Who was/is a "member" of Guns N' Roses and who is/was a hired hand?

[jamillos]

2 hours ago, jamillos said:

But we do have the marks, we just call them differently:

Mark 1: Pre-AfD aka the Tracii era 
Mark 2: AfD aka the treasure trove 
Mark 3: UYI 1 aka AfD sans Steven goes chorus (1991)
Mark 4: UYI 2 aka it’s not the real GN’R, part I. (1992+) 
Mark 5: 2000 intentions aka nobody knows what the fuck is going on (97–2001)
Mark 6: CD 1 aka this even has nothing to do with GN’R (02–08)
Mark 7: CD 2 aka no Tuesdays left / ChinDem tours 4ever (2009+)
Mark 8: The holy trinity aka it’s not the real GN’R, part II. 

Just let me make clear that I was being sarcastic here, and while AfD is indeed the holy era etc., it was 1992 when I became a fan, and I think it was also 1992 when they were on the top, so that will always remain my personal peak (especially that Axl’s 92 voice). I’ve never had a problem with Izzy not being there, the same way I’ve never had a problem with Pink Floyd led solely by Gilmour, with Waters gone. 
Just a side note. 

[Sydney Fan]

2 hours ago, jamillos said:

But we do have the marks, we just call them differently:

Mark 1: Pre-AfD aka the Tracii era 
Mark 2: AfD aka the treasure trove 
Mark 3: UYI 1 aka AfD sans Steven goes chorus, late starts, riots  (1991)
Mark 4: UYI 2 aka it’s not the real GN’R with backup horn singers and axls multiple wardrobe  elton john/freddie mercury phase, part I. (1992+) 
Mark 5: 2000 intentions aka nobody knows what the fuck is going on (94–2001)
Mark 6: CD 1 aka this even has nothing to do with GN’R "musical mid life crisis/circus phase" (02–06)
Mark 7: CD 2 aka no Tuesdays left / ChinDem tours 4ever/axls emo phase with ashba " in terms of new music we need to look seriuosly in that regard"(2006+)
Mark 8: The holy trinity aka it’s not the real GN’R with only 3 original members and no izzy, part II. 

Ive inserted some extra words and change of dates.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sydney Fan

[jacdaniel]

Technically, everyone outside of Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven are hired hands. 

But back in the day, they were a full time active band. They toured, released music/content, videos, award shows, photoshoots, etc etc 

Now they don’t. So the hired hands are literally only touring members. 

[guitarpatch]

Pre AFD

AFD Era

Illusion Album era - Izzy and Sorum 

Illusion Tour Era - Gilby and the stage show 

Post UYI era - Snakepit, Vampire, and managing the brand 

2000 Intentions era - Stinson, Huge Finck and Freese. Songwriting and the original album concept

Buckethead/Finck/Brain era - 2001/02 tour and re-recording the album

CD album era - Bumblefoot and Finck/Fortus and the build up to the release 

CD Tour era - Post release with Ashba 

Big 3 Reunion era - Where we are today 

Truth is there are a ton of members that have come and gone. The one era that everyone associates as the original only existed for a short time. It all sort of circles around the few that actually control what’s going on.

Technically they all get hired to play so the premise is kind of moot. That’s called being a working musician. They’re all hired hands. How they divide the $ is the difference maker. Who makes those decisions? 

Edited August 21, 2019 by guitarpatch

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Technically, everyone outside of Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven are hired hands. 

But back in the day, they were a full time active band. They toured, released music/content, videos, award shows, photoshoots, etc etc 

Now they don’t. So the hired hands are literally only touring members. 

It's worth noting that post AFD the joint band photos became less and less.

I think the first UYI lineup (with Izzy) did all in all two photo shoots as a band (the "Dead!" one that was featured in the albums and the one for the September 1991 Rolling Stone issue).

The second UYI lineup (with Gilby) didn't do any photo shoot together, if I'm not mistaken. Separate pictures of the members were featured in the 1992 and 1993 tour programs.

I think that was the case in the pre-CD era, too, but maybe I'm wrong. There is a band picture from the post-CD NuGnR lineup.

The current band has released two band photos, I think.

[©GnrPersia]

Guns N' Roses Are:

Axl Rose

Tommy Stinson

Robin Finck

Buckethead

Richard Fortus

Dizzy Reed

Chris "Towelman" Pitman

Bryan "Brain" Mantia

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by ©GnrPersia

[Amaya]

  Members is a nice way to say hired hands.                                                        The Big 3 are GnR legal members, and owners of their company. Everyone hired by Axl  before( Frank etc.) ,  The Big3 decided to tour with are not legal members, but are touring employees, and members in name as to not insult them by calling them hired hands, staff,  or employees.                                           Axl, Slash, and Duff met each others homes whatever and discussed what they wanted to do with their company. They are personal like that with each other. No way would Missy show up at Slash and Meegan' s  house to talk business with him about his company.  Okay.                                                                                          No Axl, no GnR. No Slash, no GnR. Duff is a member because he never sold, his business interests,  fans like him, he is close to Slash, diplomat in bringing the 2 main heads together, and he has stage presence. The B3 discuss and decide on things.  No way do they ask Ms. M what she thinks.  Lol. Nor do they ask Mr..F or  Mr.R their thoughts on set lists, tour dates, locations, etc. I say this not to be insulting to them . I apologize if I insulted them.  8 - 15  people , TB, Del, Dizzy, cannot run that business. The Big3 do. Axl 's personal camp of TB, Del, Dizzy can voice to him their thoughts,  I bet they do, but Axl treads nicely, friendly to Slash and Duff and does not push his camp's opinions on Slash, Duff.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Amaya
Edited. Don't assign nicknames to GnR staff.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Amaya said:

...No way do they ask Missy what she thinks.  Lol. Nor do they ask Frankie or  Ritchie their thoughts on set lists, tour dates, locations, etc. I say this not to be insulting to them . I apologize if I insulted them....

You're not trying to insult them, yet you're referring to them by nick names that no one has ever called them?

[username]

Why are you guys debating shit that can be looked up on wikipedia? Lineups I mean. 

As for how it "feels"....

Pre-AFD doesn't matter.

AFD/Lies was a band of brothers, disfunctional as it might have been.

UYI era was a mess, Izzy quit, Gilby got hired, and then there's all the extras in (mostly) 92. This is where the brotherhood crumbled. 

1994-2000 is irrelevant because nothing really happened except that everybody left.

2001-2002 was an experiment that failed (sadly).

2003-2005 are irrelevant because nothing happened except for people quitting.

2006-2008 there was still some hope.

2009-2015 were the dark years, hired band on autopilot.

2016-present is the reunion era which has failed to produce anything other than nostalgia excitement for the first 2 years.

 

Everybody that joined or re-joined after 1990 is realistically a hired hand. I really want to believe that Axl, Slash and Duff are equals in reunion times, but I'm having a hard time doing so. And realistically anybody who isn't Axl, Slash or Duff is replacable as hell. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by username

[Sydney Fan]

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

It's worth noting that post AFD the joint band photos became less and less.

I think the first UYI lineup (with Izzy) did all in all two photo shoots as a band (the "Dead!" one that was featured in the albums and the one for the September 1991 Rolling Stone issue).

The second UYI lineup (with Gilby) didn't do any photo shoot together, if I'm not mistaken. Separate pictures of the members were featured in the 1992 and 1993 tour programs.

I think that was the case in the pre-CD era, too, but maybe I'm wrong. There is a band picture from the post-CD NuGnR lineup.

The current band has released two band photos, I think.

With gilby he was in the spaghetti incident cd inlet photos but as a separate photo not as a band unfortunately.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sydney Fan

[shotsfired cro]

1 hour ago, username said:

Why are you guys debating shit that can be looked up on wikipedia? Lineups I mean. 

As for how it "feels"....

Pre-AFD doesn't matter.

AFD/Lies was a band of brothers, disfunctional as it might have been.

UYI era was a mess, Izzy quit, Gilby got hired, and then there's all the extras in (mostly) 92. This is where the brotherhood crumbled. 

1994-2000 is irrelevant because nothing really happened except that everybody left.

2001-2002 was an experiment that failed (sadly).

2003-2005 are irrelevant because nothing happened except for people quitting.

2006-2008 there was still some hope.

2009-2015 were the dark years, hired band on autopilot.

2016-present is the reunion era which has failed to produce anything other than nostalgia excitement for the first 2 years.

 

Everybody that joined or re-joined after 1990 is realistically a hired hand. I really want to believe that Axl, Slash and Duff are equals in reunion times, but I'm having a hard time doing so. And realistically anybody who isn't Axl, Slash or Duff is replacable as hell. 

Actually not. Not really.

Of course Axl/Slash/Duff are not equals fo they didn't buy equal shares of Izzy's cut.

When we talk about 'band' - it doesn't come down to % cuts, but who is considered as band member by band/fans.

Axl/Slash/Duff had bonds to Gilby/Matt and somewhat Dizzy.  They spoke of them as equals, made videos with them visable, credite them under GNR moniker, placed them on the merch...

None of that happens witzh 'hired hands'.  There are guys playing bass or rhythm guitar in Bon Jovi - you don't hear from them, there are guys playing in Green Day for 20 years - you don't hear of them or see them credited anywhere.

So I would say Ax/Slash/Duff/Matt/Gilby/Dizzwald were are a band, less 'hired hands'.

When it comes to '92 it was 6 + big band.  Ypu can't call Teddy, horns, Tracy and Robert hired hands - cause that is not so. They were part of the tour and clearly not part of the band.  Rolling Stones have 20 people on stage every tour, but they are not hired hands.  Bruce Springsteen has like 30 people but they are not hired hands.  Those people are paid to tour and play their own parts to enrich the sound of the band, not paid much less to play the parts of the original member that left for much less.

Also the way Ax/Slash/Duff spoke of Matt and Gilby in the 90's was pretty much as members,  Bon Jovi, Green Day...never mention the guys who are hired.

[shotsfired cro]

Bottom line - Ax is probably a hired hand of Beta by now who probably owns more GN_R than anyone else...

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by shotsfired cro

[Amaya]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

You're not trying to insult them, yet you're referring to them by nick names that no one has ever called them?

That is true.  I will go back and edit  nicknames and spell out their real names. I did not like saying hired hands. Staff, touring musicians,  or employees sound  better.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Amaya
Mr. Ms.

[kiwiguns]

i am not sure what the issue is. All bands and their members as a bussines, would have in place some form of contract and most band members would be deemed employees or business partners. This belief that these guys are playing together for fun as they did in 1986 or by signing a record contract on a napkin are long gone. It is the best way to protect yourself from any litigation or to protect your own interests. 

I would think most of us have employment contracts in place as you have your legal rights protected as employees.

if you are like me, who own a bussines in a partnership, you would have an agreement or contract in place with your partners or shareholders.

it does not matter in todays world who specifically  is a partner or employee. 

All currently involved, would be smart enough to have these structures in place.

You would be nuts in this day and age , to not be protecting yourself or your business.

Edited August 22, 2019 by kiwiguns

[BadApples87]

Axl, Slash, Duff are GNR members.

The other people are "additional musicians".

Izzy and Steven are the only other players that had member status, but don't anymore.

[Popcorn crew]

The five people tattooed on Axl hand.

Plus S. Bach (I think he's been with GnR longer than anybody else even Axl).

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Axl/Slash/Duff (Current Biz & Performance Members)*

Dizzy/Richard/Frank/Melissa (Current Performance Members)

Steven/Izzy (ex Biz & Performance Members)

Everyone else (Ex Performance Members)

Ultimately, everyone a “Member” of some rank. FWIW- the Appetite For Democracy bd /dvd booklet has a “Guns N’ Roses is” page with all the members at that time (Dj, Bumble, Tommy, etc.) listed...

*Even if Slash and Duff are “hired” into Axl’s “Guns N’ Roses” (no idea if true)- I assume they still have very lucrative Partnership relationship relative to classic merch/etc. they always had, plus a negotiated share of the increased gate, etc. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[Amaya]

Current  performance members. I like that. That is a better term. The last 3 post, well said . 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Amaya

[shotsfired cro]

11 hours ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

Axl/Slash/Duff (Current Biz & Performance Members)*

Dizzy/Richard/Frank/Melissa (Current Performance Members)

Izzy/Steven (ex Biz & Performance Members)

Everyone else (Ex Performance Members)

Ultimately, everyone a “Member” of some rank. FWIW- the Appetite For Democracy bd /dvd booklet has a “Guns N’ Roses is” page with all the members at that time (Dj, Bumble, Tommy, etc.) listed...

*Even if Slash and Duff are “hired” into Axl’s “Guns N’ Roses” (no idea if true)- I assume they still have very lucrative Partnership relationship relative to classic merch/etc. they always had, plus a negotiated share of the increased gate, etc. 

there are so many contracts and under contracts in GNR world - it is not even close to sanity.

For all I know Axl owns something, Slash in all this time including the years he was out, ownes merch and logo rights, Duff owns something and belive it or not, despite him leaving and selling his share - I think even Iz owns to this day rights to something.

Then there are things 'partnership' owns rights to...it is a mess.  not sure which sicko went into all this but no band in the world functions on the basis on so many micro contracts,  It was absolutely ment to burst even if Axl was in perfect mental state.

Edited August 22, 2019 by shotsfired cro