoming an Islamist slavery state

I'm against xenophobic hysteria.

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7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

They were Jamaicans though, Carribean in general.  And it was hardly mass immigration from that generation.  And the ones doing the riots weren't the ones coming over on the boats, it was their kids.  It boils down to pour housing and social oppertunities really doesn't it?  And had it not been for black immigration it would've been white working classes living there, d'ya reckon they'd've been in any better a social predicament?  I'm not sure they would, I mean you only need to take a look at housing in London pre-immigration to illustrate that.

See, THIS is what you call a hardliner :lol: 

Presley could have been rolling around in his own poo, but what we got was Blue Hawaii  instead. 

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19 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm not sure that offensive is a requirement necessarily.  Anti establishment means something that challenges or attacks the established order, how did GnR in any way do that?  They were pretty run of the mill in that regard, musically pretty straightforward rock band fare, nothing that hadn't been done for the last quarter of a century previous, they didn't profess any particularly challenging ideas or beliefs, they were pretty apolitical, I don't see how anyone sitting in their positions of power were looking at GnR as anything more than just the new thing.

There's different ways and levels. Axl was getting shit for years off the establishment for the way he acted, some of his lyrics, behaviour, using Manson song etc.

They were called The Most Dangerous Band in the World at their peak; but as you say, there were many more who were more obscure. 

Grunge came on the scene and called bands like Guns the music establishment, deflating the Guns revolutionary bubble - Sorum said Axl wanted to recruit an army in Guatemala!

If they'd all died at their peak they'd have been rebel martyrs to this day!!

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There's different ways and levels. Axl was getting shit for years off the establishment for the way he acted, some of his lyrics, behaviour, using Manson song etc.

Pretty paltry really, isn't it?  Miley Cyrus has gotten that.

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They were called The Most Dangerous Band in the World at their peak

Its called marketing.

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Grunge came on the scene and called bands like Guns the music establishment, deflating the Guns revolutionary bubble - Sorum said Axl wanted to recruit an army in Guatemala!

A lot of the music that influenced some of the key players in grunge, now THAT was anti establishment but grunge itself was little more than a marketing exercise selling you an idea about long haired blokes in flannel shirts and ripped jeans playing what was essentially metal influenced rock.  Don't get me wrong, its not that I think you can't be signed to a major and be anti-establishment its just few bands have ever done so.  The Clash perhaps, though some people will argue me into the ground over that one, The Sex Pistols in their first incarnation, Black Flag, now there's a great example, they basically got followed around the gaff getting shut down by cops. 

THATS what anti-establishment is to me, when you do something or represent something that unsettles to the point where they try to shut you down.  Pussy Riot, now there's a good example. 

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6 minutes ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

Rabbit, rabbit, rabbit:

Maybe that's what caused the Brixton riots!

You trying to say that rabbits are gonna establish a slave state in my apartment then? 

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Quite a good doc on Vivienne Westwood last week, with her son calling her 'the only punk'; so subjective really as you say. Lots of people said real punks weren't the ones with mohicans etc, as you say about grunge before and after sub-pop marketing. 

She was apparently ignored by the 'fashion establishment' for as long as possible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0009v35/westwood-punk-icon-activist

2 minutes ago, soon said:

You trying to say that rabbits are gonna establish a slave state in my apartment then? 

Only the white ones!

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Rock music has an uneasy relationship with rebelliousness being that the industry resides on an industry that is unbelievably corporate, and (now at least) has the potential to construct millionaires from yesterday's punks. It exposes a hypocrisy. 

What is that saying, ''the Pistols sold-out the day they signed a record contract?''

There is some truth in that.

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1 minute ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

Quite a good doc on Vivienne Westwood last week, with her son calling her 'the only punk'; so subjective really as you say. Lots of people said real punks weren't the ones with mohicans etc, as you say about grunge before and after sub-pop marketing. 

She was apparently ignored by the 'fashion establishment' for as long as possible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0009v35/westwood-punk-icon-activist

She's an establishment darling really though, isn't she?  Now Malcolm, there's anti-establishment.  I mean he was an absolute charlatan and a waffler but at the same time you can't fault his anti-establishment credentials, always there, always on the fringe of things, agitating, prodding.  From The Sex Pistols to his hilairious bid for London Mayor (legalising prostitution and drugs and all that crazy shit), Malcolm was a true subversive. 

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rock music has an uneasy relationship with rebelliousness being that the industry resides on an industry that is unbelievably corporate, and (now at least) has the potential to construct millionaires from yesterday's punks. It exposes a hypocrisy. 

What is that saying, ''the Pistols sold-out the day they signed a record contract?''

There is some truth in that.

That saying was said about The Clash, not The Pistols.  The Pistols signed to a record label and got promptly fired from it...then again with another label.  They only managed to get signed to the burgeoning Virgin label because it was a nothing label whoose only previous success had been Mike Oldfields Tubular Bells.  Run by a bloke who John said 'looks like catweazel' :lol:

Edited by Len Cnut

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4 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

don't get me wrong, its not that I think you can't be signed to a major and be anti-establishment its just few bands have ever done so. THATS what anti-establishment is to me, when you do something or represent something that unsettles to the point where they try to shut you down. 

How would you rate NOFX? They've always been anti-establishment to a certain degree.

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2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

How would you rate NOFX? They've always been anti-establishment to a certain degree.

How would I rate them as in do I like em or how would I rate their anti-establishment credentials?  Well, the answers the same with both, not very highly.  Not a big fan of NOFX, Bad Religion, Green Day, it was just really...lightweight to me.  If, by the 90s, you're still dying your hair and doing the sped up riffs and the spitting thing you're sort of a copyist of a 20 year old thing, it just comes off a bit lame.

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

How would I rate them as in do I like em or how would I rate their anti-establishment credentials?  Well, the answers the same with both, not very highly.  Not a big fan of NOFX, Bad Religion, Green Day, it was just really...lightweight to me.  If, by the 90s, you're still dying your hair and doing the sped up riffs and the spitting thing you're sort of a copyist of a 20 year old thing, it just comes off a bit lame.

Yeah, I meant as anti-establishment. They never signed to a major label and toured countries and cities most (big) bands never go to because it's too dangerous or there's no money to be made. 

I personally don't think it's lame, I mean, they're just doing and playing the type of music they want without caring what anyone thinks about it. 

I'm currently in a band that is playing mostly 60's and 70's hardrock music, that is probably totally lame to you... ha!

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This rock n roller was pretty anti-establishment.

Gerry Hannah (aka Gerry Useless) was a member of the guerrilla insurrectionary group Direct Action. He served 5 of 10 for attempted robbery of an armoured money truck. He wrote this track for the band he was in, The Subhumans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hannah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

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Yeah, I meant as anti-establishment. They never signed to a major label and toured countries and cities most (big) bands never go to because it's too dangerous or there's no money to be made.

I respect that part, I just meant the overall thing, the 'punk' aspect.  What you've described here, though a perfectly valid stance if you choose to take it, is more like willfully ghettoizing yourself, if that makes sense.  Carving out a little compartment in the culture and occupying it.  And hey, why not but I always felt the idea behind anti-establishment shit was to stir shit up.

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I personally don't think it's lame, I mean, they're just doing and playing the type of music they want without caring what anyone thinks about it. 

You can do that anyway without attaching yourself to something that, really and truly, you don't have anything to do with.  There's something dishonest about it.

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I'm currently in a band that is playing mostly 60's and 70's hardrock music, that is probably totally lame to you... ha!

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing music you like.  I just don't understand why you have to attach yourself to a long defunct movement that you really don't haver anything to do with.  See, a lot of people went through a lot of shit to wear that particular hat, earned their stripes and that.  It belongs to them I say but then who am I?

6 minutes ago, soon said:

This rock n roller was pretty anti-establishment.

Gerry Hannah (aka Gerry Useless) was a member of the guerrilla insurrectionary group Direct Action. He served 5 of 10 for attempted robbery of an armoured money truck. He wrote this track for the band he was in, The Subhumans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hannah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squamish_Five

I LOVE The Subhumans, see, THATS anti-establishment!  Someone on this forum put me onto them actually, @Zint, God bless his soul, wherever it may wander.

Edited by Len Cnut
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5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I respect that part, I just meant the overall thing, the 'punk' aspect.  What you've described here, though a perfectly valid stance if you choose to take it, is more like willfully ghettoizing yourself, if that makes sense.  Carving out a little compartment in the culture and occupying it.  And hey, why not but I always felt the idea behind anti-establishment shit was to stir shit out.

You can do that anyway without attaching yourself to something that, really and truly, you don't have anything to do with.  There's something dishonest about it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing music you like.  I just don't understand why you have to attach yourself to a long defunct movement that you really don't haver anything to do with.  See, a lot of people went through a lot of shit to wear that particular hat, earned their stripes and that.  It belongs to them I say but then who am I?

I think I get what you're saying, but to me, at least regarding a band like NOFX, they're just really into punk music and they like the style of it (whatever that is), I don't see what's wrong with that. It's a very personal thing to them, Fat Mike released a personal solo record this year and he refers to punk in most songs, even though the record isn't really punk at all. Like this song, 

 

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Sorry to disturb the nice punk debate, TISM another candidate for anti-establishmentism by the way, but couple of cases of 'POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD' I've seen today:

Sheffield Uni bans sombreros, as could be seen as racist: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/sheffield-students-union-bans-sombreros-20784140

Bideford changes sign from 150-year-old moniker 'Little White Town' after few complaints, despite majority of town voting to keep it: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/bideford-in-devon-changes-little-white-town-signposts-after-racist-claims/ar-AAJGAsf?ocid=spartanntp

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Like, sombreros are banned on that tiny slice of Sheffield even on Taco Tuesday? Fucking fascists! :angry::jerkoff::lol:

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1 hour ago, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

Sorry to disturb the nice punk debate, TISM another candidate for anti-establishmentism by the way, but couple of cases of 'POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD' I've seen today:

Sheffield Uni bans sombreros, as could be seen as racist: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/sheffield-students-union-bans-sombreros-20784140

Bideford changes sign from 150-year-old moniker 'Little White Town' after few complaints, despite majority of town voting to keep it: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/bideford-in-devon-changes-little-white-town-signposts-after-racist-claims/ar-AAJGAsf?ocid=spartanntp

Also a snowflake was on Jeremy Vine arguing that students shouldn't learn about the second world war in history because it might cause emotional-mental difficulties. And an Oxford college have banned clapping, the customary clapping following a lecture, replacing it with jazz hands (I'm not actually making this up!). This is in case clapping triggers anxiety.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7638687/Instagram-influencer-22-claims-learning-World-War-Two-hit-millennials-MENTAL-HEALTH.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10202049/oxford-uni-students-ban-clapping/

Edited by DieselDaisy
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This thread should be sponsored by the Daily Mail. 

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