Was the CD Eddie Trunk played IRS from in 2003 the same CD where Hard School originated from for the "Checkmate" leak in 2006?

[TheSeeker]

Eddie Trunk posted this online in 2003 after GNR's legal team contacted him because he played "IRS" on his radio show:

Quote

 

Quick update on the GN’R news. Today's NY Post has a story about the airing on my show, and tonight, MTV will run a story on TV about the exclusive airing. It is also already on just about every major music news site! The buzz just keeps getting bigger on this!! Piazza and I have been blown away by the response. Please email me through this site for press requests, etc. I have been HAMMERED with email from all over the globe regarding my exclusive airing of the new Guns N’ Roses track ‘IRS’ this past Friday. This has become a MAJOR story, and I'm trying to get back to as many people as I can, but simply can not respond to everybody. Here is the latest on what went down:

My friend and occassional co-host Mike Piazza paid a visit to the show close to Midnight. As you could imagine, Mike gets a tremendous amount of fan mail, and being a hard rock and GN’R fan, lot's of CDs in his mail. Mike came in with a CD that was labeled as new Guns. It was packaged anonymously. Mike wasn't sure if it was legit, but we put it on the air, and the phones went nuts. The song was called ‘IRS’ and sounded like Illusion era GN’R, with a few modern touches (loops, samples in intro). I don't think it was 100% complete, but sounded pretty close. We took live calls about it, and people were blown away at the exclusive they just heard on my show (not to mention it was a star baseball player that came up with it!). I like GN’R, but I'm not a fanatic, but I must say, the song was really good. There were other tracks and music on the CD as well, but I only had a chance to listen to them on the ride home. Mike left the CD with me, so I could determine what to do with it from there. Questions of how legit this recording was were quickly squashed when I started to get calls and email from the bands management on Saturday. This was VERY legit!

A few facts here:

It will NOT be played again! Now that I know it was legit, I have co-operated completely with the bands management, and have been asked to turn over the CD, which I did. I no longer have it. It was not labeled in anyway, it was just a burned CDR.

The song will not be included on the replay show. I have been forced to edit it out (another reason why my show is best heard live!). There are legal issues if you don't comply, and I will be served with papers to prohibit the repeated airing even if I still had it and wanted to!! It will not be heard again until it is an official release.

The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think). The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead. I don't know what the title was, but I kinda wish I had the chance to play that one as well. Mike & I didn't really know what we had, so we just played the first track ‘IRS’.

We have no idea where this came from. Mike threw out the packaging when he went through his fan mail weeks ago. I would say it was somebody that works in a studio, or perhaps an intentional leak to build buzz. Of course I'm just thrilled they picked my show and Mike to send it to! If you remember, there were also reports a couple months ago of Axl playing this music in strip clubs, maybe another source? Again, we have no idea!

Again, I have co-operated fully with the bands management. It will not be replayed and I no longer have it. Like I always say, you never know what's going to happen on the show! This is just another reason why you should be hammering your local stations to carry my show live. It is available anywhere in the US. Your voice counts! If you don't get the show, tell your local stations program directors you want it!! Piazza hung out for a couple hours total, and the always hysterical Jim Breuer dropped by after a Metallica club show. Just a great way to kick off the labor day weekend. A great mix of music, talk and giveaways, and of course, exclusive music!”

 

So the tracklisting on this CD was

1. IRS

2. IRS (Instrumental)

3. Unknown

4. Unknown (Instrumental)

5. "A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead"

6. "A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead" (Instrumental)

Could Track #5 and Track #6 have been "Hard School"? Maybe Track #3 and Track #4 were "Better" since both a demo of that and an instrumental of that leaked in 2006?

This is supposedly the story of the 15-second Hard School/Checkmate leak in 2006:

Quote

 

RazZ claims that someone approached him with a CD he apparently stole from the GnR studio.

RazZ contacted GnR management who told him that if he co-operated with them and helped them catch the thief they would give him VIP treatment at the Hammerstein gigs.

RazZ apparently helped them and they caught him (I think?) but GnR management didn't live up to their side of the bargain.

So RazZ decided to screw GnR management by playing Checkmate on his radio show and people have been crazy over it since.

That is what was posted on the boards back in 2006. Also Razz only got that one clip as proof the theif had the cd in hand

 

I've been thinking about this a bunch in the past couple days - who from the studio would have been mad at Axl and also known Mike Piazza was a GNR superfan in 2003? 

Edited September 9, 2019 by TheSeeker

[ManetsBR]

It could still be any one, but this is a good question. It doesn't have to be someone close to him, because any executive possibly mad at him could also easily know what is some famous baseball player's favorite rock band. But yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot too. Supposedly that IRS came from the same CD where the Checkmate clip was pulled from, yes. But remains the question, what CD is that? One of those 20, then? Maybe not. Probably not?

I mean, none of those CDs were submitted to Geffen, I suppose, they were, as they it's written, Rough mixes, internal studio use. I''m guessing the Piazza CD is from either higher grounds, or closer grounds to Axl. They are probably not the same source - Checkmate and Hardschool. That's my guess.

Edited September 9, 2019 by ManetsBR

[Gackt]

I'd guess #5/6 was an early version of Shackler's.

[TheSeeker]

6 minutes ago, Gackt said:

I'd guess #5/6 was an early version of Shackler's.

If the "Better" leaks from 2006 (instrumental and non-instrumental) came from the disc that would also fit the description - they kind of magically appeared online without explanation a few weeks after Axl mentioned the track's name in that Rolling Stone article in early 2006

So either the hoarders got scared since they knew their track would soon be worthless, or Axl leaked it himself (?)

Whatever happened, it was very weird

Edited September 9, 2019 by TheSeeker

[Powerage5]

8 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

If the "Better" leaks from 2006 (instrumental and non-instrumental) came from the disc that would also fit the description - they kind of magically appeared online without explanation a few weeks after Axl mentioned the track's name in that Rolling Stone article in early 2006

So either the hoarders got scared since they knew their track would soon be worthless, or Axl leaked it himself (?)

Whatever happened, it was very weird

Not sure how much perception has changed in the last 13 years, but I remember for a while it was pretty generally accepted that IRS, Better, and TWAT came from the GN'R camp in 2006, while Catcher and Checkmate came from other sources. 

[ManetsBR]

The IRS, Better and TWAT leaks have nothing to do with Catcher and Checkmate leaks.

IRS is a special case, though, because it comes from that Piazza CD. Someone recorded it while it played on Eddie Trunk's show; the person who leaked, Darknemus, did not have the original CD.

I was mistaken in my first post here. The Checkmate clip does not come from this original IRS, bootleged from Trunk's air of Piazza's mysterious CD. The Checkmate clip comes from Razz, and these people source's are not the same. Razz, says he got the CD from uptownterry, who claimed to be an old GNR engineer.

 

There's then the other version of IRS, that came with Better and TWAT, and the original source, wes, simply said he got the songs from a DJ who burned a copy while Axl played it in some club in Las Vegas. This was all leaked only three years later, when wes sent Saint Seya the stuff.

But now that I read that Eddie Trunk post, which I had never read, I see he mentions Axl playing Chinese Democracy at clubs, and it was written in 2003. Hmm. How had I never noticed this?

 

 

Well, I don't know what to say. I'm thinking...

 

EDIT: Wait a minute, I'm a mistaken or we don't have a clear source for the CITR leak? This is all Darknemus had to say when I asked him:

"I am not a fan of taking credit for CITR, actually. You can say that I was 'involved' in it, but not directly responsible. For CITR I was given the file. Not over the phone or anything like that, I was given to me by someone that I can't name. But it was in a very tight knit circle of others before that. People who sent me had the tape but I have no idea where the tape came from. They digitalized and sent me"

 

It's not from the Stripclub CD, and it's not from the Checkmate CD Razz received. I mean, it could be on the Stripclub CD, but Darknemus says he received it separately. Actually, the only reason TWAT leaked is because Darnkemus tricked Saint Seya, trading CITR for TWAT and then leaking both on the same week.

 

I mean, this is the story...

Edited September 9, 2019 by ManetsBR

[TheSeeker]

Catcher in the Rye being sourced from a cassette tape for the 2006 leak could mean either

-A hoarder purposefully wanted to degrade the track to preserve its value

-Someone playing the CD had to dupe it fast and the only way to do so was by throwing a cassette tape into an attached deck and recording onto that

Second scenario would match the "strip club DJ" theory to a tee

[zombux]

just wanted to point out some facts:

1. the old CITR leak is slightly different than the latest CITR leak - it sounds like a bit older version because even though it seems very similar, it lacks some additional guitars.

2. the old IRS leak (the "IRS 99") is exactly the same as the recently leaked IRS and "confirmed" to be in the Zutaut locker by people who have the tracks - altough I won't 100% trust them until they share it all

3. the old Checkmate leak is exactly the same as the recently leaked Hardschool - BUT of course we had only the clip to compare, so who knows if the rest of the song Razz had really matched the recently leaked whole song

4. the old TWAT leak (the "TWAT 99") still wasn't identified with any other TWAT version - BUT it of course might be identified with some TWAT in the Zutaut locker

5. the old IRS leak (the "Piazza/darknemus" thing) was confirmed to be the same IRS as leaked later in February 2006 - or was it? did somebody try doing some deep comparisons?

6. the "Piazza disc" (or whatever medium that was) supposedly had different set of songs than the "strip club CDs" and for example included Prostitute

7. the instrumental versions of the Feb 2006 leaks probably come from different source than the "strip club CDs" 3 songs (IRS, Better, TWAT)

8. the old CITR was NOT a Razz leak, altough it leaked in roughly the same time and sounded similarly.

am I correct at all those or not?

[Guest]

Hard to believe trunk didn't rip the cd

[Jordan Rose]

The knowledge you fuckers have on this is insane. Fair play. 

[zombux]

1 minute ago, Jordan Rose said:

The knowledge you fuckers have on this is insane. Fair play. 

if you get one album within 26 years, you sure have tons of free time to educate yourself

[TheSeeker]

UPDATE

Found this blurb:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1474030/for-the-record-quick-news-on-axl-rose-justin-timberlake-courtney-love-metallica-jay-z-zz-top-more/

Quote

"Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose wandered into the Crazy Horse Too in Las Vegas Wednesday morning (July 16) and treated the nearly empty strip club to a preview of tracks from his band's long-delayed Chinese Democracy album." (MTV, 07/17/03)

The strip club DJ totally mailed a copy of that CD to Mike Piazza.

The Eddie Trunk broadcast with "IRS", from what I can put together, was on August 30, 2003

Edited September 30, 2019 by TheSeeker

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TheSeeker said:

UPDATE

Found this blurb:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1474030/for-the-record-quick-news-on-axl-rose-justin-timberlake-courtney-love-metallica-jay-z-zz-top-more/

The strip club DJ totally mailed a copy of that CD to Mike Piazza.

The Eddie Trunk broadcast with "IRS", from what I can put together, was on August 30, 2003

Yeah this seems most likely to me as well, god I gotta read Chinese whispers again soon, has it been updated with the recent goings on?

[Axl_morris]

Does it matter now? Not wanting to sound like a dick but.. does it really matter? 

[ronartest2004]

So it looks like Mike Piazzas dad did business with the crazy horse too’s owner, helped open a second crazy horse in philly. So there is definitely a connection there. 
 

http://www.americanmafia.com/Inside_Vegas/10-18-10_Inside_Vegas.html

 

whos to say the dj and Mike weren’t friends, and that dj knew to pop in a tape and record some songs, send them off to piazza and say “enjoy”

Edited September 30, 2019 by ronartest2004

[SonofaGun]

10 hours ago, TheSeeker said:

UPDATE

Found this blurb:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1474030/for-the-record-quick-news-on-axl-rose-justin-timberlake-courtney-love-metallica-jay-z-zz-top-more/

The strip club DJ totally mailed a copy of that CD to Mike Piazza.

The Eddie Trunk broadcast with "IRS", from what I can put together, was on August 30, 2003

I can honestly say i remember listening that Trunk show. Great times.

[jekylhyde]

Axl Rose going to a strip club, prolly drunk as a cool rock'n'roll recluse he is, adamant about playing his god damn jams nobody has heard... I can dig that.

I always thought it was a bit too convinient when Axl mentioned Better* on that RS interview from that Korn party and then, whammo, the song magically leaks a month later.

*If I remember correctly nobody even knew about that title before that interview.

[uzi your illusion]

4 hours ago, SonofaGun said:

I can honestly say i remember listening that Trunk show. Great times.

Thats very cool.

Did they tease it and build to it all hour long? Or they played it right away? Did Piazza say he heard it before they played it that night or was he waiting to hear it for the first time?

[Mendez]

Another scenario is that since everyone was sent CDs of stuff, it wouldnt be that had to imagine that one CD got left behind, and someone (janitor, secretary, intern etc) that works at one of these major recording studios that they habited for years just took it home with them. Hell maybe they didnt even book the studio under "GNR". Probably booked it under black frog or something and someone heard something being played by an engineer and stuck around until they left to see if anything was left behind in the tape/disc player

[SonofaGun]

On 9/30/2019 at 3:04 PM, uzi your illusion said:

Thats very cool.

Did they tease it and build to it all hour long? Or they played it right away? Did Piazza say he heard it before they played it that night or was he waiting to hear it for the first time?

I dont remember that well. I remember Axl calling into Trunk with Seb better though. That was in 2005 or 06. All those bootlegs were flying around and "wireless" was becoming a thing.  I was in line behind Sebastian Bach at the first Hammerstein show in 06- cool guy! 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

In terms of what I want to leak

Segment of Trunk show with Trunk and Piazza talking about and playing GnR leaks > VMA's 2002 rehearsal