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Towelie

Chinese Democracy hasn't aged well IMO

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On 08/08/2019 at 2:13 PM, AlterL said:

with that much I agree, althoug I think he actually improved with GN'R. Abnormal, Little Brother Is Watching and a lot of his newer tracks seem to be influenced by his time in GN'R playing November Rain, TwaT and Estranged. I think even he acknowledged that in one of his interviews. To bad Axl couldn't keep him on board, would have loved seeing him with Slash, just to see what they could do.

Totally agree with this.

Wasn't a few of the songs on Little Brother offered to g n r?

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2 minutes ago, Brownstone drum said:

Wasn't a few of the songs on Little Brother offered to g n r?

Apparently this one was originally intended as a GNR song... I could imagine Axl on the chorus but overall I don't think it's very 'GNR' sounding.

There was at least one other song that he offered to Axl but I don't remember what it was.

 

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9 hours ago, Brownstone drum said:

Totally agree with this.

Wasn't a few of the songs on Little Brother offered to g n r?

Argentina and some others If I recall correctly.

 

9 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Apparently this one was originally intended as a GNR song... I could imagine Axl on the chorus but overall I don't think it's very 'GNR' sounding.

There was at least one other song that he offered to Axl but I don't remember what it was.

 

well perhaps that is because it doesn't have the rest of the band on it, if this had Tommy, Richard and Axl on it, I'm sure it would have sounded more like GN'R.

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I think Bumble offered Simple Days from Abnormal to Axl, but not 100% sure.

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7 hours ago, AlterL said:

Argentina and some others If I recall correctly.

 

well perhaps that is because it doesn't have the rest of the band on it, if this had Tommy, Richard and Axl on it, I'm sure it would have sounded more like GN'R.

It would, Don't know who to pray to anymore I think was a possible offer to Axl.

He's rejected a lot of material!

All the Slash stuff for the first Snakepit album, I do believe some of that would have worked.

CD to me doesn't sound dated, possibly Shacklers but still love it.

I think the Illusions dated more quickly

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

Nicolas Cage said that Prostitute is 'incredible'. The One True God has spoken.

Someone should get Nicolas Cage to act in a new music film clip for Guns.

4 hours ago, Creed said:

this is so NOT gnr.

Tracii Guns is GNR. ;) :lol:

Edited by Live Like a Suicide

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4 hours ago, Brownstone drum said:

It would, Don't know who to pray to anymore I think was a possible offer to Axl.

He's rejected a lot of material!

All the Slash stuff for the first Snakepit album, I do believe some of that would have worked.

CD to me doesn't sound dated, possibly Shacklers but still love it.

I think the Illusions dated more quickly

honestly, DKWTPTA is my third favorite track on that record. One one side I sort of understand Axl, having many songs in various states of completation without being released must be taxing on his mind, add up new songs from Bumble, Ashba, Tommy and the others and it probably was to much for him. I would still love to hear him work on some of this tracks, specially anything that relates to Bumble and Bucket based material.

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Thought I'd give my critique on CD. Lets take a look at each song individually. This my opinion of course.

Chi Dem: What's this song about? Am I supposed to rock out with it or do my homework on the Chinese Government? It's kind of a dud with a few cool licks.

Shackler's: An obvious Buckethead influenced song. It's different, unique, industrial. A cool rocker but so contrasting to what the original GN'R did. I like it.

Better: The best song on CD. A true rock song. The lyrics, the riffs, the composition are truly amazing. Robin's guitar licks stand out substantially on this one.

Street of Dreams: Sounds like a early demo to me. Lyrics are deep and meaningful. Guitars are great too, although The Blues is Better especially in 2002.

If the World: Great song. Finally some Bass on this one. Sounds modern, a nice mix of guitars, piano and acoustics. Just a fun song without any deep meaning.

TWAT: Average song. It's just kind of "there". The Buckethead solo is amazing at the end, the saving grace for this song.

Catcher: Another average song. The Brian May solo added a uniqueness that I think missing. It's just Okay. Neither here nor there.

Scraped: Strange song. Axl's formidable lyrics about being unstoppable & determined are kind of lost on this mediocre composition.

Riad: Another demo sounding song. Axl's voice is rather high. It's different & slightly Industrial. The lyrics are lost on the average fan who doesn't know who Axl is referring to.

Sorry: Slow song. Kind of bluesy with a mixture of rock. Sebastian Bach adds something to it but not enough to make it good.

I.R.S. A mediocre song. A few cool lyrics about the IRS and FBI. It's Nothing special.

Madagascar: Good song, deep lyrics. Axl's scream of "Oh, I---- "  after the first verse is awesome. Should have left the movie quotes out and shortened that part.

This I love: A love letter of sorts. Shows off Axl's song writing skills for love songs. The ending coda could have been on a movie soundtrack it's so good.

Prostitute: Outstanding song. Lyrics are fantastic. It's a rocker mixed with emotion. It's poignant, inspiring and powerful all in one.

 

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45 minutes ago, AlterL said:

honestly, DKWTPTA is my third favorite track on that record. One one side I sort of understand Axl, having many songs in various states of completation without being released must be taxing on his mind, add up new songs from Bumble, Ashba, Tommy and the others and it probably was to much for him. I would still love to hear him work on some of this tracks, specially anything that relates to Bumble and Bucket based material.

Yes, would be a shame to lose any Ron , Bucket or Robin guitar on any future recordings, they did good on CD

If there's Slash on it I want it to be new material

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On 8/7/2019 at 10:58 PM, Towelie said:

People give Slash's solo work shit, especially SMKC, and sure, it isn't as sprawling or grand or ambitious as Chinese was, but I would argue that Slash has a far greater understanding of what the GNR sound truly is than Axl.

 

IMO it's because SLASH plays an instrument and, for the most part, AXL does not. I know that's overly simplifying, but it is truth.

Changing out a vocalist/front man is probably the most drastic and noticeable factor to the average fan. But in reality it does nothing to the sound of the actual band sans whatever writing the front man contributed. AXL, like IZZY, was quite instrumental in writing new material. However, much of his contributions were lyrics and whatever he came up with on the piano. Arguably his most important contribution to the debut album aside from his voice and lyrics was forcing SLASH to make something out of the Sweet Child riff. But it was still SLASH that came up with it and IZZY that put together the chords and arrangement.

I look at a band like Van Halen as a great example. They were different with each vocalist. But the guts of the sound of the band was always there despite the absences of DLR and Hagar. Because that sound is Eddie, Alex, and Michael Anthony.

AC/DC is another great example. Different, of course, with Bon Scott than with Brian Johnson but still just as popular because the actual musicians stayed the same for a long long time.

While GN'R would never be as popular or the same without AXL's voice and stage presence -- they'd still sound like GN'R, musically, with SLASH, IZZY, AXL and STEVEN manning all the instruments.

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Still love the album, feels like I still discover new things about it when I listen to it. Wish they would play more of it live, I think the renditions during the latest tour was pretty cool. 

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15 hours ago, Brownstone drum said:

Yes, would be a shame to lose any Ron , Bucket or Robin guitar on any future recordings, they did good on CD

If there's Slash on it I want it to be new material

I just hope that if they get replaced on anything is because Slash actually came up with something better rather than just "because he's Slash"

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21 hours ago, AlterL said:

I just hope that if they get replaced on anything is because Slash actually came up with something better rather than just "because he's Slash"

 

SLASH always comes up with something better "because he's SLASH". That's what makes him different and unique. He's a freaking living legend.

Edited by thunderram

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8 minutes ago, thunderram said:

 

SLASH always comes up with something better "because he's SLASH". That's what makes him different and unique. He's a freaking living legend.

Well, to be fair, he didn't come up with anything better on most of the CD songs he's performed live. He butchers TIL in particular.

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15 minutes ago, thunderram said:

 

SLASH always comes up with something better "because he's SLASH". That's what makes him different and unique. He's a freaking living legend.

just no... I mean, I love the guy, but not everything he does is gold... Specially not after hearing how he butchers Better and TIL. honestly I'm just not blind to his flaws, that would be like saying that Axl sounds good at every concert. Plus being a legend doesn't make him perfect, Jimmy page is probably an even bigger legend than Slash is, that doesn't mean that everything he plays will be good.

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8 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

SLASH always comes up with something better "because he's SLASH". That's what makes him different and unique. He's a freaking living legend.

In the studio he doesn't invests enough time developing his ideas imo and live he tends to overplay now. As others have already mentioned his versions of the Chinese material demonstrated that even Slash, as great as he is, doesn't automatically always comes up with better ideas just because he is Slash.

I like some of his interpretations of the material but if anything I appreciate even more the talent of Robin and Bucket.

I agree he's a living legend and I think he still got it and is capable of coming up with brilliant ideas in the studio and his improvisational skills are top notch. It's just to me it seems he relies too heavily on just noodling his way through a lead sometimes or extending a solo too much until it gets boring and ridiculous because it's so self indulgent and long as hell or loses direction cause it's too many notes being played.

If Slash is to replace and rerecord Bucket's and Robin's unreleased material which I think is highly likely, I hope he'll give enough of a fuck to deliver truly inspired work.

Edited by Rovim
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Slash just doesn't care about the songs, why on earth would he invest time on polishing songs from an album that he isnt even part of? Not to mention it is the album that broke up his band.

People that saw the SMKC tour on the other hand, says he is killing it, playing with joy and really seems to be into it.

Edited by default_
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42 minutes ago, default_ said:

Slash just doesn't care about the songs, why on earth would he invest time on polishing songs from an album that he isnt even part of? Not to mention it is the album that broke up his band.

People that saw the SMKC tour on the other hand, says he is killing it, playing with joy and really seems to be into it.

With respect, how do you know Slash doesn't care about the songs? he seems to be into it imo and he praised the songs in interviews. Perhaps he's just too lazy to take the time to listen and work on it off stage and he just prefers to come up with his own interpretations by way of improvising? besides, it's not just Chinese tunes. He never bothered to learn how to properly play Safari Inn live as well. It's not polishing, it's doing the material justice.

"Guns N’ Roses guitarist Slash explained his approach to playing songs from the 2008 album Chinese Democracy, which was recorded and released while he was out of the band. The set list of their Not in This Lifetime tour has included eight of that LP’s 14 tracks, with the title number, “Better” and “This I Love” having been played most.

“It was cool,” Slash told Eddie Trunk in a wide-ranging interview. “There’s some great songs on that record, so I just sort of adapted my own way of playing them and just made them more my own so I felt more comfortable. And they just kick ass.”

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-chinese-democracy-songs/

 

 

Edited by Rovim
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how can one talk about ChD aging when the songwriting process for this record started in mid-90s?

so in 2008 you got an album which already had "old" songs... back then it couldn't be treated as "new" album, let alone, now...

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The Bumble tunes offered for the next GNR record, that we hear on his 2015 solo record are not good. Despite Bumble talking them up in 2013. He is a great arranger and player, but no writer. Del James once referred to him as a human iPod.

At least Ashba has the advantage of the public not hearing his intended contribution, giving it a little mythical status. The two live solos written by Ashba are very Dave Gilmour and maybe more suitable for GNR (considering Sorry).

I was hugely disappointed by Duff & Slash’s post GNR output and I hope their contribution to the next record serves the songs and performance well. Axl has amazed a lot of material that has had a chance to breathe. If Slash and Duff bring out a new ‘Coma’ that would be brilliant rather than a meat and potatoes dirge like ‘fall to pieces’.

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7 hours ago, DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz said:

The Bumble tunes offered for the next GNR record, that we hear on his 2015 solo record are not good. Despite Bumble talking them up in 2013. He is a great arranger and player, but no writer. Del James once referred to him as a human iPod.

At least Ashba has the advantage of the public not hearing his intended contribution, giving it a little mythical status. The two live solos written by Ashba are very Dave Gilmour and maybe more suitable for GNR (considering Sorry).

I was hugely disappointed by Duff & Slash’s post GNR output and I hope their contribution to the next record serves the songs and performance well. Axl has amazed a lot of material that has had a chance to breathe. If Slash and Duff bring out a new ‘Coma’ that would be brilliant rather than a meat and potatoes dirge like ‘fall to pieces’.

Lol, there is absolutely nothing Gilmour-like about anything DJ Ashba has ever played. 

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