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Hard School FULL LEAK Discussion **NO LINKS**7 Day Suspension For Asking For Links**

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I can't believe it took...13 years... For this full song to leak... I remember when razz (a Canadian online radio dj) posted a 9 second clip of it on message boards...we knew it was gonna be a dope song.... But wow... It took so long... Oh well . At least we got it... :):)

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18 hours ago, BN38416 said:

I can't believe it took...13 years... For this full song to leak... I remember when razz (a Canadian online radio dj) posted a 9 second clip of it on message boards...we knew it was gonna be a dope song.... But wow... It took so long... Oh well . At least we got it... :):)

I'm still laughing at the "uh hum, F*CK YOU!" he does after the clip. To me it's as classic as the "Ok Nevermind" Axl did on The Blues at Rio 2001

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I'm super late to the party on this one, but I only just heard this track and I absolutely love it. It's very CD, in all the right ways. I feel like Scraped or Rhiad definitely could have been bumped for a kickass, polished version of Hard School. It's promising that it seems to have been listed as an alt on past setlists, though so were many tracks, including Going Down, that we never heard live.

CDII will go down as the album that never was, but would have been amazing.

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5 hours ago, stonegunner said:

CDII will go down as the album that never was, but would have been amazing.

I love Chinese Democracy and I agree with you that a follow-up will go down as one of the great what-ifs in GNR-lore. Especially if many of the more recent leaks had made it onto CDII. "Hard School" is basically the perfect track 1. 

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On 8/28/2019 at 6:06 AM, Rovim said:

 

I don't really see it as a concept album and it is my opinion that Twat, Better, and Catcher were the big guns that got released. The editing out of Brian May is interesting because I remember Axl said he was surprised fans that heard the Catcher leak mostly didn't like May's work on it or at least were less than excited about it. My guess is he decided to replace it with Bumble's work because of the poor reception of it online.

If that's true, and I don't remember him saying that, it's total nonsense. I don't remember reading a single complaint about May's guitar parts and I was around from the second it leaked.

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17 hours ago, SOH said:

If that's true, and I don't remember him saying that, it's total nonsense. I don't remember reading a single complaint about May's guitar parts and I was around from the second it leaked.

If i remember correctly, it was May himself who said,  that axl didn't like his parts, or anything similar like that...

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19 hours ago, SOH said:

If that's true, and I don't remember him saying that, it's total nonsense. I don't remember reading a single complaint about May's guitar parts and I was around from the second it leaked.

 

1 hour ago, ZODIAC said:

If i remember correctly, it was May himself who said,  that axl didn't like his parts, or anything similar like that...

In the Axl chats, Axl said Brian May wasn't happy with how his parts turned out. He didn't recognize himself or sth like that. If that is what you are refering to, it's in  one of the Axl chats.

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Quote

There's a few reasons and none of them all that big and definitely not in spite or to slight anyone. 1st off obviously I knew people liked the song but the Brian appreciation really only showed up in force publicly after we had moved on in Guns. In fact Not many seemed to care and most comments were aimed at why Slash in their opinions should be here. Brians solo itself is a personal fave of mine and I really couldn't understand as he's such a rock legend why it wasn't openly appreciated more at the time. In actuality all that feel and emotion referred to now had a lot to do with Sean and I and the parts I chose out of Brian's different runs, versions, practice runs etc to make sure we had those elements in one version. It's entirely constructed from edits based around one specific note Brian hit in a throw away take. And though Brian seems to have warmed a bit to it at least publicly he was unfortunately none too pleased at the time with our handiwork. I remember looking at Brian standing to my left and him staring at the big studio speakers a bit aghast saying "But that's not what I played." Sean Beavan and I were not in any way triyng to mess with Brian we just did what we do and then try and do our best to stand up for our decisions

 

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Guitar solos are often cut from different takes and Brian May often does this himself also, so it's a bit of weird complaint for him to make. He obviously changed his mind as he later said he really liked how it turned out. 

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Same as CD, it’s worn off for me, don’t even listen to it anymore. Too much of it annoys me more than what I like about it.

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No matter how many times I hear this song, I always get goosebumps when the "all in good faith" line kicks in because it doesn't fade out lol. 

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On 24/02/2020 at 8:32 PM, Jw224 said:

Guitar solos are often cut from different takes and Brian May often does this himself also, so it's a bit of weird complaint for him to make. He obviously changed his mind as he later said he really liked how it turned out. 

Maybe it took him time to distance himself of the particular piece to appreciate what he did himself. I know this happens to me sometimes.

Still, if Axl liked it so much, why did he replaced it? He left untouched Robin's lead in this same song in both times Robin left the band. 

And with all this talk about comping the solo, why did he left Bumble's outro solo with an obvious editing mistake (a sudden dry cut of the solo)? 

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On 28/02/2020 at 3:12 PM, Voodoochild said:

Maybe it took him time to distance himself of the particular piece to appreciate what he did himself. I know this happens to me sometimes.

Still, if Axl liked it so much, why did he replaced it? He left untouched Robin's lead in this same song in both times Robin left the band. 

And with all this talk about comping the solo, why did he left Bumble's outro solo with an obvious editing mistake (a sudden dry cut of the solo)? 

Which bit are you referring to specifically? Never noticed an editing mistake on the final Catcher. Funny though finally having the good-quality Brian May version has made the final album version completely unlistenable for me.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/24/2020 at 3:32 PM, Jw224 said:

Guitar solos are often cut from different takes and Brian May often does this himself also, so it's a bit of weird complaint for him to make. He obviously changed his mind as he later said he really liked how it turned out. 

As a guitar player, I know that if I was to have a solo comped from various takes and copy/pasted together I at least would want to have a part in the creative decision since it was my playing lol.  So I wouldn't doubt that May was maybe initially a bit taken aback by the fact that what he heard was a big deviation from anything he did as a whole

Edited by WhazUp
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On 2/24/2020 at 12:48 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Only Rose would look at Brian May's guitar solos and think, ''what this guitar solo needs is a load of copying and pasting''!!

That's what everybody in the industry does lol. 

7 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

As a guitar player, I know that if I was to have a solo comped from various takes and copy/pasted together I at least would want to have a part in the creative decision since it was my playing lol.  So I wouldn't doubt that May was maybe initially a bit taken aback by the fact that what he heard was a big deviation from anything he did as a whole

Also if the guitar solo was taken out it could have been to for contractual reasons as well

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1 hour ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

That's what everybody in the industry does lol. 

No they don't.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

No they don't.

Yes they do. That’s basically how recordings are made.

Go in do a basic track normal Drums, Bass, Rhythm Guitar and Scratch Vocal

Overdubs to fix mistakes and tones or too add horns strings etc and then  after all that

Mix the basic track  to record the solos and  Vocals

Solos/ Vocals chose from the best takes

Final Editing 

Final Mixing/Mastering 

Release

Ask literally anyone who has ever made a record or done home recording

if you were making an album on tape the editing process is a nightmare because you sit their  with a razor blade and tape for literally hours. Just ask how they got Adlers drums  right for Civil War. Digital  makes everything easier

This is also why we will never see a and justice for all remix. The master tape is just shredded bits of recording tape and glue

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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Just now, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Yes they do. That’s basically how recordings are made.

Go in do a basic track

Overdubs and Solos chose from the best takes

Final Editing

Mixing/Mastering 

Release

Ask any industry professional

I am aware of industry practice however it is not normal procedure to composite the guitar solo itself through editing, i.e., splicing and pasting within the individual solo. When a guitar solo is tracked and mixed-in, it is usually a continuous live guitar solo. Brian May's Queen guitar solos were all holistic takes. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am aware of industry practice however it is not normal procedure to composite the guitar solo itself through editing, i.e., splicing and pasting within the individual solo. When a guitar solo is tracked and mixed-in, it is usually a continuous live guitar solo. Brian May's Queen guitar solos were all holistic takes. 

Again watch any documentary of records being made.  They are constantly being punched in and out. Solos are never one take they always have an edit in them for whatever reason It could be a minor timing issue or it may need to be recorded again completely. I guarantee every well-known solo is cut from different takes for whatever reason or another. It could be very minor or it could be very drastic. We won’t know the difference in the final product unless we go into the master tape.

 

For example, take Hotel California. The final solo sounds like its one continuous take  but its not

Szymczyk now describes the recording of the extended Felder/Walsh twin‑guitar coda that concludes 'Hotel California' as "one of the most amazing times that I've had as a producer. Don and Joe were with me in the control room, and we ran their mic cords out to amps in the studio so they could hear exactly what was happening. Don Felder was on one side of me, Joe Walsh was on the other, and we were punching in all of these incredible guitar parts which had not really been written before we started to do it. So we were doing a lot of what we call search‑and‑destroy — 'Well, let's try this and let's try that. If I did that, then the harmony would be this...' Just overdubbing all those leads was a basic two‑day process, and man, what a ball that was. They're both great, great players, and the two of them were on fire.”

 

The only album I can think of that was recorded in one take was Please Please Me because they basically had every detail down and knew the live set by heart and were just giving a concert in the studio

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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1 minute ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Again watch any documentary of records being mad.   They are constantly being  punched in and out. Solos are never one take they always have an edit in them for whatever reason It could be a minor timing issue or need to record it again completely. I guarantee every well known solo is cut from different takes for whatever reason or another. It could be very minor or it could be very drastic.We won’t know the difference on the final product  

 

The only album I can think of that was recorded in one take  was Please Please Me because they basically had ever detail down. 

This is utter bollocks and I have seen millions of documentaries. Firstly, before pro-tools, ''punching in and out'' was much harder technologically, so solos from the '50s-70s were inherently continuous (heck, up to the mid '60s they only had 4-tracks to work with!). A guitar solo lasts how long? 30 seconds to a minute? Truthful it is much easier to merely re-record it. The technology didn't exist.  

Also, what seems to be discussed pertaining to May's Chinese solos seems to affect the actual composition, not the mere ''punching in'' of a fluffed note or two. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is utter bollocks and I have seen millions of documentaries. Firstly, before pro-tools, ''punching in and out'' was much harder technologically, so solos from the '50s-70s were inherently continuous (heck, up to the mid '60s they only had 4-tracks to work with!). A guitar solo lasts how long? 30 seconds to a minute? Truthful it is much easier to merely re-record it. The technology didn't exist.  

Also, what seems to be discussed pertaining to May's Chinese solos seems to affect the actual composition, not the mere ''punching in'' of a fluffed note or two. 

The Beatles had 8 track tapes during Sergent Pepper 

But they had to mix down the tracks they were working on into one master then transfer it to a  new machine and do it again to get more room. 

Again here's this quote from Bill Symzick on Hotel California this is 1976 so it would be the same timeframe as  Queen.

Szymczyk now describes the recording of the extended Felder/Walsh twin‑guitar coda that concludes 'Hotel California' as "one of the most amazing times that I've had as a producer. Don and Joe were with me in the control room, and we ran their mic cords out to amps in the studio so they could hear exactly what was happening. Don Felder was on one side of me, Joe Walsh was on the other, and we were punching in all of these incredible guitar parts which had not really been written before we started to do it. So we were doing a lot of what we call search‑and‑destroy — 'Well, let's try this and let's try that. If I did that, then the harmony would be this...' Just overdubbing all those leads was a basic two‑day process, and man, what a ball that was. They're both great, great players, and the two of them were on fire.”

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/eagles-hotel-california

  Up till roughly to the mid to late 90s they were using tape. But they still can be punching stuff in and out threw splicing.

Within probably another 15 years all those records from the 70s the master tapes with the individual parts are just not going to be existing anymore because its tape falling apart because there was so much cutting and splicing back then. That's why they are transferring what they can to digital in case of remxies  

Edited by Gibsonfender2323

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1 minute ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

 The Beatles had 8 track tapes during Sergent Pepper b.

But they had to mix down the tracks they were working on into one master then transfer it to a  new machine and do it again to get more room. 

Again here's this quote from Bill Symzick on Hotel California this is 1976 so it would be the same timeframe as  Queen.

Szymczyk now describes the recording of the extended Felder/Walsh twin‑guitar coda that concludes 'Hotel California' as "one of the most amazing times that I've had as a producer. Don and Joe were with me in the control room, and we ran their mic cords out to amps in the studio so they could hear exactly what was happening. Don Felder was on one side of me, Joe Walsh was on the other, and we were punching in all of these incredible guitar parts which had not really been written before we started to do it. So we were doing a lot of what we call search‑and‑destroy — 'Well, let's try this and let's try that. If I did that, then the harmony would be this...' Just overdubbing all those leads was a basic two‑day process, and man, what a ball that was. They're both great, great players, and the two of them were on fire.”

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/eagles-hotel-california

 

 

Lindsey Buckingham on 

Yes but I doubt they then returned to those same guitar overdubs to cut out micro pieces (say a note), replacing them with new new micro pieces. I also doubt that somebody else other than the writer of the guitar solo (replicating W. Axl Rose's role) did this against the wishes of the guitarist.

You do realise what you had to to in order to copy and paste before the digital age? You had to physically splice together reels. 

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