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Is GNR the most underrated band ever?

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3 hours ago, AncientEvil80 said:

That's why I said 1986 till mid-1988... they weren't selling much back then, if at all, hahah :lol:

Ironically, that's what I label the Best Period and Artistic Peak of the Band (Fall of 1987 being the absolute apex, see Ritz 1987). And that's why it's underrated.

AFD hit #1 in 1988, so that's why I was confused. 

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Posted (edited)

 

20 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I think sense of humour has a lot to do with it.  The Red Hot Chili Peppers were from the same area as GnR but the reason The Chilis (back then especially) were so cool in the sense of being contemporary whereas Guns weren't is because Guns took themselves very seriously.  Look at any picture of Guns from back in the day, they are very much posing and very like...y'know, trying to come across as cool, which they were to be fair, to me anyway...but that sort of seriousness about that stuff had very much been punctured long ago. 

I wonder if they stuck around if they could have wrenched back the "coolness" by really leaning into the excess, actually leveraged the cartoon aspect as a strength and had some songs to back it up ala The Darkness. That's not the version of GNR I would have liked necessarily but... like an amplified UYI GNR... Axl full Elton John.... dolphin animatronics... massive tongue in cheek stadium shows, haha.... After like '95 when everyone was sick of Unplugged albums and flannels. 

Edited by Ant

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10 hours ago, Ant said:

 

I wonder if they stuck around if they could have wrenched back the "coolness" by really leaning into the excess, actually leveraged the cartoon aspect as a strength and had some songs to back it up ala The Darkness. That's not the version of GNR I would have liked necessarily but... like an amplified UYI GNR... Axl full Elton John.... dolphin animatronics... massive tongue in cheek stadium shows, haha.... After like '95 when everyone was sick of Unplugged albums and flannels. 

Heilung have shown the way:

 

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17 hours ago, Ant said:

 

I wonder if they stuck around if they could have wrenched back the "coolness" by really leaning into the excess, actually leveraged the cartoon aspect as a strength and had some songs to back it up ala The Darkness. That's not the version of GNR I would have liked necessarily but... like an amplified UYI GNR... Axl full Elton John.... dolphin animatronics... massive tongue in cheek stadium shows, haha.... After like '95 when everyone was sick of Unplugged albums and flannels. 

Had GNR's Illusions lineup stuck around in the 90s and continued to evolve, or had GNR's new lineup released Chinese Democracy in the late '90s, I really do think they would continued to been huge and not fallen the way of other bands from that era (Motley Crue and Poison and Warrant and Skid Row). GNR's sound transcended that genre, especially with the direction of UYI.

Motley Crue was still releasing stuff in the '90s but they were more famous at that point due to Tommy Lee's marriage to Pam. Maybe the mainstream media and fans wouldn't have accepted a GNR without Slash only a few years removed from the Illusions tours. But when other big bands at the time were such garbage like Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock, Linkin Park, etc, there was a place for GNR to rule the roost.

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On 7/4/2019 at 1:51 PM, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

They went from being unknowns outside of Los Angeles in early 1987, to the biggest band in America by the summer of 1988. By the time the 'Illusion' records came to light, they were the biggest band in the world. It was the push by MTV and radio for grunge/alternative, as well as GN'R's own internal destruction, that caused them to lose that title.

The only time I would have considered Guns N' Roses underrated was after the release of AFD, and the nearly yearlong climb to superstardom. The album was just way too good to be ignored.

 

But it very easily could have been ignored. Many people at the record label were ready to give up on it and I think a lot of the guys in the band did not expect it to become a huge thing either. Tom Zutaut fought pretty hard on their behalf to keep the label promoting Appetite instead of giving up and moving on to a second album. 

As far as the question of this thread, I don't think we can call them underrated. Seems like they have a lot of respect, especially compared to other bands from the 1980's Sunset Strip. I think a lot of people realize they had special talent. They put together a great 5 year run, but did not live up to their potential. Sometimes the very bright stars burn out pretty quick. That seems to be the case with GN'R. 

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On 7/2/2019 at 9:07 PM, Powderfinger said:

Arguably the best run of albums any band has put out. And pretty much every track is killer. 

(I might have left out Aftermath though)

but I see why it’s in there. 

The MC5 get fuck all Love.

For me, I think the best run of albums is Love it to Death, Killer, School’s Out, Billion Dollar Babies.  The band, Alice Cooper, released those 4 insanely good albums in 3 years.  

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Before this latest tour I'd have said yes but not anymore. When you can come back after all these years and put together the second highest grossing tour of all time? You're appropriately rated.

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On 7/2/2019 at 4:44 PM, KeyserSoze said:

nope. Pearl Jam are far and away more Under rated. 

While I agree that GnR isn't underrated, I actually think Pear Jam is one of the most overrated bands of all time.  The buzz about them, especially back in the day was really intense.  I never got it.  Between everything they ever did being so slow and grinding, to Eddie Vedder's goat boy warble, to everyone fawning over Last Kiss not knowing it was a cover... I've never disliked an "iconic" band more than Pear Jam.  I was so happy when they just fucking faded away. 

 

Back OT, I'm an absolute mark for GnR.  They are, far and away my favorite band of all time.  Even through the (my) perspective of seeing them as the GOAT, I don't see any kind of argument that their place in history is disrespected, or that their impact/legacy is underrated.

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51 minutes ago, DeadSlash said:

While I agree that GnR isn't underrated, I actually think Pear Jam is one of the most overrated bands of all time.  The buzz about them, especially back in the day was really intense.  I never got it.  Between everything they ever did being so slow and grinding, to Eddie Vedder's goat boy warble, to everyone fawning over Last Kiss not knowing it was a cover... I've never disliked an "iconic" band more than Pear Jam.  I was so happy when they just fucking faded away. 

 

Back OT, I'm an absolute mark for GnR.  They are, far and away my favorite band of all time.  Even through the (my) perspective of seeing them as the GOAT, I don't see any kind of argument that their place in history is disrespected, or that their impact/legacy is underrated.

"Just faded away" 

here is a picture of their last show in 2018 @ Fenway 

5e50c9_7b9c51aa632943b6baa39fb422a481ac~

sooooo not sure what you mean by that 

 

all of the dislikes you listed seem to be the "unpopular" popular opinion of the band.

They deserved all the buzz they got. Their debut album was a fucking banger and each song on that debut was a hit, they followed it up with the best sophomore album of all time, they toured their ASS off and played some of the most insane live shows of the time, and STILL went up against Ticketmaster when no one had the balls to do so.

Slow and "grinding"? Get passed the hits: 

 

"goat boy warble?" not every mans voice is high pitched and "girl screechy" like Axl Roses. Hell, Axl Roses voice isn't even like that anymore. People always pull this bullshit card. It's a matter of opinion and what you like. Obviously you don't like a man's voice to sound like a man's voice when he sings. So for some reason you have to degrade it and call it a goat warble when in my head i have no idea how you made that comparison because it sounds nothing like a goat. 

your description of everyone "fawning" over Last Kiss is dumb and totally discredits everything they were doing musically during that time period. 2 albums and a cover in 3 years at the end of the 90's. What was Axl doing again??? So what if people liked it over the original. God forbid we got a Knockin on Heavens Door, or Live and Let Die out of them for fucks sake.... 

I've never disliked people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about more... 

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Posted (edited)

It depends on the larger question at hand. Are GnR underrated in terms of what? Do people consider them a great rock band? Yes. Do people consider them amongst the greatest rock bands? I believe so. Do people consider them great artist in general? Perhaps. Finally, are they considered the greatest rock band? I don’t believe most people would consider them that.

Now, personally, I would consider them underrated because they are the greatest rock band. I would go as far as to proclaim them the greatest artist in rock music. I’m not of the variety to cling on the, “they could’ve been…” or “they only made a couple of records,” because what they made is great. Quality trumps quantity, always. I will gladly take AFD, Lies, and the Illusions albums over any Stones record. This idea that GnR only had so many records is always brought up meanwhile acts such as Jimi Hendrix, Nirvana, Cream, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Sex Pistols, Led Zeppelin, etc., never get called out on it. Yet, these artists have less work than GnR, if not, they’re in the same ballpark.

The way I see it is the bands and artist most critics consider “the greatest…” tends to be discussed from a certain time frame. Take the Rolling Stones, the discussion around them tends to focus on ’64 to ’72 (and even that is a stretch, but for the sake of my argument I’ll go with it). Now consider that they released a good amount of albums in the 70s and became irrelevant in the 80s. What does that say about the proclaimed greatest rock band of all time? Same with Zeppelin, which by many was uncool in the 80s.  

Point being you only discuss great artist when they’re great and that tends to be a handful of albums at most. Some have more, yet when it’s truly great they are in the discussion the none the less.

Edited by MoreLies
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7 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

"Just faded away" 

here is a picture of their last show in 2018 @ Fenway 

5e50c9_7b9c51aa632943b6baa39fb422a481ac~

sooooo not sure what you mean by that 

 

all of the dislikes you listed seem to be the "unpopular" popular opinion of the band.

They deserved all the buzz they got. Their debut album was a fucking banger and each song on that debut was a hit, they followed it up with the best sophomore album of all time, they toured their ASS off and played some of the most insane live shows of the time, and STILL went up against Ticketmaster when no one had the balls to do so.

Slow and "grinding"? Get passed the hits: 

 

"goat boy warble?" not every mans voice is high pitched and "girl screechy" like Axl Roses. Hell, Axl Roses voice isn't even like that anymore. People always pull this bullshit card. It's a matter of opinion and what you like. Obviously you don't like a man's voice to sound like a man's voice when he sings. So for some reason you have to degrade it and call it a goat warble when in my head i have no idea how you made that comparison because it sounds nothing like a goat. 

your description of everyone "fawning" over Last Kiss is dumb and totally discredits everything they were doing musically during that time period. 2 albums and a cover in 3 years at the end of the 90's. What was Axl doing again??? So what if people liked it over the original. God forbid we got a Knockin on Heavens Door, or Live and Let Die out of them for fucks sake.... 

I've never disliked people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about more... 

Couldn't agree more with everything you said praising Pearl Jam. 

They're still enormous. They haven't "faded away" in any form of the concept. 

For the record, while their first 3 records get all the praise, I think their true masterpiece is their fifth album Yield. 

I'd encourage anyone who thinks of them as any sort of one trick pony to check that record out asap. 

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On 07/07/2019 at 8:34 AM, Ant said:

 

I wonder if they stuck around if they could have wrenched back the "coolness" by really leaning into the excess, actually leveraged the cartoon aspect as a strength and had some songs to back it up ala The Darkness. That's not the version of GNR I would have liked necessarily but... like an amplified UYI GNR... Axl full Elton John.... dolphin animatronics... massive tongue in cheek stadium shows, haha.... After like '95 when everyone was sick of Unplugged albums and flannels. 

I remember reading an interview around 96 with slash before he officially left. He wanted a back to basics approach  kind of like appetite. 

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Pearl Jam is a great band and Eddie is an incredible singer and artist. Come on, how can anyone who likes rock music dislike Vs or Yield? 

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9 hours ago, MoreLies said:

 

Now, personally, I would consider them underrated because they are the greatest rock band. I would go as far as to proclaim them the greatest artist in rock music. I’m not of the variety to cling on the, “they could’ve been…” or “they only made a couple of records,” because what they made is great. Quality trumps quantity, always. I will gladly take AFD, Lies, and the Illusions albums over any Stones record. This idea that GnR only had so many records is always brought up meanwhile acts such as Jimi Hendrix, Nirvana, Cream, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Sex Pistols, Led Zeppelin, etc., never get called out on it. Yet, these artists have less work than GnR, if not, they’re in the same ballpark.

 

What they made is great, yes. But to say all of their work is better than any Stones record is kinda ridicilous. You either haven't listened to much of Stones music or they aren't your cup of tea. 

What's also kinda wrong is you comparing Gn'R to those names (Hendrix,Nirvana,Skynyrd,Zeppelin... ), bands who'd lost their /key/ members early on(they died, you know)  and have since either split, are gone, tried to or made some sort of comebacks. Gn'R was still here, whether you like all the line-up changes or not( I personally love CD ). 

Imho, just a very bad band comparison right there. 

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6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Couldn't agree more with everything you said praising Pearl Jam. 

They're still enormous. They haven't "faded away" in any form of the concept. 

This is why I think they are so under rated.

They seem to have done a good job of having a huge pocket of fans in at least every state that are willing to travel to see them every year. Other than that, the “casual” music fan thinks their career died when Kurt Cobain died. Which is completely untrue. I feel like those same people are the ones that complain that theres only been one original album of GNR content in 25 years. Pearl Jam have produced 5 in this DECADE with the same lineup... 

6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

For the record, while their first 3 records get all the praise, I think their true masterpiece is their fifth album Yield. 

I'd encourage anyone who thinks of them as any sort of one trick pony to check that record out asap. 

 

4 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Pearl Jam is a great band and Eddie is an incredible singer and artist. Come on, how can anyone who likes rock music dislike Vs or Yield? 

I’d take you one further and tell you to listen to their 4th and 5th albums ‘No Code’ and ‘Yield’ back to back on an intense mushroom trip. Not because you need to be inebriated to enjoy the music, but because that is Pearl Jam at their most tribal. And you can hear it, and feel it in the music. Jack Irons really brought that spirit out of them.  

I know everyone gives Eddie all the praise (or discredit.. depending on how you look at things) but Stone Gossard, the rhythm guitarist, is one of the most under rated song writers of that decade. Of the 11 songs on ‘Ten’, Gossard wrote or co-wrote 8. With main credits on “Alive”, “Even Flow” and “Black.” Yes. The man himself wrote all of those hits by himself. 

Mike McCready is also probably one of the most under rated lead guitarists of that era as well. I feel like many people don’t even know his name! While many guitarists of that day were taking a page out of Aerosmith or Led Zepp’s book, Mike was taking SRV’s licks (Yellow Ledbetter duh)    and making them grunge. He could WAIL on the guitar. Case in point (start around 2:38):

 

 

You also had Jeff Ament experimenting with different basses and bass sounds. Fretless (Oceans, Alive, Even Flow), 12-string (Jeremy, Deep) and even Upright Bass. (Daughter, Dissident) Not many bands were being THAT creative or going out on a limb to do things like that yet, as far as new bands are concerned. 

As far as music passed that golden era of PJ is concerned, we’ve already talked about Yield. For those of you that would like to sig deeper, I suggest this lil nugget from their 6th album, Binaural:

 

This is a slower one, so your boy DeadSlash might take offense to it, but you can see how mature the band became from the first video to this one. They almost broke up in the late 90’s, then came back with an interesting album that completely wreaks of growing up. This was the onset of Eddies “favorite” president Bush being elected. So many of the songs started to become politically charged. But you also had a lot of songs talking about how the band dealt with human emotions, as by that time they had run the gamut of highs and lows etc. This particular song, as Ed mentions in the intro in the video, revolves around the topic of saying goodbye to a friend, or not being able to say goodbye. 

“With heavy breath, awakened regrets
Back pages and days alone that could have been spent, together
But we were miles apart
Every inch between us becomes light years now
No time to be void or save up on life
You got to spend it all”

Amazing song writing and lyrics. 

Again, what was Axl doing during this period? 

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6 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Pearl Jam is a great band and Eddie is an incredible singer and artist. Come on, how can anyone who likes rock music dislike Vs or Yield? 

I just wanted to say again that Yield is a freaking masterpiece. 

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19 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

"Just faded away" 

here is a picture of their last show in 2018 @ Fenway 

5e50c9_7b9c51aa632943b6baa39fb422a481ac~

sooooo not sure what you mean by that 

 

all of the dislikes you listed seem to be the "unpopular" popular opinion of the band.

They deserved all the buzz they got. Their debut album was a fucking banger and each song on that debut was a hit, they followed it up with the best sophomore album of all time, they toured their ASS off and played some of the most insane live shows of the time, and STILL went up against Ticketmaster when no one had the balls to do so.

Slow and "grinding"? Get passed the hits: 

 

"goat boy warble?" not every mans voice is high pitched and "girl screechy" like Axl Roses. Hell, Axl Roses voice isn't even like that anymore. People always pull this bullshit card. It's a matter of opinion and what you like. Obviously you don't like a man's voice to sound like a man's voice when he sings. So for some reason you have to degrade it and call it a goat warble when in my head i have no idea how you made that comparison because it sounds nothing like a goat. 

your description of everyone "fawning" over Last Kiss is dumb and totally discredits everything they were doing musically during that time period. 2 albums and a cover in 3 years at the end of the 90's. What was Axl doing again??? So what if people liked it over the original. God forbid we got a Knockin on Heavens Door, or Live and Let Die out of them for fucks sake.... 

I've never disliked people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about more... 

Wow, that was uncalled for venom.  Here's your change: I've never disliked sheeple who ride in like a white knight to defend the honor of an MTV darling band more....  Clearly you are new to their bandwagon, or weren't alive when Last Kiss came out, if you were, you would be well aware that the buzz about that song isn't overblown.  quick education for you, in 99 when the song was at it's peak, there wasn't internet and it wasn't common knowledge that PJ didn't sing it, in fact it was just the opposite.  I know this so well because I worked in radio at the time.  I'm sure your knowledge of googling "What were the 90's like?" is probably just as accurate as, you know, living and working in radio at the time, but whatevs.

 

Are they relevant again? Have they come back?  Good for them.  GnR faded away, but they had a tour with historical numbers and now they are back to relevancy.  Pear Jam released an album just about every 2 years from like 94 to 2002, then slowed down quite a bit.  Their last album of original material was in 2013, and they are not yammered about incessantly and on the cover of every magazine etc. anymore.  It's the definition of fading away. Pearl Jam used to be the most peddled band on earth, the band your "cool uncle" who liked shit music raved about as that "metal band" they were into.     Returning from obscurity doesn't eradicate or trump having once faded.  I'll take your word for it that they are "back" but ffs, don't get so defensive over them.  I mean, I point out how I dislike the slow grind of all of their songs and you legit freaked out and linked to one of the 5 up-tempo songs to prove me wrong. For some bizarre reason, you feel like me disliking his awful warbling, whining, shit vocal approach somehow is minimized because Axl has a higher vocal range.  

 

I guess we just have different approaches to music, per your reply, the things I hate about the band seem to be things many people hate or the "upopoular" popular opinion... cool, cool.  You took the approach of liking the band MTV told you to like.  Respect.  

 

I didn't punch your mom, I just don't like Pearl Jam.  Go have a smoke break, ffs.  

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Posted (edited)

As I wrote before, I don't think Guns are underrated or overrated, because they're a great band who made it big. 

I think they fulfilled their musical potential with the Illusion albums, but didn't fulfil their social potential; they seemed like social revolutionaries to the youthful me, who were going to tell the establishment how it really was, and liberate free speech and social equality, until grunge killed it by warring against them, and decades before metoo criticised Hollywood; due to breaking up.

I think bands like Faster Pussycate and Love/Hate could claim to be underrated, because they put out some great music but didn't make it big.

I think bands who are created by record companies or get a lucky hit are overrated. 

Underrated definition: underestimate the extent, value, or importance of (someone or something).

 

Edited by Axl's Agony Aunt
underrated ADHD writer underestimated need for concentration
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Posted (edited)

Only on a GNR forum can you offer evidence for why a band is under rated than get told you only like that band “because MTV told me to like them.” 

Yeah, okay buddy. Do you not see the irony in that?

 

You are literally proving my point @DeadSlash

I don’t give a rats ass what radio station you worked for at the time. Your experience is subjective to your point of view. For all I know you worked at a Top 100 station. So yeah, I assume everyone in there would be dumb enough to think that 50’s classic was done by Pearl Jam. I actually just googled “how dumb were people in the 90’s” to back up my results. Or maybe you can tell me since you were there....

 

you act like you didn’t see a Guns N’ Roses shirt on every college campus BEFORE this reunion tour. And whats the point of bringing up the tour anyway? Numbers??? Relevancy??? Doesn’t that work in favor of the “over rated”??? 

What really confuses me though is you are diluted enough, probably because your favorite band is Guns N’ Roses, to believe that an album every 2 years from 1994 to 2003 is a BAD thing... since when? Pearl Jam put out 8, count them, EIGHT albums, when it took Axl and a rotating cast of STUDIO MUSICIANS TWENTY FIVEEEEEEE years to make ONE mediocre album. One live album. And a remaster/special edition. Did I mention Pearl Jam has recorded every single one of their shows since the year 2000? Thats over 600 bootlegs to choose from. And since 2011, they have offered a vault archival recording on VINYL... 

I’m sure you haven't even read my other post, but if you did, you would notice that I said PJ does a good job of keeping pockets of fans in every state that are willing to travel to go see the band every time they perform. They don’t need magazines, or interviews. Thats how peons like you know they are still around. Then you will see the cover of the magazine and laugh instead of maybe opening it and learning a thing or two, or ACTUALLY listening to the music you so easily talk shit about. Im sure you will find it is more than a goat boy warble....

and ohhh i “freaked out?” And linked to one of their 5 up tempo songs? Exactly why you need to look at their catalogue more. You are talking shit you know nothing about. I offered evidence for song writing, creativity, all of the band members credits, their touring and live shows, and what do I get?

“I know it all because I was in radio at the time”

alright bro.  

Edited by KeyserSoze

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16 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

I guess we just have different approaches to music, per your reply, the things I hate about the band seem to be things many people hate or the "upopoular" popular opinion... cool, cool.

This is about the only logical statement you made

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Posted (edited)

Underrated ? I wouldn't say the band are neither underrated nor overrated(some songs are overplayed though) but given the promise they had for the release of AFD the certainly didn't reach their full potential for a number of reasons, and it's not a case of blaming one person either. The big three were still part of the band on the UYI era and whether knowingly or not contributed to the break up of the band. 

Edited by IrishgunnerII

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Yeah, I mean Sweet Child only has a billion views on YouTube. Totally underrated...

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