Stro Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Axl's vocal takes on Rocket Queen and Nightrain are amazing and there were a handful of times he tried to do them like that live and it was also awesome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I just cant listen to Rocket Queen with only Dizzy and Duff playing the rhythm in the solo sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Matinator Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said: I just cant listen to Rocket Queen with only Dizzy and Duff playing the rhythm in the solo sections. The dizzy bongos are A+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Dizzy is not the problem. The thing is that Izzy's original rhythm guitar in this song is awesome and I miss it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Axl's vocals on RQ and NT are studio takes from the 90s or something Edited July 26, 2019 by ZoSoRose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) I don’t know why they messed with YCBM. The Tokyo DVD version is really great and better unedited. At least they kept that ending scream... fucking legendary! With that pulsing whammy... I love GNR, I love live albums... I never listen to Live Era anymore. Feels too cut and pasted; disjointed — just doesn’t work for me. Edited July 26, 2019 by Ant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stro Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, ZoSoRose said: Axl's vocals on RQ and NT are studio takes from the 90s or something I would imagine from the same sessions where the earliest recorded CD songs came from. Sounds like the same voice/technique/highs as IRS especially, imo. I would say it's probably pretty possible that they were takes from the AFD 99 sessions as well. Edited July 26, 2019 by Stro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Stro said: I would imagine from the same sessions where the earliest recorded CD songs came from. Sounds like the same voice/technique/highs as IRS especially, imo. I would say it's probably pretty possible that they were takes from the AFD 99 sessions as well. Always had the same impression. Maybe it's not the exact takes from the AFD 99, but it all came out from the same sessions indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadedNightraiN Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 4:42 AM, thunderram said: Don't forget the repetitive skip at the end of Paradise City. How a record company allows that to end up on the version approved for release is beyond me. That was a fault during manufacturing. It wasn't sent to them like that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) On 7/25/2019 at 8:57 PM, rebeldhipi said: Its still a mystery where the second part of Patience is from ( the electric part) Matt does a drum fill that dosent match any of the suggested ones online. My guess is that its from a 1992 stadium show. Prehaps Houston?? Also Welcome is a mystery, ive seen online it being marked as Argentina 1992 the second show. Paris 92 Edited July 27, 2019 by Flake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Obviously I agree with most of what has been posted so far. Pointless overdubbing, some questionable mixing decisions (the crowd is way too high in the mix and there's quite noticeable loops throughout the album, why remove the rythm guitar from RQ?) but what's even worse is the crushed mastering. The album is basically in the red all the time with very noticeable saturation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/27/2019 at 11:28 AM, Flake said: Paris 92 Nope, the same thing Matt dosent play the live era drum fill in paris 1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 here's some info I compiled some time back from this and other forums. all credits go to the original posters, also there might be some newly discovered facts that are not included in this list. do yourself a favor, search for some keywords from this list at this forum, I'm quite sure I already posted it here once or twice at some point and some people corrected me back then, but I didn't update the original file. *** A lot of the songs were re-recorded, I'll list some of them. Nightrain: This one is definitely re-recorded. Axl could just not do these type of screams from 1988-1994. His voice is very high, but has the tone of Axl's 2002 voice. This Nightrain is just about flawless. If you want a good representation of what Axl's Nightrain truly sounded during that time period you can listen to the Chicago 1992 performance. Mr. Brownstone: This one is also re-recorded. If you want proof listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izxy1bmppr8 The Live Era version was taken from this performance and as you can see, they sound completely different from each other. Welcome To The Jungle: Another re-recorded one. The best example I can give you on this song is Axl's final scream at the end where he says "you're gonna die", his voice is very clean in that scream and in various certain sectors of songs, but at the same time he can give out a growl which only pertains to the late 90s/early 00s. My Michelle: This song is just as easily distinguishable as Nightrain. His voice in this track sounds very refreshed, and again, flawless. There's a certain tone to his voice, again, that can be associated with Axl of the late 90s/early 00s vocals. Used To Love Her: Now, much of this track was left untouched, vocally. This was a 1988 performance, which is easy to tell since Axl's voice 'deteriorated' as this year went on. (Axl's voice in Donnington '88 was almost non-existing, it was pretty horrible) The only vocal section that was re-recorded in this song was the last verse. November Rain: Axl's voice is very clean on this track. It is the exact opposite of what Axl's method of singing November Rain used to be. If you listen to any 2001-2002 bootleg then you'll hear that Axl's voice sounds almost exactly the same on this record compared to those performances. This is horrendously easy to tell. Pretty Tied Up: Axl's voice in this tracks is just exactly how I described it on My Michelle. It is almost flawless. His pitch and tone is exactly how I described it for My Michelle, so you can pretty much get the general idea. Move To The City: The vocal track was obviously re-recorded here. In the orginal show, where this track was derived from, which is the 2/22/92 Tokyo show, his voice had more of a gargled glass quality. It sounded like he was gargling glass, originally. Axl uses a much more mature 'raspy' voice here. The tone is just as deep as it was during 1993 but without 'all the jangled mess'. His voice is cleaner and stronger in this track, you can make out the words more easily. You Could Be Mine: About 1/2 of this song was re-recorded vocally. Just listen to the original performance from 2/22/92 Tokyo. Rocket Queen: This track is the most obvious re-recorded track out of the whole record. This track sounds amazing. The entire piece was re-recorded. Again Axl's 'new rasp' which is very punk-ish and high pitched is used here. The outro is just 'so' the Axl of the late 90s/early 00s. If you compare the outro of Rocket Queen here to the outro of Rocket Queen to any 2001/2002 performance then you will almost get the exact same sound, it is uncanny. Sweet Child O' Mine: Axl's voice in this track is very raw and deep. It was indeed re-recorded. You can hear this especially whenever he does any type of screams, they are just too clean. Estranged: Axl's 'normal' speaking voice for the first few minutes was left alone, but right after the piano solo there comes the re-recorded vocals. And it's pretty obvious that most of the crowd noise is fake. === @IndiannaRose I posted this a while back. I think it can pretty much answer your question: For Live Era-vocally-I can tell you a lot of info. For example when you're a person that collects over a hundred audio and video bootlegs you start to see the changes and different sounds that the band had through years. Axl's voice to me, can be easily defined by eras or certain live shows. His voice is very dynamic, which means that it sounds different in almost every bootleg, but stll having a basic sound for a specific era. I can give you a list, pretty close to the actual list of re-recorded vocal tracks: Disc 1: -Nightrain: This is pretty obvious. Axl could just not do these type of screams from 1988-1994. His voice is very high, but has the tone of Axl's current voice. This Nightrain is close to being flawless. If you want a good representation of what Axl's Nightrain truly sounded duing that time period you can liste to the 6-17-93 Buenos Aires, Argentina show. Or you can listen to the Tokyo DVDs which have more access. -Welcome to the Jungle: certain sections of Welcome to the Jungle were re-recorded, for example the best example I can give you on this song is Axl's final scream at the end where he says "you're gonna die", not many people notice it but his voice is very clean in that scream and in various certain sectors of songs, but at the same time he can give out a growl which only pertains to the late 90s/early 00s. RIR3's Welcome to the Jungle can be comapred the best when speaking of 'the new rasp'. If you're not a fan that's familiar with live shows then it will be very hard to distinguish this track. -My Michelle: This song is just as easily distinguishable as Nightrain. Axl's 'new rasp' is very punk-ish and high, while Axl's 'old rasp' persay was very angry and deep. A good representation of Axl's 'old rasp' is the easily accesible Freddy Mercury Concert performances. His voice in this track sounds very refreshed, and again, flawless. There's a ceratin tone to his voice, again, that can be associated with Axl of the late 90s/early 00s vocals. -Used To Love Her: Now, much of this tracks was left untouched, vocally. This was a 1988 performace, which is easy to tell since Axl's voice 'deteriorated' as this year went on. (Axl's voice in Donnington '88 was almsost non-existing, it was pretty horrible) The only vocal section that was re-recorded in this song was the last verse were Axl sings: "I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her I had to put her, Oo, six feet under And I can still hear her complain" If you listen to the album right now, you will be able to see this right off the bat and you'll go "Ha, how did I miss that?" -November Rain: Axl's voice is very clean on this track. It is the exact opposite of what Axl's method of singing November Rain used to be. If you listen to any 2001-2002 bootleg then you'll hear that Axl's voice sounds almost exactly the same on this record compared to those performances. This is horrendously easy to tell. Disc 2: -Pretty Tied Up: Axl's voice in this tracks is just exactly how I described it on My Michelle. It is almost flawless. His pitch and tone is exactly how I described it for My Michelle, so you can pretty much get the general idea. -Move to the City: The vocal track was obviously re-recorded here. Axl's voice is just very stable and strong. In the orginal show, where this track was derived from, which is the 2/22/92 Tokyo show, his voice had more of a gargled glass quality. It sounded like he was gargling glass, originally. Axl uses a much more mature 'raspy' voice here. The tone is just as deep as it was during 1993 but without 'all the jangled mess'. His voice is cleaner and stronger in this track, you can make out the words more easily. You Could Be Mine: About 1/2 of this song was re-recorded vocally. Axl's new voice can be easily distinguishable right at the start were he says: "I'm a cold heartbreaker Fit ta burn and I'll rip your heart in two An I'll leave you lyin' on the bed I'll be out the door before ya wake It's nuthin' new ta you 'Cause I think we've seen that movie too With your ass in the air!" This sounds like almost nothing the Axl of the early 90s would do. His voice is very punk-ish, high, and clearly shows his 'new rasp'. Now some growls and screams were left alone. The 'rapping' part was clearly left alone. His voice is very tired and angry in that section. Now there is a part that you can clearly tell was re-recorded. I'm speaking of the scream in the middle of the song. I'm speaking of the scream right before "You've gone sketchin' too many times". His vioce is extremely clean, something the early 90s Axl would never possess. -Rocket Queen: This track is the most obvious re-recorded track out of the whole record. This track sounds amazing. The entire piece was re-recorded. Again Axl's 'new rasp' which is very punk-ish and high pitched is used here. Even though it's re-recorded, this is one of my favorite vocal 'performaces' of Rocket Queen, period. Axl's voice is so close to perfection. The outro is just 'so' the Axl of the late 90s/early 00s. If you compare the outro of Rocket Queen here to the outro of Rocket Queen to any 2001/2002 performance then you will almost get the exact same sound, it is uncanny. -Sweet Child O' Mine: All I can say is that Axl's voice in this track is very raw and deep. It was indeed re-recorded. You can hear this especially whenever he does any type of screams, they are just too clean. There was also a re-recording error here that I caught. Right at the end where Axl makes those dozens of screams he ends singing (the re-recorded Axl), but about 1.5 seconds later, very faintly, you will hear the original vocal track ending, after the song had already supposedley ended. You have to pay real close attention to notice this. I encourage everyone else to listen to this as this clearly shows this tune was re-recorded. -Estranged: This is the last track of Disc 2 that was re-recorded.Axl's 'normal' speaking voice for the first few minutes was left alone, but right after the piano solo there comes the re-recorded vocals. Now, another error can be found here that will clearly give the re-recording enigma away. The music to this track originates from the 2/22/92 Tokyo show. Now I may not be the only one that has caught this. In Tokyo's vocals Axl sings the words: "And you don't talk so loud An you don't walk so proud ny more, and what for" In the original vocal track right after the words "and what for" Axl says "Nooo" with the same type of voice. Just watch the Tokyo DVD and you will notice the "Nooo" I'm speaking of. But listen to this, in Live Era right after the words "and what for" (which were re-recorded) then you will very faintly hear the "Nooo" being muffled out. You have to pay real close attention, but after the words "and what for"" on Live Era you will hear a very silent "Nooo" that was muffled out to give way to the re-recorded vocals. Trust me, Live Era was a very complex process. If you can't tell, then your ears have not been exposed enough to the live and studio sound of Guns N' Roses through out the years to make a solid opinion. I hope this helped. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 These are mostly about the Vocals. Im talking about the music, which were mostly left alone (drum fix at Brownstone was obviously done) I dont think they invited the Illusions lineup to rerecord Jungle or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Slash did record some guitar stuff and send it to axl for the album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Duff's flub at the beginning of SCOM was either fixed or overdubbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, zombux said: -Estranged: This is the last track of Disc 2 that was re-recorded.Axl's 'normal' speaking voice for the first few minutes was left alone, but right after the piano solo there comes the re-recorded vocals. Now, another error can be found here that will clearly give the re-recording enigma away. The music to this track originates from the 2/22/92 Tokyo show. Now I may not be the only one that has caught this. In Tokyo's vocals Axl sings the words: "And you don't talk so loud An you don't walk so proud ny more, and what for" In the original vocal track right after the words "and what for" Axl says "Nooo" with the same type of voice. Just watch the Tokyo DVD and you will notice the "Nooo" I'm speaking of. But listen to this, in Live Era right after the words "and what for" (which were re-recorded) then you will very faintly hear the "Nooo" being muffled out. You have to pay real close attention, but after the words "and what for"" on Live Era you will hear a very silent "Nooo" that was muffled out to give way to the re-recorded vocals. I didnt have much access to bootlegs back in 1999, but I could always tell how Axl's vocals were clearly different from what he sang in the 90s. Keep in mind that was before his comeback in Vegas and Rio 2001. This Estranged leftover is pretty obvious to me, just like I could always hear Axl's voice faintly in the mix in the very begining of SCOM - he was obviously still singing Grand Funk Railroad - Bad Times when Slash starts to play the intro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Also You can hear Axl finishing his rant in the intro of Outta Get Me from London 1987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Korean Democracy Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 At first I hated that a band that was so good live released such an overdubbed and fake "live album" but i've grown to appreciate Axl's vocals as alternative studio takes. I find very interesting & weird that on most overdubbed tracks he could get the middle range rasp vocals easily while on the high notes he switched to falsetto since that's the opposite of what he's been doing live on recent years (he has difficulty doing the mid range rasp and switches to Mickey then, while on high notes he goes for raspy screaming vocals) BTW, it's Paradise City overdubbed or not? It's the only one i'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedYourIllusion Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, North Korean Democracy said: At first I hated that a band that was so good live released such an overdubbed and fake "live album" but i've grown to appreciate Axl's vocals as alternative studio takes. I find very interesting & weird that on most overdubbed tracks he could get the middle range rasp vocals easily while on the high notes he switched to falsetto since that's the opposite of what he's been doing live on recent years (he has difficulty doing the mid range rasp and switches to Mickey then, while on high notes he goes for raspy screaming vocals) BTW, it's Paradise City overdubbed or not? It's the only one i'm not sure. Paradise is most certainly not, I get lost on Jungle trying to figure out which parts are original or not Edited July 28, 2019 by UsedYourIllusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernandoGNR Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I'm pretty sure some parts of WTTJ are from Tokyo Feb 20, 1992 (the second night, not the officially released show) For example this verse: "You learn to live like an animal in the jungle where we play, If you got a" sounds exactly the same on the bootleg as on the Live Era track. Axl sings that part in a very disctintive way than how he used to do it at other shows, and they both match if you compare them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 48 minutes ago, fernandoGNR said: I'm pretty sure some parts of WTTJ are from Tokyo Feb 20, 1992 (the second night, not the officially released show) For example this verse: "You learn to live like an animal in the jungle where we play, If you got a" sounds exactly the same on the bootleg as on the Live Era track. Axl sings that part in a very disctintive way than how he used to do it at other shows, and they both match if you compare them Very interesting, it does sound alot like it, but theres some things missing. during that very part you mentioned Slashes guitar is a bit different ( could be fixed in the studio) The guitar notes at the very beginning from live era are missing. Also Axl says ''youre in the jungle tokyo'' but vocals are not a good reference cause lots were overdubed. From 3:35 both slashes and gilbys guitar sound different from the boot. You can hear Slash mute his string at 3:27 which dosent happen on the boot, and im doubtful that Slash would overdub a muted string in the studio. Also the outro where they go crazy its not matching each other, i see no point overdubbing that. This one is really close,but i dont think its this one. I think Gilbys tone on live era is closer to when he switched to VOX amps for the metallica tour. I could be wrong on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernandoGNR Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said: Very interesting, it does sound alot like it, but theres some things missing. during that very part you mentioned Slashes guitar is a bit different ( could be fixed in the studio) The guitar notes at the very beginning from live era are missing. Also Axl says ''youre in the jungle tokyo'' but vocals are not a good reference cause lots were overdubed. From 3:35 both slashes and gilbys guitar sound different from the boot. You can hear Slash mute his string at 3:27 which dosent happen on the boot, and im doubtful that Slash would overdub a muted string in the studio. Also the outro where they go crazy its not matching each other, i see no point overdubbing that. This one is really close,but i dont think its this one. I think Gilbys tone on live era is closer to when he switched to VOX amps for the metallica tour. I could be wrong on this one. Yeah you're absolutely right. I know the music it's from a different show, but some of the vocals, or at least the verse that I quoted might be from this Tokyo show (Feb 20) and obvioulsy some of the vocals on other verses were re-recorded, so who knows Edited July 29, 2019 by fernandoGNR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis1988 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I’ve always wondered on Estranged why they left Axl’s original vocal for “I jumped into the river” but then it immediately switches to the studio take for the next line, it’s so jarring and obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, fernandoGNR said: Yeah you're absolutely right. I know the music it's from a different show, but some of the vocals, or at least the verse that I quoted might be from this Tokyo show (Feb 20) and obvioulsy some of the vocals on other verses were re-recorded, so who knows It defenetly might. At the same time taking a vocal from Tokyo 92 and copy it over another show would be quite something that im not sure they did. Its not super easy to make it sound good with all the bleeding from instruments into Axls mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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