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Mass Shooting at Walmart in El Paso


BlueJean Baby

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11 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Who's a neo nazi though and how would that be determined via law? Seems like a slippery slip since some on the left called Pat Buchanan a nazi, so under your ideal, he wouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Should we also ban guns from communists? I would say banning guns based on political ideology would be a huge constitutional issue. 

I'm talking about groups. Authorites (F.B.I. for example) has data about those groups. It's not that hard. Those groups can be found on the internet among other places. It's about going after all kind of violent groups. The same way authorities monitor international terrorist groups and criminals in general. Well they have to do it in the domestic front as well.

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This young guy is from Allen Texas, which is like less than an hour from where I live. How sad is this? My God! So many people died yet again. All due to his hatred. 

Another shooing was in Ohio too. Another young guy. I'm so sick of reading all this. It seems like it's everyday and it's never going to stop. It's like we're all living in a war zone and you could be killed at any moment. 

So sad for the relatives and friends of the dead and injured. What can you say to them? It seems like I'm sorry just isn't enough anymore.

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59 minutes ago, Download said:

If we can legislate common sense gun regulation can we legislate common sense abortion regulation? We’re not coming after your abortions, liberals. We just want common sense abortion control.

You see the problem with common sense gun regulation, and why the NRA opposes any reform to the second is because it will never be enough. The endgame is to remove the second, not reform it. If you can’t atleast be honest with that point then all of this is just right and left talking points being thrown at one another. 

And what exactly is common sense gun regulation? Who says it’s common sense? Who judges what is acceptable and what isn’t? 

You will never stop a person from shooting up a mall or theater or grocery store or church or nightclub. 

If coyotes are killing your cats why in the hell would you declaw your cats? 

In many cases it's just hatred for a certain group of people. Why? I teach my daughter to respect everyone she meets and not hate blindly. It's 2019 and yet this still happens. 

Part of the blame has to lie with Trump for all his hate filled tweets against people and targeting people. You can't do this. There's good and evil in all races of people. Pointing the finger at one race or kind of people isn't fair. Some people who are just plain stupid like this guy, takes it as an excuse to take a gun and shoot whoever the hell he hates. I feel some people don't have that part of their brain that says no you can't do this. this will happen if you do. Some people just don't give a shit.

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Serious question for the pro gun people. What happens if an even more efficient way of killing people gets invented? Which could kill home invaders even easier. Like a powder which you could just throw over someone and any particle which hit them would cause death. Everyone could have the right to hold a pouch of powder.

Is it the fetish about guns or are other killing methods open to consideration?

 

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1 hour ago, Download said:

If we can legislate common sense gun regulation can we legislate common sense abortion regulation? We’re not coming after your abortions, liberals. We just want common sense abortion control.

You see the problem with common sense gun regulation, and why the NRA opposes any reform to the second is because it will never be enough. The endgame is to remove the second, not reform it. If you can’t atleast be honest with that point then all of this is just right and left talking points being thrown at one another. 

And what exactly is common sense gun regulation? Who says it’s common sense? Who judges what is acceptable and what isn’t? 

You will never stop a person from shooting up a mall or theater or grocery store or church or nightclub. 

If coyotes are killing your cats why in the hell would you declaw your cats? 

Yes, you should have common sense abortion laws. The problems with abortion is that people differ greatly on the facts. Some people are convinced (usually by religion) to consider fetuses and zygotes for human beings and hence entitled to full human rights. Then abortion automatically becomes murder. Other people disagree and think that fetuses before they are born, and certainly before a certain week of gestation, aren't human beings deserving of human rights, because they simply haven't developed to that stage yet. So "common sense" in this case is hard to agree upon when people have such different starting points, it is either to stop with abortion because it is murder of humans, or accept that abortion is up to the pregnant woman. But let's not make this a thread about abortion, start a new one if you want to discuss it.

And the endgame isn't to remove the 2nd amendment. I don't think many people who are arguing for sensible gun laws secretly wants to remove it. That smacks of conspiracy thinking. They simply want to add some more limitations on the right to bear arms (because, again, you already have lots of limitations) to make USA more similar to other comparable countries in terms of gun laws, and then as a result reduce the ridiculous amount of gun violence that you have.

Common sense gun laws? Laws where the result is that one isn't 25 times more likely to die in a gun homicide in the USA than in comparable countries. Because if you accept 36,000 deaths by gun violence is too much, it is common sense to pass laws that reduce the number. And sure, every law comes with its pros and cons. The pros is of course that you reduce the number of people dying. The cons is that NRA gets angry (no wait, that is a pro), that people who collect guns get mad, that people feel they can't protect themselves (but that is a delusion). To me it is simple, but then I value human lives pretty high.

And saying that we won't stop people from killing others is simply stupid. There is zero reason to not think that stricter gun laws won't reduce the amount of gun violence in the USA. Americans are subjects to the laws of nature like everybody else. If you can reduce the amount of guns floating about in the US, the amount of gun violence will drop. Simply disagreeing despite all facts and studies, is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand. Which is fine, but democracy relies on people making informed, rational decisions, not sticking your fingers in your ears, closing you eyes, and going, "lalalalalalalalalalal!".

 

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47 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

 It's like we're all living in a war zone and you could be killed at any moment. 

But of course it isn't. The chance of dying as a result of gun violence is still very low in the US. Even if the chance is 25 times higher than in other countries, you are much more likely to die from other reasons. Dying from an act of terrorism (which I assume will be the conclusion on these last atrocities) is still only 3 times as likely as dying in a natural disaster. And dying in a road accident is many-fold more likely.

So this brings me back to that culture of fear thing. Americans actually think they are in danger of being killed by someone else, hence this belief that they should protect themselves with guns. They fear gangs. They fear foreginers. They fear invasion. Hell, they even fear their own government. 

Because media presents a skewed picture of reality. Because morons like Trump goes on and on about dangerous Mexicans. Because a large proportion of Americans are hopelessly ignorant about the world outside. But most of all because they are being lied to.

So they buy guns. But as soon as you bring a gun into your home it increases the chance of you being shot. Because most acts of gun violence are domestic. You might not actually end up using it on another. But maybe your kids will take it to school. Or your partner will use it on himself in a drunken stupor after you left him. Or maybe your small 5-year-old boy will accidentally shoot your daughter with it. The probability of you actually using it to protect yourself in case of a home invasion is ridiculously small compared to all this.

So you are a victim of this culture of fear and bring guns home. That causes more gun violence. And media will report about it. And someone else will get scared and get a gun. It snowballs. And the only realistic way to stop it, or curb it, is to make it harder to obtain guns. And impose laws about how to secure weapons at home.

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And just to emphasize something: There already are gun laws in the US. There already are limitations to the second amendment. There already are guns that are very difficult to obtain and own. So this, "don't fuck around with our constitution"-argument is nonsensical. If you already accept that one shouldn't be allowed to own bazookas, short-barreled shotguns, automatic weapons, concealed weapons, etc, then it is just a small step to also make it hard to legally own some additional weapons, and thus harmonize gun laws in USA and comparable countries. It will definitely not eradicate gun violence, it might not even lower the rates to what we see other places, but it will reduce them. And how much is a human life worth again? 

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On 03/08/2019 at 5:45 PM, spunko12345 said:

It will stop criminals, it really will and does. Criminals are people and if you make it as hard as possible for a person to get a gun you will go a long way to stopping that person from shooting someone else. 

Nah, it won't stop them. Look here in Brazil. We have very restrictive gun laws and we get shootings every single day, we have way more gun deaths than you (while Serbia and Switzerland have more permissive laws and don't have a lot of gun crimes). Ban guns and criminals will get ilegal guns, and there's lots of them in the US. Some of these crimes are already commited by ilegal guns. You're just disarming the law abiding citizen and turning them into prey. At least, that's what happened here in South America.

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11 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Nah, it won't stop them. Look here in Brazil. We have very restrictive gun laws and we get shootings every single day, we have way more gun deaths than you (while Serbia and Switzerland have more permissive laws and don't have a lot of gun crimes). Ban guns and criminals will get ilegal guns, and there's lots of them in the US. Some of these crimes are already commited by ilegal guns. You're just disarming the law abiding citizen and turning them into prey. At least, that's what happened here in South America.

Ok, wow I never realised there were such shit countries. Strap up then guys it's a war zone out there. 

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2 hours ago, janrichmond said:

 

250 now 

 

image.png

Mass shootings meaning over 4 dead

One for Brazil? Lol. Obviously whoever made this had a very curious  definition of mass shooting.

homicides-by-country.jpg

 

This happens every single year. Specially in cities like Rio de Janeiro and Porto Alegre. In fact, I got mugged five times and was shot once.

Edited by Chewbacca
Pic too small
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6 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Hypothetically speaking, how does one buy a gun illegally? Like An AR-15 is over a thousand dollars to purchase legally, but wouldn't it cost more to buy it illegally? Who can afford that? 

On the US, I have no idea, probably with a dealer, we get lots of illegal guns from paraguay, for example. On Brazil it is actually cheaper, and faster, to buy from them. Also, why buy an AR 15 illegally? Buy a M4, M16 (full auto) or even a .50BMG Barret. Like this fella from a brazilian favela:

 

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9 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Hypothetically speaking, how does one buy a gun illegally? Like An AR-15 is over a thousand dollars to purchase legally, but wouldn't it cost more to buy it illegally? Who can afford that? 

Drug dealers, gang members, white supremacists, cartel associates  any form of terrorist etc. People who buy illegal firearms usually have money to get what they want they do a lot of illegal things to make money more than you or me the normal law abiding citizens. There are a lot of fucked up people lately from all generations all nationalities. There is way to much hate, racism, and weak minded people in this world! 

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8 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

Someone who has purchased it legally sells it to someone else.

We make it different here in SA, we actually get military grade stuff, thru robbery or shady schemes, and then we grind the serial number out and sell it to anyone willing to pay.

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3 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

But these shootings are done by people who have bought their gun legally. 

Not all of them. If you ban legal guns, these criminals will resort to illegal ones. You'll probably just see a rise on illegal guns related crimes.

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1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

Not all of them. If you ban legal guns, these criminals will resort to illegal ones. You'll probably just see a rise on illegal guns related crimes.

But I am talking about the US. Mass shootings are done by people who have legally purchased their firearms. 

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I give up

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Not all of them. If you ban legal guns, these criminals will resort to illegal ones. You'll probably just see a rise on illegal guns related crimes.

Jesus christ i give up. Get a fucking tank then if your that scared. Put a nuclear warhead on everyone's porch. Until the criminals get one and round and round we go. 

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4 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

But I am talking about the US. Mass shootings are done by people who have legally purchased their firearms. 

And I'm saying they will resort to illegal ones once legals are banned. Just like drugs, they will manage to get one. Heck, there's no stopping a lunatic from attempting a murder. If he/ she wants they'll find a way, like running people over with a truck/ car.

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