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Mass Shooting at Walmart in El Paso


BlueJean Baby

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10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No one in this thread is advocating a ban on firearms. You are not paying attention, or not understanding what you read.

I only looked at the first two pages in this thread and saw these three reprobates advocating precisely that,

 

On 8/3/2019 at 9:13 PM, lukepowell1988 said:

You know how to stop this? Ban guns you mad cunts

 

On 8/3/2019 at 10:02 PM, spunko12345 said:

The crims might very well find other ways of killing each other but maybe let's get a head start on them banning  the most efficient killing tool available to them. It's so fucking simple. 

On 8/3/2019 at 10:37 PM, Dazey said:

Well I’m the UK. We had a mass shooting in a school in 1996 and banned all guns immediately afterwards. We’ve not had another incident since. Coincidence?

Leaving out Dazey's usual factually inaccuracies - we banned only handguns after Dunblane 1996, and it two Acts of Parliament to do that (the guns involved in the Cumbria shootings of June 2010, a shotgun and .22 calibre rifle, were legally held). 

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I only looked at the first two pages in this thread and saw these three reprobates advocating precisely that,

Oh, I can't remember that far back. Anyway, I can't remember anyone making that claim in the in last pages of this thread. Maybe quote those you comment next time?

 

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37 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I only looked at the first two pages in this thread and saw these three reprobates advocating precisely that,

 

 

Leaving out Dazey's usual factually inaccuracies - we banned only handguns after Dunblane 1996, and it two Acts of Parliament to do that (the guns involved in the Cumbria shootings of June 2010, a shotgun and .22 calibre rifle, were legally held). 

What is your point Dies?

(I'm at work at the moment so a concise waffle free version would be appreciated)

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@DieselDaisy

I still don't get why individuals should feel morally prohibited to discuss issues that their own country struggle with. Could you share some more light on this?

And even more so, why I, living in a country with a gun homicide rate of 0.1. can't "lecture" Americans (who suffer from a rate of 44.5) on gun laws and how to prevent mass murders?

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

@DieselDaisy

I still don't get why individuals should feel morally prohibited to discuss issues that their own country struggle with. Could you share some more light on this?

And even more so, why I, living in a country with a gun homicide rate of 0.1. can't "lecture" Americans (who suffer from a rate of 44.5) on gun laws and how to prevent mass murders?

I didn't say you are prohibited (somebody prohibiting Soul Monster from speaking polemics, well really?). I said you open yourself up to charges of hypocrisy. Clearly Norway's gun regulations were not worth the paper they were printed on when Breivik obtained the weaponry he desired to commit a massacre which dwarfs the type of massacres we see in the United States. 

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2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I think you're being rather petty tbh.

P.S. Just fyi the gun laws are being tightened here and a buy-back scheme is being done.

that's cute, but you're from new zealand. you're probably more at risk of being punched by a kangaroo than being shot by a gun.

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4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

1. Kangaroos are in Aussie.

2. But yeah we're probably still more likely to be punched by a kangaroo because of New Zealanders like myself who have some brains and are capable of critical thinking

so why do you show so little of that? ;) (just kidding)

in all seriousness, I would like to hear your opinion for once, in stead of always liking everything downzy and soulmonster post. you usually make some good points when you're not busy slamming my religion ;)

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29 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I said you open yourself up to charges of hypocrisy.

Well, only from morons. I live well with that. 

 

31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Clearly Norway's gun regulations were not worth the paper they were printed on when Breivik obtained the weaponry he desired to commit a massacre which dwarfs the type of massacres we see in the United States. 

With a gun homicide rate of only 0.1, one could make a very strong case that our gun laws are very efficient at helping to prevent gun violence. That one slipped through the cracks isn't evidence that we have poor gun laws (as you hilariously think :lol:), but just goes to show that you can't theoretically reduce the number of gun mass murders to zero without actually taking away all guns, which is a point I have made previously. Another massacre will happen in Norway at some time, surely. We are not entirely immune. But we will keep on having one of the world's lowest gun homicide rates, and hopefully we will again respond by taking measures that will make the next one even more unlikely.

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@DieselDaisy

It's too funny to let go. 

So in your opinion, you would be a hypocrite if you suggested changes to another country's laws regarding how to reduce knife violence, because England suffers from lots of knife violence? That would make you, as an individual, disqualified from sharing your opinions on this matter to people outside of England? :lol:

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13 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I have shared my opinion. What would you like to hear more from me on? 

Well, it's not as if I have to tell you what to post or not. Though you have reacted to some posts, so you're involved in the discussion in some capacity.

See, there have been made a couple of good points in the last pages of this thread. In stead of posting your take on the matters discussed, you've limited your input to reacting to other people's posts (apart from a couple of insubstantial replies to my posts). It's hard for me to discuss with people who do not post but only react and have nothing profound to add. Also, I'm always open to other takes on the matter since these help to shape my own opinion.

Of course, it's always possible that you agree with downzy's and soul's posts word for word, but that would be unlikely I guess. Also, not all is said and everyone has their own experience from which to give their take on the matter. There are lots of ways to look at the problems discussed, and I'm sure you could have something more to say than a mere reaction and merely calling people out for being "petty".

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19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

@DieselDaisy

It's too funny to let go. 

So in your opinion, you would be a hypocrite if you suggested changes to another country's laws regarding how to reduce knife violence, because England suffers from lots of knife violence? That would make you, as an individual, disqualified from sharing your opinions on this matter to people outside of England? :lol:

Its quite common y'know, there's an entire phrase centred around it that goes 'you should talk, your...' etc etc etc.  I was about to quote the bible here but on second thoughts... :lol:

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3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

@DieselDaisy

It's too funny to let go. 

So in your opinion, you would be a hypocrite if you suggested changes to another country's laws regarding how to reduce knife violence, because England suffers from lots of knife violence? That would make you, as an individual, disqualified from sharing your opinions on this matter to people outside of England? :lol:

I do not believe anyone has unduly solved gun crime to any great degree, at least not to lecture vociferously. You have Breivik. The Cumbrian shooting wasn't that long ago (2010) so that would be the United Kingdom's contribution. The Paris attacks have already been mentioned. Europe is depicted, pertaining to fire arms, as some sort of gun free utopia, which possesses intellectual and moral capacities in abundance compared with the yokel Trumpean United States. Dunblane is cited as a moral example for America to follow, as if the UK suddenly solved her firearms problem after 1996 (all we did was ban handguns); well Cumbria tells you this is utter tripe.

Show me somebody ''whiter than white'' and I'll show you a liar. 

There is a lot of the usual elitist smuggery from, not just yourself but your fan club. The same stuff you see regarding Brexit and religion. ''I'm right and you're (in this case USA) wrong''.  

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15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, only from morons. I live well with that. 

 

With a gun homicide rate of only 0.1, one could make a very strong case that our gun laws are very efficient at helping to prevent gun violence. That one slipped through the cracks isn't evidence that we have poor gun laws (as you hilariously think :lol:), but just goes to show that you can't theoretically reduce the number of gun mass murders to zero without actually taking away all guns, which is a point I have made previously. Another massacre will happen in Norway at some time, surely. We are not entirely immune. But we will keep on having one of the world's lowest gun homicide rates, and hopefully we will again respond by taking measures that will make the next one even more unlikely.

if attacks like the one from brevik can happen even in the face of gun regulations, one has to seriously evaluate the efficiency of the regulation altogether.

to label this massive tragedy as "that one"  that slipped through the cracks is seriously poor logic. We're not talking about a grocery trying to sift the fruit in search of a rotten apple. We're talking about a goddamn massacre resulting in 77 casualties. They can not and should not happen. If acts like these can happen, then your anti gun laws are indeed not worth the paper they are written on. Of course they aren't. The only conclusion is not "well, that one slipped through", no on the contrary it should be "what more can we do to do better next time". Seeing how anti gun laws failed, like the juridical equivalent of the unsinkable titanic, you'll need to broaden your look to other means. Not necessarily limiting gun sales (it didn't help with the brevik case, or the france attacks, or 9/11...) but trying other things like increasing internet surveilance and scanning of extremist websites. There is serious work to be done there.

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Its quite common y'know, there's an entire phrase centred around it that goes 'you should talk, your...' etc etc etc.  I was about to quote the bible here but on second thoughts... :lol:

Haha! 

I have never heard that individuals can be accused of hypocrisy simply from talking about and suggesting solutions to a problem which they personally have nothing to do with, but which plagues their country. I find it absolutely ridiculous. How does that even work? How have these individuals demonstrated a lack of knowledge on the subject matter from simply co-inhabiting with people in a country that struggles with the issue? How are their opinions less valid because they happen to live in a country where they get to see the problem more up-front? This is disqualification by association and nothing more. Remarkable.

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not believe anyone has unduly solved gun crime to any great degree, at least not to lecture vociferously.

So because any single nation hasn't succeeded at reducing gun crime to zero, no single individual can "lecture vociferously" about how to reduce gun crime? Do you think through what you write? Even coming from you such an argument boggles the mind.

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

So because any single nation hasn't succeeded at reducing gun crime to zero, no single individual can "lecture vociferously" about how to reduce gun crime? Do you think through what you write? Even coming from you such an argument boggles the mind.

nations don't make laws. Elected people do. People, elected by a nation's population.

It's everyone's right to propose solutions. Everyone can become a politician. Not a single one of them came up with efficient measures, expressed in efficient laws.

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19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Haha! 

I have never heard that individuals can be accused of hypocrisy simply from talking about and suggesting solutions to a problem which they personally have nothing to do with, but which plagues their country.

Really, you've NEVER heard that?  Come on now.  There's another associated phrase 'mind your own business'.  Now I'm not saying that I necessarily subscribe to these ideas, I'm just saying your incredulousness surrounding the very notion seems a bit put on.  You've never heard, you've never been privy to or exposed to these ideas, I find that difficult to believe. 

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7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is a lot of the usual elitist smuggery from, not just yourself but your fan club. The same stuff you see regarding Brexit and religion. ''I'm right and you're (in this case USA) wrong''.  

I have a fan club!? :lol:

No one here has stated they are right and that others are wrong, but that is typically a given in most discussions where people have strong opinions. I am sorry this upsets you so much. As for this discussion, I have argued fiercely for why I believe I am right, by pointing to stats and data and, well, common sense, in that by restricting gun access you will reduce gun violence. I am sorry you find this to be "elitist smuggery".

And when did I become part of the "elite"? :lol:

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And let's not lie about things, which people are doing when they use the United State's ratio for gun related homicides in comparison with Norway's and the UK's, etc. We are not talking about regular firearm homicides between one-three participants, usually related to robberies, domestics and gang violence. We are discussing a certain type of one-off massacre involving 10 plus victims committed by (but not exclusively) angry young racist nerds with multiple firearms who usually leave various shite on social media. El Paso is kindred with Breivik's massacre - it is the same thing.

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Just now, Oldest Goat said:

You're mistaken, I've posted my take on the topic of discussion. I don't always agree with downzy or SoulMonster, as they are aware, but from what I can recall yeah I pretty much completely agree with their points here. 

I'm only human and not a performing monkey internet-personality who always feels like constantly churning out entertaining or even engaging content. I'm not beholden to anyone to be a pleasing cartoon who only espouses views they agree with. Sometimes I just like to listen to others and make it rain with my unlimited supply of dolphins when I see fit. 

fuck those goddamn dolphins! :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Really, you've NEVER heard that?  Come on now.  There's another associated phrase 'mind your own business'.  Now I'm not saying that I necessarily subscribe to these ideas, I'm just saying your incredulousness surrounding the very notion seems a bit put on.  You've never heard, you've never been privy to or exposed to these ideas, I find that difficult to believe. 

"Mind your own business" is a common expression, but as far as I know it doesn't imply that if you don't you are a hypocrite. 

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