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Towelie

Chinese Democracy hasn't aged well IMO

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18 hours ago, Towelie said:

 

I am almost embarrassed to think that I once would've rated this album ahead of something like Appetite for Destruction. 

 

 

Well, this is a good reason to be embarassed.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I also think, based on what I've read, that Contraband is very close to what Axl was looking for in the mid-90s, as it has this "alt-rock" vibe.

It does have an "alternative rock" vibe to it, but I don't know if Contraband is very close to what Axl was looking for musically after the UYI tour has ended.

He wrote Oh My God in 1997, playing what he had to Duff and Matt. He said something like they didn't see the potential.

He explored more adventurous sounds (to Gn'R) than what Contraband went for. It is basically a riff rock record, putting emphasis on riffs and catchy, repeated choruses with a couple of ballads. Much more mainstream old school rock than what Axl ended up releasing or was influenced by (NIN, Faith No More) and way more stripped down compared to what Axl has never abandoned which is a Queen inspired approach to at least some of his music.

I think as an album it stays too close to what Gn'R already did before musically. I can see Axl, if given the chance, using Slash's Fall To Pieces ideas and his Slither riff if it existed for a Guns album then, but I think Axl wanted to make a more stylistically varied record and not have every tune feature basically the same structure like in Contraband. All of this makes me believe Axl and Slash did, in fact, have a problem of not agreeing on a musical direction for Guns.

Edited by Rovim
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7 minutes ago, Rovim said:

It does have an "alternative rock" vibe to it, but I don't know if Contraband is very close to what Axl was looking for musically after the UYI tour has ended.

He wrote Oh My God in 1997, playing what he had to Duff and Matt. He said something like they didn't see the potential.

He explored more adventurous sounds (to Gn'R) than what Contraband went for. It is basically a riff rock record, putting emphasis on riffs and catchy, repeated choruses with a couple of ballads. Much more mainstream old school rock than what Axl ended up releasing or was influenced by (NIN, Faith No More,) and way more stripped down compared to what Axl has never abandoned which is Queen inspired approach to at least some of his music.

I think as an album it stays too close to what Gn'R already did before musically. I can see Axl, if given the chance, using Slash's Fall To Pieces ideas and his Slither riff if it existed for a Guns album then, but I think Axl wanted to make a more stylistically varied record and not have every tune feature basically the same structure like in Contraband. All of this makes me believe Axl and Slash did, in fact, have a problem of not agreeing on a musical direction for Guns.

Although it's, of course, impossible to know exactly what was going on and what Axl was thinking, I think, mostly based on what Slash said the time, that what Axl had in mind for the next GnR album in the mid-90s with Slash wasn't the same that he did later, after Slash left. It looks that he was going for a varied album, yes, but mostly riff-based with a grungy/Pearl Jam vibe, plus some epic ballads.

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Better has got better,  wish they would re-record it with the new intro. This I Love is great, just not a rock song.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Although it's, of course, impossible to know exactly what was going on and what Axl was thinking, I think, mostly based on what Slash said the time, that what Axl had in mind for the next GnR album in the mid-90s with Slash wasn't the same that he did later, after Slash left. It looks that he was going for a varied album, yes, but mostly riff-based with a grungy/Pearl Jam vibe, plus some epic ballads.

As you said, impossible to know what Axl was thinking but it does make me wonder. Axl said in the Kurt Loder 1999 interview if I'm not mistaken that no one could really come up with a certain style of riffs like Slash could. I think the context was different, but could it be that what made Axl change some of his approach or musical goals was the fact Slash was gone, taking with him the ability to come up with those inherently Guns sounding riffs? 

My guess is it's possible Axl's decision to make his version of a Guns album less riff based could have had nothing to do with Slash but it would make sense.

 

Edited by Rovim
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59 minutes ago, MYWIFEMYLIFE said:

Magnificent album. I love Robin and Bucket a lot there.

So many great/interesting contributions from those two. Basically, the “co-stars” of the album IMHO (which no doubt made it hard to promote/market since they were both gone by 2008). Some nice flourishes from Bumble here and there too. I remember a quote from Dizzy (right before the 2009-14 run I believe) talking about how Chinese is a great “guitar album”- and how that surprises people. Totally agree.

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I love Chinese Democracy. Missed the saga, but whispers is an epic adventure in and of itself. I just 'wore out' my cd copy and will be replacing it promptly.

Its all about a good stereo with CD - as if the album is in 5.1 almost. I had fantastic stereo with 5-6 distinct shelving frequencies (not sure the correct terminology?). But it meant that instead of just tweeter, sub and mids, there were 5-6 distinct speakers covering pockets of the mix. Its just gorgeous that way. 

I think its aged well save for some of the electro drums. But I'd agree with what others have highlighted, that it was already aged at the time of its release. But with that in the rear view mirror, as the album stands, I think its still fresh and vibrant. I think that it will be named dropped by producers in the future as a reference point of some of their own works. Actually to my ears theres a CD influence on the cinematic scope of the mix and master on Adeles most recent release. 

I once heard it said that the only way to become a Phish fan is to choose to become a Phish fan, lol, and in my heart of hearts I believe that similarly the only way to not like CD is to choose not to like it:smiley-confused2::o:lol:j/k

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18 hours ago, Towelie said:

Bumblefoot IS awesome.

with that much I agree, althoug I think he actually improved with GN'R. Abnormal, Little Brother Is Watching and a lot of his newer tracks seem to be influenced by his time in GN'R playing November Rain, TwaT and Estranged. I think even he acknowledged that in one of his interviews. To bad Axl couldn't keep him on board, would have loved seeing him with Slash, just to see what they could do.

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22 hours ago, Towelie said:

songs like Scraped and Riad sound like the kind of b-grade Nu-metal garbage you'd find on a Limp Bizkit album circa 2001.

I would like to know any example of songs from Limp Bizkit or any nu-metal band that sounds like Riad.

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1 hour ago, Billly B said:

Better has got better,  wish they would re-record it with the new intro. This I Love is great, just not a rock song.

I don't want to encourage them to spend any amount of time on re-recording anything that was already released, but dammit, I really would like a studio version of that new intro. 

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Wasn't it always dated?

If its any consolation "Contraband" has aged even worse.

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2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I don't want to encourage them to spend any amount of time on re-recording anything that was already released, but dammit, I really would like a studio version of that new intro. 

There was a fan made version that was really close on YouTube 3 years ago.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I don't want to encourage them to spend any amount of time on re-recording anything that was already released, but dammit, I really would like a studio version of that new intro. 

It's GNR we're talking about, so I'm not surprised they didn't release some sort of live EP halfway through the NITL tour. But how cool would it have been if they did, like, a mini live-era. NITL Live. Six tracks live, but remasters. "Better," "There was a Time," "Slither," etc. Whatever they wanted to put on it. 

Edited by GnR Chris
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They're missing out if they don't put out a blu ray of NITL. You know they filmed it all.

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11 hours ago, Towelie said:

Considering it is still widely considered GNRs greatest accomplishment and ranked as one of the greatest rock albums ever made, I'd say yes, AFD was timeless.

Which just goes to show that a dated sound means nothing.

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8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I think it's never been a matter of Axl being only into making different kinds of music than the rest of the band wanted. It's just been a matter of Axl always wanting to expand further than "traditional" hard rock. That doesn't mean that he doesn't like hard rock or that he hasn't been interested in doing hard rock as well. Speaking of currently, for example, yes, apparently he likes playing Wichita Lineman and CD songs (the latter being probably, to an extent, because of the novelty, to him, of Slash playing them). And at the same time he likes playing AC/DC, which is as pure and archetypical hard rock as it gets. And as far as AFD goes, the NuGnR setlists were always AFD heavy.

I think it's a misconception that Axl "has" to be either into one thing or into another. Another misconception is, in my opinion, that there was/is this black and white disagreement between what Axl and the rest of the band wanted. Duff, for example, was always open in doing different things; and even Slash has collaborated with people from much different musical backgrounds, although he hasn't seemed so open to branch out so much with his own bands.

I also think, based on what I've read, that Contraband is very close to what Axl was looking for in the mid-90s, as it has this "alt-rock" vibe.

This, and the last Duff solo album isn't hard rock too.

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Interesting discussion (I haven’t contributed in a while) and not a bad time to reconsider the album.

First off, I’ve invested so much in the album that I love it. Axl seemed to be the hungriest member to stick it out in the hope of creating a great record.

Admittedly, the overproduction over cooked ‘Cather’ but served ‘IRS’ well. Some other tunes seemed to remain unaffected by the thinkering. It’s an album that tries to update GNR with classic 90s rock. There isnt  any noughties, or noughteen equivalents. My favourites are ‘Better’, ‘Blues’, ‘TWAT’ & ‘Madagascar’

Steven wanted to party, Slash wanted to play, Izzy wanted to write and Duff control.

I believe Axl suceeded in his vision. I’m hopeful that that Axl will call the shots on the next album, and that Slash and Duff only be allowed add new material if it’s of their classic early 90s caliber. Otherwise embellishing the cd2 recordings works for me. 

The thing is I believe Axl wanted GNR to continue to make great music like Tool & Radiohead, but the others were too rich to care. 

I agree that ‘scraped’ is the weakest tune, Robin’s mid section rhythm guitar is ANIMAL!  Robin’s ‘This I Love’ solo elevates the time.

I’m aware that the fan base extends across millions of individuals. But that’s my view on the album.

That said Appetite is the jewel in the crown and I’m pleased to have a ‘Locked N’ Loaded’ box set, with pride of place at home.

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Furthermore, seeing Slash & Duff return to the band is a dream come true. Slash plays the fuck out of every tune. Duff brings the brilliant ‘Spaghetti Incident’ covers. My highlight was seeing Slash play ‘Estranged’ in New York, night one 2016.

Robin & Bucket were brilliant contributors! I was lucky to seem them in Pukelpop & London Arena.

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8 hours ago, AlterL said:

with that much I agree, althoug I think he actually improved with GN'R. Abnormal, Little Brother Is Watching and a lot of his newer tracks seem to be influenced by his time in GN'R playing November Rain, TwaT and Estranged. I think even he acknowledged that in one of his interviews. To bad Axl couldn't keep him on board, would have loved seeing him with Slash, just to see what they could do.

Ain't no way Slash would've shared lead guitar duties with a virtuoso like Ron. Fortus is one thing, but Bumblefoot and Buckethead? You can't have the "star of the show" (Slash) being upstaged in his own band.

Not that I'm saying Slash isn't a great player. He's THE guitarist for Guns N Roses and completly irreplaceable creatively. But live, he is fond of the old noodling wankfest, and Ron with his technical wizardry would only serve to highlight Slash's lack of technical ability in comparison.

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nothing can age well, when its not perfect from the start. 

AFD was perfect. The sound and production value of UYI is even better than AFD. Its absolutely top notch. TSI was still very good produced and mixed.

CD is a huge let down with regard to its production. Totally overproduced, horrible mixing, annoying Axl voice, bad vibes, no one take recordings, cheap pitman effects. It could have been a cool album with one take recordings, zero pitman, just bucket and robin and one good rock producer. and...i don't like the GnR Logo on it. Its an Axl Rose album.

 

 

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