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26 years ago today- the end

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On 7/18/2019 at 11:16 PM, Rovim said:

I read this often: "Gn'R could have been as big as The Stones" or some variation of that. I don't believe it. They were far more combustible, not on the same page when it came to musical direction or how big they wanted to become and there is no proof they had more than just one masterpiece in them. There's a reason The Stones became so huge. Not many bands can put out so many truly great albums. The Stones were also more original as a band.

Gn'R had Appetite, Lies, and Illusions and by that time Izzy had already checked out mentally. They couldn't even keep it together long enough to follow the Illusions. Many UYI tunes were written close to when the Appetite material was composed.

I think it's possible they could have done more, especially if Izzy stayed in Gn'R but again, there wasn't a shared musical vision anymore. Axl wanted to incorporate new influences while Slash didn't really want to do that, he never even had a piano player in one of his bands and Izzy's solo material is a good indication of what he likes to play which is straightforward rock n' roll. 

 

How would we know? They released 3 and a half albums worth of (original) material in 4 years, with about 2 and a half of it being what I would call pretty fucking great. 

The Stones didn't hit their "Golden Age" until their 7th album with Beggars Banquet, imo.

Who knows what would've happened if they stayed together? Axl was pretty up on musical trends in the early 90's. If they would've worked their shit out who knows how it could've gone?

At least the Stones waited until they were in their 40's to go through a breakup. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Crazyman said:

How would we know? They released 3 and a half albums worth of (original) material in 4 years, with about 2 and a half of it being what I would call pretty fucking great. 

The Stones didn't hit their "Golden Age" until their 7th album with Beggars Banquet, imo.

Who knows what would've happened if they stayed together? Axl was pretty up on musical trends in the early 90's. If they would've worked their shit out who knows how it could've gone?

At least the Stones waited until they were in their 40's to go through a breakup. 

They had a lot of time between the release of UYI until Slash left in 1996. 5 years including the tour. 3 years after completing it. Like I said, even UYI sounded like they were not on the same page musically anymore. Slash and Duff flat out refusing to work on November Rain and Estranged according to Axl, Izzy's UYI tunes staying close in style to what they did before while Slash taking over the guitar sound, losing the guitar interplay he and Izzy had and Axl adding all sorts of sound effects the band didn't really want on the album.

They already lost the unified musical vision they had making UYI and while I love that album, it sounds disjointed, all over the place.

I did mention I believe they could have done more but without Izzy the chances of that were slim imo and it did fall apart. Axl and Duff didn't want to go with what Slash had, the Snakepit material, Axl said Slash didn't want to share his Fall To Pieces ideas, and Duff and Matt didn't want to work on Oh My God if I remember correctly.

So while we don't know what it could have been, we do know the band just wasn't a band anymore, unable to agree on where to go musically, and not getting along as people as well. They couldn't even release a mediocre album let alone a great one.

Edited by Rovim
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21 hours ago, Rovim said:

They had a lot of time between the release of UYI until Slash left in 1996. 5 years including the tour. 3 years after completing it. Like I said, even UYI sounded like they were not on the same page musically anymore. Slash and Duff flat out refusing to work on November Rain and Estranged according to Axl, Izzy's UYI tunes staying close in style to what they did before while Slash taking over the guitar sound, losing the guitar interplay he and Izzy had and Axl adding all sorts of sound effects the band didn't really want on the album.

They already lost the unified musical vision they had making UYI and while I love that album, it sounds disjointed, all over the place.

I did mention I believe they could have done more but without Izzy the chances of that were slim imo and it did fall apart. Axl and Duff didn't want to go with what Slash had, the Snakepit material, Axl said Slash didn't want to share his Fall To Pieces ideas, and Duff and Matt didn't want to work on Oh My God if I remember correctly.

So while we don't know what it could have been, we do know the band just wasn't a band anymore, unable to agree on where to go musically, and not getting along as people as well. They couldn't even release a mediocre album let alone a great one.

"According to Axl" doesn't really hold a lot of ground to me. Say what you want about the sobriety level of Slash and Duff during those times but Axl's mind was in a different solar system and he likes to remember things so that they suit him, particularly during his rants in 2002.

In the early 1994 Rockline interview Axl (during a coherent moment!) mentioned they were looking towards a Spring 1996 release, so clearly the outline was already there for a new release 2 years in advance. At some point during those years Izzy was suppose to return to writing and not touring with the band, so it's possible if they could've stayed as a collective unit instead of venturing out towards solo careers (and Axl not having writer's block/being sued constantly), then things might've worked out for the rest of the millennium. 

I stand by my theory that they could've been a new-age Rolling Stones. They were the biggest band of their era, in some regards, and while they didn't end up having the longevity in regards to time together (or albums released), they do in regards to literally everything else, such as per album record sales, highest grossing tour, etc. It's still a shame they couldn't get their ego's and whatever other bullshit out of the way until they got old and their target audience became aged with them and felt nostalgia for the "old days".

Unfortunately GnR knows this and is trying to milk it by doing the same thing the Stones do (endless touring), minus the setlist changes or releasing of literally any new music. 

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