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Mass Shooting at Walmart in El Paso


BlueJean Baby

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The people of the United States will NEVER surrender or voluntarily relinquish their weapons. Ever. That isn’t ever going to happen, so all the talk about removing, banning, taking guns because it will mean less gun crime is ridiculous. Placing the blame anywhere else but the person that pulled the trigger is even more ridiculous. The second is entrenched in this country. 

If you can’t figure out how to lead a country without making them surrender their weapons then you probably aren’t the one that should be leading the country. 

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1 minute ago, Download said:

The people of the United States will NEVER surrender or voluntarily relinquish their weapons. Ever. That isn’t ever going to happen, so all the talk about removing, banning, taking guns because it will mean less gun crime is ridiculous. Placing the blame anywhere else but the person that pulled the trigger is even more ridiculous. The second is entrenched in this country. 

If you can’t figure out how to lead a country without making them surrender their weapons then you probably aren’t the one that should be leading the country. 

No one is not blaming the murderers. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't organise society in a way that would reduce gun violence. 

And every society develops. The fact that USA still is somewhat primitive in regards to guns, and haven't developed to a state where the vast majority of citizens don't see the point in owning instruments for violence, doesn't mean it won't. Every other developed nation has. 

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15 minutes ago, Download said:

The people of the United States will NEVER surrender or voluntarily relinquish their weapons. Ever. That isn’t ever going to happen, so all the talk about removing, banning, taking guns because it will mean less gun crime is ridiculous. Placing the blame anywhere else but the person that pulled the trigger is even more ridiculous. The second is entrenched in this country. 

If you can’t figure out how to lead a country without making them surrender their weapons then you probably aren’t the one that should be leading the country. 

Nobody is trying to take your guns. Some of the common sense measures that Obama tried to implement included stopping people with a history of mental illness and those on terrorist watch lists from buying guns. Congress apparently thought this was a bad idea. 

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16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No one is not blaming the murderers. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't organise society in a way that would reduce gun violence. 

And every society develops. The fact that USA still is somewhat primitive in regards to guns, and haven't developed to a state where the vast majority of citizens don't see the point in owning instruments for violence, doesn't mean it won't. Every other developed nation has. 

You see America as primitive when it comes to guns but that’s the way I see every other nation with strict gun laws. Go down to Texas and start knocking on doors demanding guns and see exactly how primitive you find it to be 😂

im not saying your thoughts and feels about civilized society, developed nations, and gun laws are wrong, I’m just saying when you talk about removing guns from gun owners in the United States of America, you almost talk as though you’re above us and looking down. I take it you’ve been to these developed nations with strict gun laws and now you’re back, and enlightened, and you know what’s best for everyone.

One way to get through to Americans is to tell them you’re smarter and know what’s best for them. 

And of course the other way is to bypass the whole persuasion thing and go straight to force. 

Good luck with both :) 

 

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15 minutes ago, Download said:

You see America as primitive when it comes to guns but that’s the way I see every other nation with strict gun laws. 

The most advanced society is surely the one with less gun violence. Such states have developed beyond the point where citizens feel the need to own guns for self-defense. Such states have succeeded at developing institutions that secure the lives of citizens and allow they to live their lives without fear. 

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18 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The most advanced society is surely the one with less gun violence. Such states have developed beyond the point where citizens feel the need to own guns for self-defense. Such states have succeeded at developing institutions that secure the lives of citizens and allow they to live their lives without fear. 

Yeah I love the way that an argument for not taking people’s guns is basically that if you try we’ll fucking shoot you. :lol: I guess that self awareness isn’t some people’s strong suit eh? :lol: 

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9 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Yeah I love the way that an argument for not taking people’s guns is basically that if you try we’ll fucking shoot you. :lol: I guess that self awareness isn’t some people’s strong suit eh? :lol: 

I’ve got two AR-15’s, 1 AR-10, a 303 British, and an M1 Garand. 

Do I get to keep those? 

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4 minutes ago, Download said:

I’ve got two AR-15’s, 1 AR-10, a 303 British, and an M1 Garand. 

Do I get to keep those? 

To clarify I’m not an anti gun Nazi. :lol: 

vzCaiCl.jpg

The AR 15 is just out of shot. The silencer on the 9mm took a year to get and needed a long application process. 

This photo was taken in San Antonio Texas by the way. 

I just think that common sense gun laws shouldn’t be a dirty word. :shrugs: 

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41 minutes ago, Dazey said:

To clarify I’m not an anti gun Nazi. :lol: 

vzCaiCl.jpg

The AR 15 is just out of shot. The silencer on the 9mm took a year to get and needed a long application process. 

This photo was taken in San Antonio Texas by the way. 

I just think that common sense gun laws shouldn’t be a dirty word. :shrugs: 

Dude...What on earth ? 🙈

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3 hours ago, Swampfox said:

You act like mass shootings are something new.  There were dozens under Obama.  Just a few that come to mind are the Colorado movie theatre mass shooting, the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Sandy Hook school shooting and Virginia tech mass shooting.  These all happened under Obama's watch.  Were any of those Obama's fault?  Was Obama part of the problem?  Obama had 8 years to fix the problem and nothing changed but you want to put blame on Trump?  

The difference is that Obama wanted gun control. Republicans in Congress didn't.

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3 hours ago, Swampfox said:

You act like mass shootings are something new.  There were dozens under Obama.  Just a few that come to mind are the Colorado movie theatre mass shooting, the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Sandy Hook school shooting and Virginia tech mass shooting.  These all happened under Obama's watch.  Were any of those Obama's fault?  Was Obama part of the problem?  Obama had 8 years to fix the problem and nothing changed but you want to put blame on Trump?  

Not the President, Congress has the power to pass legislation. A bill is introduced, if pass in the House it goes to the Senate to be passed. If in introduced and passed in the Senate it goes to the House to be passed. The president signs into law and the Supreme Court will judge if law is constitutional or not. 

 

Republicans had the Senate and House in their control under Obama, that is why nothing was done after Sandy Hook. If dead children isn't enough to knock some senses in Republicans, nothing will. 

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17 minutes ago, Padme said:

The difference is that Obama wanted gun control. Republicans in Congress didn't.

Obama wanted gun control, there were mass shootings.  Trump wants America to keep its guns, there are mass shootings.  Again please explain how any of what happened is Trump's fault.  It's nobody's fault but the shooter.

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1 hour ago, Swampfox said:

Obama wanted gun control, there were mass shootings.  Trump wants America to keep its guns, there are mass shootings.  Again please explain how any of what happened is Trump's fault.  It's nobody's fault but the shooter.

Is anyone saying it isn't the shooter's fault? Is anyone here saying he should go free?

But there are always reasons for why someone does something, links further back in the chain of cause and effect. And that's what we are talking about now, because we want to prevent the next mass murder. And one of these chain links is the citizens of USA who doesn't vote for politicians who stand on a platform of limiting gun violence through more sensible regulation. Again, only the shooter is at fault for the crimes he did; but the electorate of USA is at fault for not doing more to prevent such atrocities from happening, including introducing common sense gun regulation.

 

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58 minutes ago, Swampfox said:

Obama wanted gun control, there were mass shootings.  Trump wants America to keep its guns, there are mass shootings.  Again please explain how any of what happened is Trump's fault.  It's nobody's fault but the shooter.

You said it yourself. Trump wants America to keep their guns. Well not everyone can keep their guns. People with mental illness should not have access to guns. Neither violent groups like gang members or neo nazis. The control shouldn't be limited to guns stores or guns shows. There is also the internet. Today a lot of people buy all kind of stuff online. Trump should persuade members of Congress to come up with legislation. He never did that. And I'm afraid he won't

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28 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Is anyone saying it isn't the shooter's fault? Is anyone here saying he should go free?

But there are always reasons for why someone does something, links further back in the chain of cause and effect. And that's what we are talking about now, because we want to prevent the next mass murder. And one of these chain links is the citizens of USA who doesn't vote for politicians who stand on a platform of limiting gun violence through more sensible regulation. Again, only the shooter is at fault for the crimes he did; but the electorate of USA is at fault for not doing more to prevent such atrocities from happening, including introducing common sense gun regulation.

 

If we can legislate common sense gun regulation can we legislate common sense abortion regulation? We’re not coming after your abortions, liberals. We just want common sense abortion control.

You see the problem with common sense gun regulation, and why the NRA opposes any reform to the second is because it will never be enough. The endgame is to remove the second, not reform it. If you can’t atleast be honest with that point then all of this is just right and left talking points being thrown at one another. 

And what exactly is common sense gun regulation? Who says it’s common sense? Who judges what is acceptable and what isn’t? 

You will never stop a person from shooting up a mall or theater or grocery store or church or nightclub. 

If coyotes are killing your cats why in the hell would you declaw your cats? 

Edited by Download
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23 minutes ago, Padme said:

You said it yourself. Trump wants America to keep their guns. Well not everyone can keep their guns. People with mental illness should not have access to guns. Neither violent groups like gang members or neo nazis. The control shouldn't be limited to guns stores or guns shows. There is also the internet. Today a lot of people buy all kind of stuff online. Trump should persuade members of Congress to come up with legislation. He never did that. And I'm afraid he won't

Who's a neo nazi though and how would that be determined via law? Seems like a slippery slip since some on the left called Pat Buchanan a nazi, so under your ideal, he wouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Should we also ban guns from communists? I would say banning guns based on political ideology would be a huge constitutional issue. 

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13 minutes ago, grouse said:

Can any pro guns person name me one developed country in the world where gun violence has exploded after guns were banned? Because surely that must be the case when you are no longer able to defend yourself.

Well that's the thing with the US. Parts of it are first world and really nice, and other parts more closely resemble a third world country. I'ts really kind of a unique place.

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