The Bon Jovi Distaster

[God of Thunder]

You guys can`t compare Axl`s and Jon`s performances. Jon`s voice is just straight dead; he is stuck with 3-4 lower notes and no power in his voice at all. He can`t sing anymore- period. Axl has had his ups and downs but even on a bad performance he had voice, range and power left.

[Majestic Beast]

Bonjovi lost his way after they changed their sound from hard rock to pop rock country shit,too poppy,even more than def lepard.He is doing some tricks to hide he can't catch the hight notes but they are noticeable and that's all.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Majestic Beast

[LovelessNL]

Yeah I agree, Axl definitely has some subpar performances and can go from a scream reminiscent of the 80s (WTTJ on one of the Vegas show's for example) to complete crap all during the same show or even the same song.

JBJ is just kinda crap overall, with a few exceptions where it might be 'acceptable'.

[Sydney Fan]

On 25/07/2019 at 12:58 AM, Majestic Beast said:

Bonjovi lost his way after they changed their sound from hard rock to pop rock country shit,too poppy,even more than def lepard.He is doing some tricks to hide he can't catch the night notes but they are noticeable and that's all.

This i agree with. I think they should have stuck with the keep the faith type lyrics and sound. The country shit could have been left to a jbj solo album.

Im listening to def leppards on through the night album and its embarassing how pussifed they become now.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Sydney Fan

[LovelessNL]

20 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

This i agree with. I think they should have stuck with the keep the faith type lyrics and sound. The country shit could have been left to a jbj solo album.

Im listening to def leppards on through the night album and its embarassing how pussifed they become now.

I thought it sold well in North- and South America, I think for a large part the 'casual fans' here in Europe (and yep; I'm one of those) kinda lost interest after Have A Nice Day / Lost Highway. You could argue that the two title tracks of those albums had some airplay, but after that it went completely silent in terms of airplay and general interest. Reason they are still playing 50/60k+ venues here is because they haven't toured here for 6 years and in some countries (like The Netherlands for example) even 9 years. 

I highly doubt they will play the same venues if they would return in 2 - 3 years and its just another regular album tour instead of something special like the return of Sambora or a 'greatest hits' / certain album/period tour.

[RussTCB]

The best Bon Jovi album is These Days, by a long shot. 

[Sydney Fan]

15 hours ago, LovelessNL said:

I thought it sold well in North- and South America, I think for a large part the 'casual fans' here in Europe (and yep; I'm one of those) kinda lost interest after Have A Nice Day / Lost Highway. You could argue that the two title tracks of those albums had some airplay, but after that it went completely silent in terms of airplay and general interest. Reason they are still playing 50/60k+ venues here is because they haven't toured here for 6 years and in some countries (like The Netherlands for example) even 9 years. 

I highly doubt they will play the same venues if they would return in 2 - 3 years and its just another regular album tour instead of something special like the return of Sambora or a 'greatest hits' / certain album/period tour.

I think some of the different musical directions the band has done has alienated the die hard and casual fans.

[lame ass security]

On 6/27/2019 at 1:16 PM, downzy said:

It's a good call.  Once you depend on others to write hits you're less of an artist and more of a performer.  There's nothing wrong with being a performer.  But they're not the same as artists in the same vein as Lennon, McCartney, Richards, Plant, Elton John, Billy Joel, etc.  

It really is a collaborative effort though.  Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards,  Plant/Page, Elton John/Bernie Taupin.  Did Billy Joel write with other people?

[Sydney Fan]

12 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

It really is a collaborative effort though.  Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards,  Plant/Page, Elton John/Bernie Taupin.  Did Billy Joel write with other people?

Im sure he had outside writers on hus albums but not a writing partner per se.

[lame ass security]

4 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Im sure he had outside writers on hus albums but not a writing partner per se.

Yeah, that's what I thought too but wasn't sure.  Billy's Greatest Hits Vol. 1 and 2 is  an all time favorite of mine.

[downzy]

2 hours ago, lame ass security said:

It really is a collaborative effort though.  Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards,  Plant/Page, Elton John/Bernie Taupin.  Did Billy Joel write with other people?

Maybe with some, but not with Lennon/McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin.  

Lennon and McCartney wrote very few songs together.  They usually brought in fully-formed songs and would incorporate notes given by the other into the final product.  I think there's only a handful of songs where they actually wrote together.

Bernie Taupin never heard the music before submitting his lyrics.  Elton would often write the music ahead of time and adapt the melody line and rhythm to fit Taupin's words.  

As far as I'm aware, Joel writes all of his own material.  Another would be Bob Dylan.

But regardless, collaboration is still a creative process.  Performers interpret material given to them, which I guess is an art onto its own.  But in my opinion interpreting and performing exists on a different level than creating and collaborating.  

[lame ass security]

48 minutes ago, downzy said:

Maybe with some, but not with Lennon/McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin.  

Lennon and McCartney wrote very few songs together.  They usually brought in fully-formed songs and would incorporate notes given by the other into the final product.  I think there's only a handful of songs where they actually wrote together.

Bernie Taupin never heard the music before submitting his lyrics.  Elton would often write the music ahead of time and adapt the melody line and rhythm to fit Taupin's words.  

As far as I'm aware, Joel writes all of his own material.  Another would be Bob Dylan.

But regardless, collaboration is still a creative process.  Performers interpret material given to them, which I guess is an art onto its own.  But in my opinion interpreting and performing exists on a different level than creating and collaborating.  

Yeah, the Elton/Bernie method was definitely an oddity in the songwriting process. Lennon/McCartney inspired each other and it was certainly a competition between them.  I read recently that Paul said John only complimented him once on a song; I think it was Here, There, and Everywhere.

Edited August 7, 2019 by lame ass security

[downzy]

19 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

Yeah, the Elton/Bernie method was definitely an oddity in the songwriting process. Lennon/McCartney inspired each other and it was certainly a competition between them.  I read recently that Paul said John only complimented him once on a song; I think it was Here, There, and Everywhere.

Really?  I recall reading or hearing about how Paul was going to remove the line "the movement you need is on your shoulder" from Hey Jude and John told him to keep it, that it was great.  

I also remember Paul saying that when he first played Let It Be for John he thought John would tell him someone else had already written it and that Paul had unwittingly ripped off another song writer.  But John thought the song was great and told him he'd never heard anything like it before.

My perception based on the little I know is John didn't hold a lot of respect for Paul's songs; John saw himself as the more edgy and innovative songwriter of the group who pushed boundaries where Paul kept both foot on the safe but poppy melody train.  I remember hearing how John was not a fan of Paul's Helter Skelter as he thought it was Paul venturing into John's domain.  

[Sydney Fan]

5 minutes ago, downzy said:

Really?  I recall reading or hearing about how Paul was going to remove the line "the movement you need is on your shoulder" from Hey Jude and John told him to keep it, that it was great.  

I also remember Paul saying that when he first played Let It Be for John he thought John would tell him someone else had already written it and that Paul had unwittingly ripped off another song writer.  But John thought the song was great and told him he'd never heard anything like it before.

My perception based on the little I know is John didn't hold a lot of respect for Paul's songs; John saw himself as the more edgy and innovative songwriter of the group who pushed boundaries where Paul kept both foot on the safe but poppy melody train.  I remember hearing how John was not a fan of Paul's Helter Skelter as he thought it was Paul venturing into John's domain.  

I thought with pauls wings band it was different where john liked tge wings stuff they did........

[lame ass security]

6 minutes ago, downzy said:

Really?  I recall reading or hearing about how Paul was going to remove the line "the movement you need is on your shoulder" from Hey Jude and John told him to keep it, that it was great.  

I also remember Paul saying that when he first played Let It Be for John he thought John would tell him someone else had already written it and that Paul had unwittingly ripped off another song writer.  But John thought the song was great and told him he'd never heard anything like it before.

My perception based on the little I know is John didn't hold a lot of respect for Paul's songs; John saw himself as the more edgy and innovative songwriter of the group who pushed boundaries where Paul kept both foot on the safe but poppy melody train.  I remember hearing how John was not a fan of Paul's Helter Skelter as he thought it was Paul venturing into John's domain.  

I had heard about John telling Paul to keep the "movement" part in Hey Jude also.  But I just reread the article where Paul said that John complimented him only that one time on a song.  Maybe he was talking about an entire song, not just parts of a song.  

Edited August 7, 2019 by lame ass security

[lame ass security]

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-compliment-paul-mccartney/

[Majestic Beast]

And the disaster continues...

Not even the middle notes can't catch in this hit song,tired and out of breath voice,so sad,he should make some lessons to improve his vocals,some rest or whatever,hetfield did,axl did and they sing a little better.Next one i can remember with so bad condition voice in lives,is David Coverdale,but he had always problems with his chords back in years,so for him is not something we didn't knew before,but Jon cmon,give some respect to your self,the band and the people,take a big break to fix some things.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Majestic Beast

[MillionsOfSpiders]

What a shame. I’m not into their music at all but he did have a beautiful voice. 

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Majestic Beast said:

but Jon cmon,give some respect to your self,the band and the people,take a big break to fix some things.

Oh come on, stop exaggerating. I am listening to another clip right now from this tour and it's not as bad as you're making it out to be and the audience seems to be having a blast. If they don't mind his voice ain't what it used to be, then why do you care..

[Majestic Beast]

The case is in difficult songs,not in songs like its my life or always,and there he struggles a lot,at least he doesn't play playback like some others.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Majestic Beast

[action]

On 18-8-2019 at 6:51 PM, EvanG said:

Oh come on, stop exaggerating. I am listening to another clip right now from this tour and it's not as bad as you're making it out to be and the audience seems to be having a blast. If they don't mind his voice ain't what it used to be, then why do you care..

I second this

the clip looked like a lot of fun, at least he's not sounding like a certain disney character

[LovelessNL]

On 8/18/2019 at 6:51 PM, EvanG said:

Oh come on, stop exaggerating. I am listening to another clip right now from this tour and it's not as bad as you're making it out to be and the audience seems to be having a blast. If they don't mind his voice ain't what it used to be, then why do you care..

I've been to one of the recent shows, and it was horrible. People started leaving a few songs into the set, and people who didnt know each other were kinda questioning one another 'is it just me or does he sound like crap?'.

Sure, there'll always be the die-hard fans that will be up front having a blast, especially since he was playing places he hasn't been for years. But honestly, it was a total shitshow.

And sure, he might have had a cold or throat infection or whatever, but you can at least apologize (or cancel/postpone if its really bad) and tell the crowd about it, but he didnt, which lead me to believe this is just how it is nowadays.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, LovelessNL said:

I've been to one of the recent shows, and it was horrible. People started leaving a few songs into the set, and people who didnt know each other were kinda questioning one another 'is it just me or does he sound like crap?'.

Sure, there'll always be the die-hard fans that will be up front having a blast, especially since he was playing places he hasn't been for years. But honestly, it was a total shitshow.

And sure, he might have had a cold or throat infection or whatever, but you can at least apologize (or cancel/postpone if its really bad) and tell the crowd about it, but he didnt, which lead me to believe this is just how it is nowadays.

You probably went to a Dutch show then, right? Dutch people are assholes.

But seriously, I just listened to a couple of clips after reading that guy's reaction, and yes, his voice is far from what it used to be, but it wasn't ''unlistenable'' either. The thing is... Bon Jovi songs are not easy vocal wise, and a lot of them have very high notes. Even back in the day when he was a superb singer he would have trouble reaching some of those high notes. I suppose they could decide to stop playing those songs and only play the easier songs, but a lot of the songs people want to hear have those high notes, so they play them and you hear him struggling but still giving everything he has got. I think a lot of people appreciate that and most of them, also reading a few of the youtube comments from people who had been to that show, seem to be positive. When you go there expecting to hear 1995 Jon Bon Jovi you're probably in for a disappointment, though.

Edited August 21, 2019 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]

On 07/08/2019 at 4:43 AM, lame ass security said:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/john-lennon-compliment-paul-mccartney/

He might not have complimented him to his face (how many blokes ever do that anyway?  its just not how we're wired) but he complimented them in other interviews often, there's one where he was basically singing up Yoko and he said 'the way i look at it I've only ever chosen two writing partners in my life, Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono so I'm doin' alright', thats a compliment, he's saying they're amazing songwriting partners. 

How often do blokes compliment each other though?  Look at your mates, how many times have you ever turned to them and gone 'did I ever tell you that you're a smashing lad?  The way you do things, its fuckin' well good', he'd probably think you were either looking to tap him for a tenner or else on the turn

In a way, every time they wrote songs and together and like...accepted the other persons line thats a compliment innit, you're saying 'thats good, we'll keep that in'. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Len Cnut

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, SAU3R said:

First of all, I don't think that Dutch people are assholes, I saw the Stones in Amsterdam 2017, John Mayer in Amsterdam 2017 and GNR in Nijmegen 2017 and 2018 and even though Axl did sound like Mickey Mouse for some parts and the Stones weren't exactly on top of their game in 2017, the crowd loved it and the atmosphere was great 

So I think when people (whether dutch or not) start leaving during a concert it's most likely because the concert is shit.. I mean peoole left when GNR played Berlin in 2018 and not because all Germans are assholes but because they did not sound good

And while there are some Bon Jovi songs that are definitely hard to sing (and many of them are the big hits), JBJ also struggles on songs without high notes, he basically struggles on every song in their set, on the 2019 leg even more than before 

I'm Dutch myself, I was sorta kidding. Maybe not totally, because the Dutch are very direct to the point of not being too nice. Trust me, I would know.

I also went to the GnR show in Nijmegen last year. It has to do with expectations. I didn't expect Axl to sound like he did during the AFD or UYI tour, so I ended up having a great time even though the vocals weren't great in every song, but I wouldn't expect that of a guy who is going on 60. Same story with Bon Jovi. When you go there expecting him to sound like he did 30 years ago when he was in his prime, you're going to be disappointed. And compared to a lot of rock bands, Bon Jovi songs don't depend on a lot of screaming or short notes (if that makes sense), you have to be a good singer to really pull them off. At his age he will never sing like he used to, and if people buy a ticket and expect that, they are a bit naive. Jon has lost a lot of power in his voice and he has a hard time reaching certain notes, but he's not singing out of tune and completely butchering the setlist either.

That being said, there are singers who reach an old age and don't lose much of their voice, but I believe that is genetics. Some people start losing their voice sooner than others and there isn't a lot you can do about it.