Amazon Fires

[AtariLegend]

Do the South Americans on the board support this?

Twitter/social media is filled with supposedly Brazilian speaking right wing basketcases saying it's fake news and nothing to do with the world anyway?

Is "needing oxygen to breathe" a new favorite of those on the right now?

I don't have any kids, but I'd be horrified about what the world would look like by the time they were middle aged if I did. This seems to be the new madness of the 21st century afted the world wars of the last century.

The us president should be doing something about this too instead of spending his days comparing himself to Jesus on twitter. The EU should be applying sanctions.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by AtariLegend

[Chewbacca]

The fires are happening. Like they do every year.

Is it really record breaking? No.

Some of these fires may also have criminal origins.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/nasa-amazon-fires-below-average/

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil

They have found around 75000-72000 points of fire in amazonia this time around. It is not even a record for this decade.

Here is an old article (in Brazilian portuguese, sorry) from 2010 showing we had 90000 of those back then:

http://g1.globo.com/brasil/noticia/2010/08/cresce-numero-de-focos-de-incendio-no-brasil.html

("Mil" in portuguese means thousand not a million, therefore 90 mil means 90000).

[rendestroi95]

On 23/08/2019 at 7:37 PM, AtariLegend said:

Do the South Americans on the board support this?

Twitter/social media is filled with supposedly Brazilian speaking right wing basketcases saying it's fake news and nothing to do with the world anyway?

Is "needing oxygen to breathe" a new favorite of those on the right now?

I don't have any kids, but I'd be horrified about what the world would look like by the time they were middle aged if I did. This seems to be the new madness of the 21st century afted the world wars of the last century.

The us president should be doing something about this too instead of spending his days comparing himself to Jesus on twitter. The EU should be applying sanctions.

 

You really should do some research before posting about something you know nothing about...

Every year we have something like a "dry season" and that causes wildfires, BUT, now the oposition are using the fire to blame the president (????).

And of course, the twitter "antifa" retards started some stupid hashtag, with a lot of fake/old pictures, it went viral because, you know, it's so cool to post on social media that you care about the enviroment (even if you don't care at all) and that's it, we have a global catastrophe that isn't even real lmao

 

About sanctions, go ahead, it's like applying sanctions because of a hurricane

Edited August 25, 2019 by rendestroi95

[patolea10]

13 minutes ago, rendestroi95 said:

You really should do some research before posting about something you know nothing about...

Every year we have something like a "dry season" and that causes wildfires, BUT, now the oposition are using the fire to blame the president (????).

And of course, the twitter "antifa" retards started some stupid hashtag, with a lot of fake/old pictures, it went viral because, you know, it's so cool to post on social media that you care about the enviroment (even if you don't care at all) and that's it, we have a global catastrophe isn't even real lmao

 

About sanctions, go ahead, it's like applying sanctions because of a hurricane

we blame our president due to his anti enviroment policy. i mean he is already misegenous and racist, what it takes not to believe global warming and all the stuff that comes with it?

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by patolea10
wrongquestion mark

[rendestroi95]

47 minutes ago, patolea10 said:

we blame our president due to his anti enviroment policy. i mean he is already misegenous and racist, what it takes not to believe global warming and all the stuff that comes with it?

 

There's no anti enviroment policy, so there's no reason to blame the president. About the false accusations, they're just that: false accusations. We get it, everyone that isn't a braindead leftist is a "misogynist, racist, nazi, blah blah blah" yea right

Edited August 24, 2019 by rendestroi95

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

The fires are happening. Like they do every year.

Is it really record breaking? No.

I dunno. According to your own institute for space science (I don't know the proper name) there's been an increase of 83 % since last year. 

And since Bolsonaro came to power the budget of your environmental agency has been cut with 24 %. 

[DieselDaisy]

I am quite sure Greta will be going in your direction, Brazilians, quite soon to deliver some much needed sanctimony.

[Lio]

22 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I dunno. According to your own institute for space science (I don't know the proper name) there's been an increase of 83 % since last year. 

And since Bolsonaro came to power the budget of your environmental agency has been cut with 24 %. 

Apparently that isn't accurate. Or maybe it is, but the numbers aren't easy to interpret. Fire counts aren't just numbers of fires and fires are registered more than once by the satellites. Moreover, you can't see what's being burnt without comparing older pictures. It could be old farmland. It would take months to interpret and analyze all that.

And in 2016, under Rousseff, it was worse than it is now.

I'm not saying this doesn't alarm or worry me, but wrong interpretations of numbers and the usage of old pictures that have nothing at all to do with the situation in Brazil today, do the case (and the earth) more harm than good. It makes the west look like a hypocrite bunch that just has a bone to pick with Bolsonaro. Especially since it's in the news now far more than when they had a leftwing government and the situation was possibly just as bad or worse.

It seems like we find the whole situation more threatening now, while it has been threatening for many, many decades.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Lio said:

Apparently that isn't accurate. Or maybe it is, but the numbers aren't easy to interpret. Fire counts aren't just numbers of fires and fires are registered more than once by the satellites. Moreover, you can't see what's being burnt without comparing older pictures. It could be old farmland. It would take months to interpret and analyze all that.

And in 2016, under Rousseff, it was worse than it is now.

I'm not saying this doesn't alarm or worry me, but wrong interpretations of numbers and the usage of old pictures that have nothing at all to do with the situation in Brazil today, do the case (and the earth) more harm than good. It makes the west look like a hypocrite bunch that just has a bone to pick with Bolsonaro. Especially since it's in the news now far more than when they had a leftwing government and the situation was possibly just as bad or worse.

It seems like we find the whole situation more threatening now, while it has been threatening for many, many decades.

I have no idea, but incidentally read in my morning paper that the number of fires had increased by 86 % since last year. 

Bolsonaro is being targeted, not because he goes round and starts the fires, but because he won on a platform of disregard for the environment and hence he is less likely to want to do something about it. 

[DieselDaisy]

It might be a good thing if the Amazon burns as then the Brazilians, a Catholic nation, can build a load of cathedral cities among the debris. New vistas of worship and papal religiosity can be opened up where once stood a bunch of pointless trees.

Spoiler

See if he takes the bait haha

 

[soon]

Yes, this is the highest rate of fires since records began in 2013. An 83% increase over the same period in 2018.

Yes Brazilian Amazon deforestation has been an issue over the years. https://www.alternet.org/2017/10/amazon-deforestation-linked-mcdonalds-other-retail-food-giants/

And McDonalds has been raised in connection to beef production and deforestation earlier in the aughts as well.

The fact that its an ongoing issue doesnt absolve Bolsanaro, though. He's received his mandate from his anti-environmental protection campaign platform. In fact it being an ongoing issue, and it being so late in the game of the climate crisis, does in itself put that fash in the hot seat (no pun intended). He needs to act to protect the amazon. As has been correctly stated he's made cuts to related budgets including the 24% Cut to the environmental agency. His clearly stated motivation is to open the region's forrest and lands for business.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by soon

[soon]

Amazon burning: Brazil reports record forest fires

August 20, 2019 / 1:15 PM / 3 days ago, Lisandra Paraguass

 

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Wildfires raging in the Amazon rainforest have hit a record number this year, with 72,843 fires detected so far by Brazil’s space research centre INPE, as concerns grow over right-wing President Jair Bolsonaro’s environmental policy.

The surge marks an 83% increase over the same period of 2018, the agency said on Tuesday, and is the highest since records began in 2013.

Since Thursday, INPE said satellite images spotted 9,507 new forest fires in the country, mostly in the Amazon basin, home to the world’s largest tropical forest seen as vital to countering global warming.

 

Wildfires have increased in Mato Grosso and Para, two states where Brazil’s agricultural frontier has pushed into the Amazon basin and spurred deforestation. Wildfires are common in the dry season, but are also deliberately set by farmers illegally deforesting land for cattle ranching.

The unprecedented surge in wildfires has occurred since Bolsonaro took office in January vowing to develop the Amazon region for farming and mining, ignoring international concern over increased deforestation.

Asked about the spread of uncontrolled fires, Bolsonaro brushed off criticism, saying it was the time of the year of the “queimada” or burn, when farmers use fire to clear land.

“I used to be called Captain Chainsaw. Now I am Nero, setting the Amazon aflame. But it is the season of the queimada,” he told reporters.

Space agency INPE, however, said the large number of wildfires could not be attributed to the dry season or natural phenomena alone.

“There is nothing abnormal about the climate this year or the rainfall in the Amazon region, which is just a little below average,” said INPE researcher Alberto Setzer.

 

People frequently blame the dry season for the wildfires in the Amazon, but that is not quite accurate, he said.

“The dry season creates the favourable conditions for the use and spread of fire, but starting a fire is the work of humans, either deliberately or by accident,” Setzer said.

Bolsonaro recently fired the director of INPE after he criticized agency statistics showing an increase in deforestation in Brazil, saying they were inaccurate.

“I am waiting for the next set of numbers, that will not be made up numbers. If they are alarming, I will take notice of them in front of you,” he told reporters. 

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brazil-environment-wildfires/amazon-burning-brazil-reports-record-forest-fires-idUKKCN1VA1U4 

Edited August 24, 2019 by soon

[soon]

Great article with citations hyperlinked on the site. Includes these two documents:

1- Document wherein a Brazilian Governor in the region of the Amazon forest secures the Washington DC lobbyists Intermerica Group https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6319703-6687-Exhibit-AB-20190605-1.html

2- A Disclosure filing from Intermerica on its work for Governor Lima https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6320782-6687-Short-Form-20190605-8.html

***********************

GOP Lobbyists Help Brazil Recruit U.S. Companies to Exploit the Amazon

Lee Fang, August 23 2019, 1:43 p.m.

 

This summer, fires are being used to clear wide swaths of the Amazon at an unprecedented rate. One-fifth of the Amazon has already been destroyed in the past 50 years; further industrialization of the rainforest risks destroying another fifth, a loss that would be catastrophic for the global ecosystem.

The disaster is widely blamed on interests seeking to clear the world’s largest rainforest for cattle ranching, mining, and export-focused agribusiness. Documents reveal that those interests are being pushed in the U.S. by Republican lobbyists, friendly with President Donald Trump’s administration, who entered into talks with the Brazilian government to promote corporate investment in the Amazon.

The crisis in the Amazon comes as Brazil is now governed by an administration openly hostile to environmental concerns and Indigenous communities. President Jair Bolsonaro, a former Army captain once viewed as a fringe figure in Brazilian politics, has been referred to himself as “Captain Chainsaw” for his drive to promote logging and agribusiness in the Amazon.

Shortly after taking office in January, Bolsonaro slashed funding for Brazil’s main environmental agency by 24 percent. And this week, after a report by Brazil’s space research center revealed that fires in the Amazon are up 83% this year, Bolsonaro blamed the fires on international NGOs rather than his own anti-environmental policies.

 

Meanwhile, a member of the Brazilian government has contracted with Washington lobbyists to continue selling land and destroying the forest.

In June, Wilson Lima, the governor of the state of Amazonas, a northwestern province in Brazil that governs approximately a third of the Amazon, including the epicenter of the current forest fire crisis, began work with the Interamerica Group, a Washington, D.C.–based lobbying firm founded by Jerry Pierce Jr. Kellen Felix, a Brazilian national and vice president at Interamerica Group, is also listed in a disclosure filing for work with the state of Amazonas. Lima, elected last year, is a member of PSC, a conservative party affiliated with the Assembly of God, a rapidly growing Pentecostal church in Brazil.

The initial filings, disclosed under the Foreign Agents Registration Act through the Department of Justice, which regulates foreign lobbying, show that Pierce was tapped to represent Lima’s government in meetings with federal agencies and Congress.

The Interamerica Group has also already filed an informational packet assembled for U.S. companies on behalf of the Brazilian governor, promoting the Amazon region for its development potential. The packet lists mining, agribusiness, and the “Gas Chemical Industry” as “Opportunities” for American businesses — among the “Challenges” for these potential businesses is to “Ensure Forest Conservation.”

 

In response to an inquiry from The Intercept, Pierce said that a final contract has not been signed. “Unfortunately the state of Amazon decided to hold off on contracting our firm for an indefinite period. Perhaps it will revisited in 2020,” Pierce wrote. He did not respond to a question about why his firm was already producing communications on behalf of the Lima government.

Pierce has written extensively on how both Trump and Bolsonaro are a boon for increased American business in Brazil. “Under a President Trump,” Pierce wrote in 2017 blog post on his company’s website, Brazil stands to become “a world leader in industries such as agribusiness, mining, banking, and aviation.” In more recent posts, Pierce celebrates the rise of right-wing Bolsonaro, declaring, “Donald Trump paved the way for a Bolsonaro victory.”

Pierce also previously served as an official at the Department of Housing and Urban Development during the administration of George H.W. Bush, and was a prominent fundraiser for President George W. Bush. Under George W. Bush, he achieved “Pioneer” status, an accolade given to supporters who raised at least $100,000 for Bush’s campaigns. In 2009, Pierce pleaded guilty to making illegal “conduit contributions,” a term that refers to campaign contributions made under another person’s name. He served three years probation.

Images on social media show Pierce, Felix, and other Interamerica Group officials appearing, in Pierce’s description, with members of President Donald Trump’s administration and at conservative movement events, including the CPAC convention and with Turning Point USA.

 

Lima is not the only regional official to forge ties with Trump-friendly politicians.

The Intercept previously reported that Lima’s predecessor, Gov. Amazonino Mendes, signed a controversial $1.6 million contract with Giuliani Safety & Security, a consulting firm affiliated with Rudy Giuliani, now a lawyer for Trump. The state of Amazonas has struggled with persistent poverty, drug smuggling, and crime — problems Mendes promised to solve through the contract with Giuliani’s firm.

The discussions with the Interamerica Group are among many American ties to business expansion into the Amazon. In April, the Brazil-American Chamber of Commerce, a trade group representing major banking and commodity interests, held an event on how U.S. investors can take advantage of Brazilian agribusiness in the current political climate.

 

https://theintercept.com/2019/08/23/gop-lobbyists-help-brazil-recruit-u-s-companies-to-exploit-the-amazon/ (many citations hyperlinked in the article on the site)

Edited August 24, 2019 by soon

[Chewbacca]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I dunno. According to your own institute for space science (I don't know the proper name) there's been an increase of 83 % since last year. 

And since Bolsonaro came to power the budget of your environmental agency has been cut with 24 %. 

Yeah, since LAST year. If you looked at the last link I gave you, you would see 2010 had it worse with 90000 queimadas, which accounted for a 500% (FIVE HUNDRED) increase compared to the previous year, 2009.

 

This was during Lula's term, BTW.

That budget cut actually hit international NGO's that are now rioting over the easy money they lost, money that came from our taxes, BTW. "Non govermental" my ass.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Chewbacca

[SoulMonster]

17 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, since LAST year. If you looked at the last link I gave you, you would see 2010 had it worse with 90000 queimadas, which accounted for a 500% (FIVE HUNDRED) increase compared to the previous year, 2009.

 

This was during Lula's term, BTW.

That budget cut actually hit international NGO's that are now rioting over the easy money they lost, money that came from our taxes, BTW. "Non govermental" my ass.

In other words, your problem extends back. 

But still, not likely Bolsonaro will be the one to fix it. 

[soon]

1- Brazil has its own space agency, INPE, who has been monitoring the Amazon since the 80's under various oversight. I believe the most recent being the AMZ(?) and the most recent methodology seems to have been put in place in 2013 (according to Reuters reporting).

2- Bolsonaro fired the Department lead for this years report. The report conducted by scientists observing via satellite.  The report correctly states that the fires are up 83% one year since Bolsanaro took office...

3- That is why Bolsanaro drones will cite figures from anyone but their own scientist satellite observations 

4- This means that the Brazilian right is intentionally and knowingly talking across data sets.

5- "Quinmadas" are fires intentionally set by farmers to clear land. Brazil is suffering both intentionally set and unintentionally set fires and of course also naturally occurring forrest fires. And doing so with 3/4s of last years budget.

6- Human caused fires - theres no figures on intent at this stage - are unsurprisingly on the rise since Bolsonaro's election last year given that he ran on a promise to open up the Amazon to business exploit. Its all working perfectly in lock stop if one knows what to look for.

7- Documents prove that the Govt of Brazil has hired DC lobbyists to attract business to the Amazon region. The campaign pledge has become action.

[Chewbacca]

3 hours ago, soon said:

1- Brazil has its own space agency, INPE, who has been monitoring the Amazon since the 80's under various oversight. I believe the most recent being the AMZ(?) and the most recent methodology seems to have been put in place in 2013 (according to Reuters reporting).

2- Bolsonaro fired the Department lead for this years report. The report conducted by scientists observing via satellite.  The report correctly states that the fires are up 83% one year since Bolsanaro took office...

3- That is why Bolsanaro drones will cite figures from anyone but their own scientist satellite observations 

4- This means that the Brazilian right is intentionally and knowingly talking across data sets.

5- "Quinmadas" are fires intentionally set by farmers to clear land. Brazil is suffering both intentionally set and unintentionally set fires and of course also naturally occurring forrest fires. And doing so with 3/4s of last years budget.

6- Human caused fires - theres no figures on intent at this stage - are unsurprisingly on the rise since Bolsonaro's election last year given that he ran on a promise to open up the Amazon to business exploit. Its all working perfectly in lock stop if one knows what to look for.

7- Documents prove that the Govt of Brazil has hired DC lobbyists to attract business to the Amazon region. The campaign pledge has become action.

Huh... no. That's not what INPE has stated. There was a 83% increase since 2013, when they started monitoring (which is a very little time frame, hence NASA's data is that relevant), Which makes it around a 10% increase from Dilma's last year on govt, the previous record owner and it is nowhere near 2010's 500% increase from 2009. It is also nowhere near previous decades also, when we started advancing towards the north. We're not ignoring it, the 83% increase goes just right with what NASA said. We are using NASA as well in this case because they have a database that comprises a much larger timeframe and they show it is nothing special really.

Yes, Bolsonaro is trying to bring companies to the area, so they can invest on it. That's why the north region voted for him to begin with. They were pretty much forgotten by the left, living in misery. They don't have sewage and some of the people need to get a boat or swim thru rivers to get access to schools, health services and to work. They want better life conditions and transportation and Bolsonaro already started working on the North-south railroad, which will also include the transamazonian railroad. Bringing foreign capital is the best solution considering the leftists left this country broke and made Brazil a junk investment. You want us to stay a miserable third world country forever?

It's "queimadas" not "quinmadas". "Queimada" means burn or burned, in this case it is used to describe any form of fire, be it criminal or natural wild fire. You got that wrong also.

Seriously, dude these fires happen every year, especially on these dry months. If you check that last link on my first post you'll see it from august 2010.

It doesn't help you that mainstream media is shitting out 30 years old pics from amazônia, even celebrities are guilty of that, such as Jaden Smith.

[Chewbacca]

Also, we have another agency that is charged of protecting our enviroment, IBAMA. According to their report this fire ain't nothing out of ordinary and ambiental crimes have decreased noticeably this year.

[soon]

8 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Huh... no. That's not what INPE has stated. There was a 83% increase since 2013, when they started monitoring (which is a very little time frame, hence NASA's data is that relevant), Which makes it around a 10% increase from Dilma's last year on govt, the previous record owner and it is nowhere near 2010's 500% increase from 2009.

You already conceded this point  Yes, like you acknowledge, its 83% compared to this time last year. smh.

12 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I dunno. According to your own institute for space science (I don't know the proper name) there's been an increase of 83 % since last year. 

And since Bolsonaro came to power the budget of your environmental agency has been cut with 24 %. 

 

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, since LAST year. If you looked at the last link I gave you, you would see 2010 had it worse with 90000 queimadas, which accounted for a 500% (FIVE HUNDRED) increase compared to the previous year, 2009.

 

 

[Chewbacca]

22 minutes ago, soon said:

You already conceded this point  Yes, like you acknowledge, its 83% compared to this time last year. smh.

 

 

Yes until I came upon their site and the data itself.

[Chewbacca]

Anyways 2013 and 2018 are pretty close too. So the numbers are pretty close. It is still a ridiculously small timeframe when you have a decades-old stuff to compare.

[soon]

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yes until I came upon their site and the data itself.

Yeah, the 2013 number an the 2018 numbers are fairly close!!!! 

Nice to see we are back to INPE figures.

Their site being BBC? Saying thats accurate - I will take your word for it for now, given no links. And then point out that visually there is somewhere in the ball park of a 50% increase since last year. And its the highest since 2013 when the authoritative body started measuring using current methods. Lula musta being doing something right  Or is it rather that Bolsanoaro promised to open up the Amazon that spurred more deforestation efforts, especially given the solicitation of that Washington DC lobbyist and how that move aligns with Bolsanaros campaign pledges?

Edited August 24, 2019 by soon

[Chewbacca]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

Their site being BBC? Saying thats accurate - I will take your word for it for now, given no links. And then point out that visually there is somewhere in the ball park of a 50% increase since last year. And its the highest since 2013 when the authoritative body started measuring using current methods. Lula musta being doing something right  Or is it rather that Bolsanoaro promised to open up the Amazon that spurred more deforestation efforts, especially given the solicitation of that Washington DC lobbyist and how that move aligns with Bolsanaros campaign pledges?

Lula stepped out in 2010, the record holder year for queimadas in this decade, how do you explain that? 2016 came very close to this year and it was his protegé, Dilma, on her second term that "let" that happen.

That screenshot is from BBC Brazil, but you can read on the bottom:

Fonte: Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE)

Which means:

Source: Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE)

It was taken from INPE.

Also, I already adressed the business thing, it will bring in investment on the region such as the railroad I mentioned earlier. 

[soon]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Also, I already adressed the business thing, it will bring in investment on the region such as the railroad I mentioned earlier. 

No one is arguing that business isnt the motivation  Of course its the motivation.

All the facts Ive put forward support this. US and other multinational business interests to be exact. By way of burning the Amazon Forest. Torpedoes be damned. Welcome to the conversation.

The INPE produced a report that sounded alarms, and rightfully so. Bolsonaro fired the director for this. So that Bolsanaro could maintain public support for his anti-environment platform. At the same time that the Brazilian Govt hires DC lobbyists the forest is being burned. At least we arent wasting our time talking about 2010 anymore...

[Chewbacca]

11 minutes ago, soon said:

No one is arguing that business isnt the motivation  Of course its the motivation.

All the facts Ive put forward support this. US and other multinational business interests to be exact. By way of burning the Amazon Forest. Torpedoes be damned. Welcome to the conversation.

The INPE produced a report that sounded alarms, and rightfully so. Bolsonaro fired the director for this. So that Bolsanaro could maintain public support for his anti-environment platform. At the same time that the Brazilian Govt hires DC lobbyists the forest is being burned. At least we arent wasting our time talking about 2010 anymore...

No, the biased media turned it on an alarm. INPE had similar levels on 2016 and nobody said anything about it. 2010 we had the record queimada of the decade and you say it is not important data. These queimadas happen every year and just like NASA said, and they are surveiling it for way longer than INPE, aknowledges it's within the yearly standard. Which is why this is not noteworthy.