Finck2006 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 50 minutes ago, dave94 said: I think it shows that actually there are some great songs on Chinese Democracy... but there are all buried under the mix! It seems like the album was ready in the early 00’s but axl spent 6 or 7 years endless tweaking parts here and there and the songs lost their edge in the process. It’s a shame. If the album had been released at that time it might have been received better by the fans. In the end by 2008 it had become a bit of a joke that it took so long and the album was never going to be good enough to make up for the time it took. I think 2002 was the year 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UYI4 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I’ve always wondered if they would re-release Chinese with other songs and have them reworked by current band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Of course, there’s always this possibility that Axl, knowing that not all CD songs will see the light of day now that the Old Ones are back – as they want to release some new music as well – told Zutaut or whomever to leak the shit, because he didn’t write all these tunes just to keep it in the drawers forever, right? Just throwing it out there, it’s not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 there were leaks in 2006, two years later the album released. if Axl wanted to hear the fan's input on some of these songs for some final touches, I guess that's he would have done. Axl seems insecure enough about his work, maybe he needed reassurance by the fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsdrummer63 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I can now say I've listed to all these leaks 5+ times (except the acoustic of KOHD) and here are my opinions -Perhaps: the piano is great. Axl is great on piano. I know it may not be the direction slash or whoever wanted to go in musically, but axl on piano usually leads to a very solid song. I love Brian May's solo and guitar work too. MY QUESTIONS are who is on drums? Is this Brain? Is Brian the only Guitarist? Oh and they hey hey need to be subtracted. Other than that, I really like it. Maybe turn up Brian's solo a bit. seems low in the mix -State of Grace; I really can't listen to this one at all. Good thing its a demo! -Atlas: This one has really grown on me recently. I can't see this on Terminator. I could see slash reworking some things and this song being good. -Hard School: Release it as is tomorrow and its a hit. I don't mind the repetitive lyrics. Wish they'd turn the guitars up a bit more. -Going down: I really like this song too. Axl's backing vocals are a bit annoying. In some spots, they do fit though. The guitar solo doesn't fit at all I feel. Slash could really lay down a nice solo on this one I bet. Anyone else think izzy's voice would fit well on this song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledge Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Atlas is the best new/unheard. The rest are like fun little jams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipfel Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Listening to the new tracks, a quote from Bach came to my head, where he describes how Axl saw lyrical connections between songs (I guess it was about which song to put on which album). Maybe it's too far fetched but the "be a man"-lines in AS and HS and "weight on shoulders" in AS and Perhaps indicate something like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlr0s37 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Only GnR fan who hasnt heard anything since going down was first leaked Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Edited September 16, 2019 by Axlr0s37 ignore spoliers i screwed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_247 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sledge said: Atlas is the best new/unheard. The rest are like fun little jams. I can’t really get into it whereas Hard School is great (how did that get dropped over Scraped?) and also Perhaps is fantastic - it’s like UYI meets CD. But the mixes (or lack thereof) on these are as the disc states ROUGH. They basically aren’t mixed at all, someone’s just balanced the levels in the studio which makes quite a lot of it very muddy. I noticed today on Hard School there’s some clipping at one point. Also looking at the discs is it possible that all of Disc 2 is Bucket tracks? I’m just wondering how these discs are/were split up GUNS N' ROSESRough Mixes CD #21. "P.R.L." 11/08/00 w/out THYME (no gtrs.) 3:542. "EYE ON YOU" 11/07/00 (VER.1) 3:363. "IF THE WORLD" 11/07/00 (VER.1) 5:054. "MUSTACHE" 11/07/00 (VER.1) 4:105. "QUICKSONG" 3/27/00 (10) 4:006. "ZODIAC 13" (no vox) 11/08/00 (VER.4) 4:387. "TONTO" 7/14/00 BLK/FRG dat (#3) 3:548. "REAL DOLL.com" 9/14/00 B. Head cd (#2) 4:049. "SHANKLERS REVENGE" 9/14/00 cd (#1) 3:2610. "I'm SORRY" 10/26/00 B. Head cd (#1) 6:00 Edited September 16, 2019 by life_247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, jamillos said: Of course, there’s always this possibility that Axl, knowing that not all CD songs will see the light of day now that the Old Ones are back – as they want to release some new music as well – told Zutaut or whomever to leak the shit, because he didn’t write all these tunes just to keep it in the drawers forever, right? Just throwing it out there, it’s not impossible. Accord an Dowzny post Axl doesn't very happy about the leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Gunsdrummer63 said: -Going down: I really like this song too. Axl's backing vocals are a bit annoying. In some spots, they do fit though. The guitar solo doesn't fit at all I feel. Slash could really lay down a nice solo on this one I bet. Anyone else think izzy's voice would fit well on this song? I think Izzy or Duff would sound fine on lead here. I think this song with a slash solo and Axl reworking some of the backing vocals could be a hit. It's my 2nd fave after Hardschool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: I think Izzy or Duff would sound fine on lead here. I think this song with a slash solo and Axl reworking some of the backing vocals could be a hit. It's my 2nd fave after Hardschool. This actually makes me a bit angry haha. It's a Tommy Stinson song. And it should stay like that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Lethalis said: This actually makes me a bit angry haha. It's a Tommy Stinson song. And it should stay like that. To be fair, Tommy made a lot of money from performing old guns songs, so this would be like an in kind contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Nah, they shouldn't use Going down. Feels all wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, Ratam said: Accord an Dowzny post Axl doesn't very happy about the leaks. For real? Or is that the version for the public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walapino Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Nah, they shouldn't use Going down. Feels all wrong. Yeah, it has no place with the current line up and I much rather prefer the other leaks anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, jamillos said: For real? Or is that the version for the public? I don't would say it, but i believe it that Dowzny said. ☺ maybe you are right about Axl want it be version for the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 What really is missing on Chinese Democracy and also the leaks... is some feel of swinging rock and roll. The kind of music Izzy Stradlin added to the mix. I was listening to Chinese era GnR... and then took a break from that. Now I'm listening to Kenny Wayne Shepherd with Blue on Black and I'm kinda shocked how it has me rocking in my chair. NuGNR doesn't do that for me Still missing Izzy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.. Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Have listened to the "new songs" on repeat, my conclusions: 1. State Of Grace : best song of the bunch. Really didn't expect loving this one as much. I don't like the title, and on the first listen, I wasn't sure, especially since the mix is garbage. I almost didn't recognize Axl's voice in the beginning, he sings very differently, I appreciate the change of style. Reminds me of Soundgarden a lot. It has really grown on me, and keeps growing listen after listen. Very, very powerful song. I love the lyrics (even though I still can't decipher the part where Axl gets angry), I love the tone/mood, love the melody, love the slow pace at the beginning, I love how it keeps getting meaner & meaner until the ending. I love the final "now, more than ever, I still remember your name" most especially. I feel it could still be improved a bit in the studio. Axl needs to go full rasp on this one. This song has a gigantic potential. It needs to be longer too. Add a killer Slash solo in there, and it will be a masterpiece. Totally the kind of material Slash can improve, fits his style. 2. Hard School : I could list it at number one as well but I may have overplayed it. Very solid song, I could see it being a single. It may need a bit of rework here & there, but I really love it as it is, and I doubt Slash can top Buckethead's contribution. Fucking killer song, I can't believe it has sit in the vault for so long. Fucking crazy. 3. Atlas Shrugged : very good song, I like it a lot, especially the lyrics. I hope they will keep May's parts, they are magnificent. Love it as it is, but I have a feeling it can be improved. 4. Perhaps : perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't dig this one much. I find it very weak. Reminds me of some UYI stuff I don't dig as well. The "aaaye aaaye" parts from Axl don't fit the CD era, at least for me. I don't like the melody, the piano is boring... yeah it's just not for me. Weird song, but again, great lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svdv Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I seriously doubt Axl, or any other musician/artist, really cares about personal input from fans. About what they think of the final result, maybe, yes. But as actually criticism, to possibly change the direction of the song? I don't believe that at all, and I'm honestly wondering if you guys are joking ghehe. Axl is (believe it or not ;-)) a professional. Written a lot of amazing tunes to prove that. Some already proven to stand the "test of time". He's surrounded by professionals in and outside of the band, who also wrote great tunes and had years of experience in the field. And us? We're all jackasses on an online forum. If you really think Axl cares about your opinion it's time to get your head out of your ass ;-) I think he's major pissed, and rightfully so. Though I think @jamillos has a point saying Axl didn't write those songs to be kept in the drawer, I do think he rather have us not hear it than hear an unfinished version. Something he doesn't 100% stand by. Plus who knows what he wanted to do with those songs in the future. I'm not a musician, or any artist for that matter. But it's not that hard to imagine that having your work stolen from you and put out there, without your consent, and something that is not finished thus not meant to be heard sucked balls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.. Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, svdv said: I seriously doubt Axl, or any other musician/artist, really cares about personal input from fans. About what they think of the final result, maybe, yes. But as actually criticism, to possibly change the direction of the song? I don't believe that at all, and I'm honestly wondering if you guys are joking ghehe. Axl is (believe it or not ;-)) a professional. Written a lot of amazing tunes to prove that. Some already proven to stand the "test of time". He's surrounded by professionals in and outside of the band, who also wrote great tunes and had years of experience in the field. And us? We're all jackasses on an online forum. If you really think Axl cares about your opinion it's time to get your head out of your ass ;-) I think he's major pissed, and rightfully so. Though I think @jamillos has a point saying Axl didn't write those songs to be kept in the drawer, I do think he rather have us not hear it than hear an unfinished version. Something he doesn't 100% stand by. Plus who knows what he wanted to do with those songs in the future. I'm not a musician, or any artist for that matter. But it's not that hard to imagine that having your work stolen from you and put out there, without your consent, and something that is not finished thus not meant to be heard sucked balls. Sure, I get where you're coming from, especially the stolen material part, I agree. However, I doubt Axl doesn't give a fuck about fans' reception. As for "professional", it doesn't really mean anything as of 2019. A lot of "amateurs" on the internet have better skills whether it's music, hosting a show/podcast, editing, shooting, creating short films & so on, than a lot of "professional". What does "professional" even mean at this point? Being paid and delivering an "official" product. That's about it. Some so-called professionals have nothing to do in the music or movie industry, and I couldn't care less about their advices. A lot of them are high on cocaine or whatever drugs and get lazy and full of themselves pretty fast. As for the public reception, every artist takes it seriously. It's actually more important than anything else, because those are the people that support you and pay for your work. When you see the public doesn't like your product, you begin to reconsider what you're doing. And Axl has a history of reading internet messageboards. Of course there a lot of morons who have no idea what they're talking about, but I also think a lot of us here have great tastes in music and give some good insights. And hey, that guy called evader from the GN'R community, is actually better skilled in mixing than some "professionals" that mixed the final Chinese Democracy album. I also think part of why Axl reunited is because he knows so many people of the GN'R have wanted that forever. He cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svdv Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, D.. said: Sure, I get where you're coming from, especially the stolen material part, I agree. However, I doubt Axl doesn't give a fuck about fans' reception. As for "professional", it doesn't really mean anything as of 2019. A lot of "amateurs" on the internet have better skills whether it's music, hosting a show/podcast, editing, shooting, creating short films & so on, than a lot of "professional". What does "professional" even mean at this point? Being paid and delivering an "official" product. That's about it. Some so-called professionals have nothing to do in the music or movie industry, and I couldn't care less about their advices. A lot of them are high on cocaine or whatever drugs and get lazy and full of themselves pretty fast. As for the public reception, every artist takes it seriously. It's actually more important than anything else, because those are the people that support you and pay for your work. When you see the public doesn't like your product, you begin to reconsider what you're doing. And Axl has a history of reading internet messageboards. Of course there a lot of morons who have no idea what they're talking about, but I also think a lot of us here have great tastes in music and give some good insights. And hey, that guy called evader from the GN'R community, is actually better skilled in mixing than some "professionals" that mixed the final Chinese Democracy album. I also think part of why Axl reunited is because he knows so many people of the GN'R have wanted that forever. He cares. To be clear: I don't think Axl doesn't care about the fans, or what the fans think about his work. (Not saying you said that, just wanted to emphasize that.) But there's a difference between caring about what they think or actually wanting their feedback as part of the creative process. There are certain things in the songwriting process that you should or shouldn't do because it'll just f*ck up a song. Not things a casual fan might know, but unknowingly those are the things that make those same fans love/hate a songs. And the same goes for paintings, books, movies, etc. Anything that an artist create. It's a thin line but not knowing the "rules" and just jerking off makes you an amateur*. Knowing the rules and deliberate breaking them makes you a pioneer ;-) To me, that's the difference between a professional and a amateur. That, and the fact that a professional has his own strong opinion on what he/she wants to do with his/her work. Yes, you can be influences by the opinions of others. But this should be a select group of people close to the artist. Not the whole freaking message board full of people who know jack shit about writing music (but everything about loving it)**. * And yes, you are right, sometimes an "untrained unknown" form the internet turns out to be amazingly capable. I would consider a person like that a professional, not an amateur just because he/she doesn't get paid big bucks and/or isn't super famous. I consider myself a professional in my line of work and trust me, outside my family and closest friends nobody heard of me ;-) ** Possibly some of you are amazing song writers, but generally speaking I mean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I can certainly say that Rose and his entourage view these leaks with the same enthusiasm that they'd view developing a bout of arse cancer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, svdv said: To be clear: I don't think Axl doesn't care about the fans, or what the fans think about his work. (Not saying you said that, just wanted to emphasize that.) But there's a difference between caring about what they think or actually wanting their feedback as part of the creative process. There are certain things in the songwriting process that you should or shouldn't do because it'll just f*ck up a song. Not things a casual fan might know, but unknowingly those are the things that make those same fans love/hate a songs. And the same goes for paintings, books, movies, etc. Anything that an artist create. It's a thin line but not knowing the "rules" and just jerking off makes you an amateur*. Knowing the rules and deliberate breaking them makes you a pioneer ;-) To me, that's the difference between a professional and a amateur. That, and the fact that a professional has his own strong opinion on what he/she wants to do with his/her work. Yes, you can be influences by the opinions of others. But this should be a select group of people close to the artist. Not the whole freaking message board full of people who know jack shit about writing music (but everything about loving it)**. * And yes, you are right, sometimes an "untrained unknown" form the internet turns out to be amazingly capable. I would consider a person like that a professional, not an amateur just because he/she doesn't get paid big bucks and/or isn't super famous. I consider myself a professional in my line of work and trust me, outside my family and closest friends nobody heard of me ;-) ** Possibly some of you are amazing song writers, but generally speaking I mean I get what you're saying overall. Some of the points on here have been funny (IMO) like when people say this track or that track sounds "unfinished". Well.....yeah....that's because it's not finished yet lol, or at the very least wasn't when these tracks were created. However, outside of the occasional negative comment here and there, my biggest takeaway has been that there are a TON of positive comments in every thread dedicated to each leak. I would think / hope Axl cares about that. At the end of the day, art is extremely subjective right? A lot of GN'Rs back catalog seems extremely polazizing up to and especially including Chinese Democracy. So I was very pleaseantly surprised to see all of the positive comments many people are making about these latest tracks. I guess if I were Axl, I'd be thinking "Fuck yeah. Wait til they hear the finished version!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legendador Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 All these leaks makes me sad in a kind of way. At first when I heard them I though they were not good, maybe I wasn't used to the ChiDem sound still. When I heard "As It Begin" I started to pay attention to the leaks, listening closer, through my headphones and they just blew me away, There's so many layers of pure creativity in those songs and I really felt sad, because to me the band missed the opportunity years ago. Now, the leaks are out there, and there's no reason for the band to release nothing else. If they release these songs properly, by the time they get to iTunes or Spotify they will be already old. If they don't, why release a bunch of other songs? There's your full EP, right? Ozzy gave an interview to Blabbermouth and made me laugh so hard but he's right when he says: "Music goes straight online these days and that's quicker than it takes me to write a text. It's all about downloads and streaming now. What the fuck does that mean? What's Spotify? I thought it was a skin problem where you woke up Spotified." Anyway, I think this hinders any possible proper future releases, because of so many songs leaking. And worse, if they continue with the same setlist (which seems to be the case) people will lose interest. I'm going to see them live for the fifth time on April, but if it's the same setlist it's gonna be a bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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