10/07/19 - Wichita, KS - INTRUST Bank Arena **Locomotive played for the first time since 1992**

[jacdaniel]

Hardcore fans are a minority of course. But there are different types of casuals. Some casuals only know the hits. Some have a copy of AFD only. Some have a bunch or even all albums and know the latest news but don’t obsess on a forum. 
 

Id say most fans at the shows have at least some albums and are somewhat up to speed on the band news.

Im only a hardcore fan of Guns. I like a lot of other bands, but not enough to join a forum. If that band plays in my country, I’ll check setlist fm and attend the show

[PatrickS77]

4 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I still disagree.  As long as someone somewhat knows a decent percentage of the songs and shells out money to see them live, I consider them a fan, regardless of anything else

So the person next to me knew Chinese and heard the Illusions long ago and didn't remember Coma and asked me what it was - I still consider that person a fan

 

This is gonna get circular really fast so I will just put a coda on it in saying all in all I agree with Russ' original point regarding Locomotive

I like AC/DC. I go to their concerts. But I own exactly 4 CDs of them. I do know many, but not all songs of them. I would feel a fraud to call myself an AC/DC fan. I like them. But I'm not in the category that would get me called a fan.

And again. In the case of GNR we are talking about a band that has exactly 4 albums. We're not talking about Alice Cooper, who has 20+ albums or Prince, who has 30+ albums. We are talking about a band with 4 albums. I would accept people not knowing CD stuff, as that is not really GNR. But a fan who doesn't know the songs of AFD, UYI 1 + 2? Get the fuck out of here.

[Thorbear]

30 minutes ago, Tadsy said:

I personally think that GNR have enough back catalogue to fill out with “their” songs without filling in with covers... BHS witchita, seeker, slither (I’ll get some people disagreeing) but all those should be retired for the short term imo. I still have no issue with LALD or KOHD as those have been staples for 30 years. 

The seeker has been played for quite some time now, how long time left before that becomes a staple? 

[WhazUp]

19 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

I like AC/DC. I go to their concerts. But I own exactly 4 CDs of them. I do know many, but not all songs of them. I would feel a fraud to call myself an AC/DC fan. I like them. But I'm not in the category that would get me called a fan.

And again. In the case of GNR we are talking about a band that has exactly 4 albums. We're not talking about Alice Cooper, who has 20+ albums or Prince, who has 30+ albums. We are talking about a band with 4 albums. I would accept people not knowing CD stuff, as that is not really GNR. But a fan who doesn't know the songs of AFD, UYI 1 + 2? Get the fuck out of here.

Again I will just put a coda on it by saying I would never tell someone they are not a "true" fan if they didn't know one 7+ minute UYI deep cut randomly busted out at a show lol that just isn't the way I approach that whole concept of fandom in that binary "is or isn't" way

Edited October 9, 2019 by WhazUp

[PatrickS77]

7 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Again I will just end it by saying I would never tell someone they are not a "true" fan if they didn't know one 7+ minute UYI deep cut randonly busted out at a show lol that just isn't the way I approach that whole concept of fandom in that binary "is or isn't" way

Yeah. And there's where we disagree. Some people use the term "fan" to lightlly.... kinda like calling all the people following you on Facebook "friends". Well, they are not. And it's not just a random 2 minute throw away forgettable song. It's a 7+ minute semi-epic in an already small back catalog of 3 albums.

Edited October 9, 2019 by PatrickS77

[WhazUp]

4 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Yeah. And there's where we disagree. Some people use the term "fan" to likely.... kinda like calling all the people following you on Facebook "friends". Well, they are not. And it's not just a random 2 minute throw away forgettable song. It's a 7+ minute semi-epic in an already small back catalog of 3 albums.

Agree to disagree for sure, I still lobby for the approach the concept of calling someone a "fan" something that is much more inclusive and less of a binary "you must be "x" tall to ride this ride" sort of way lol

 

But regardless of the very specific debate over that, I am still stoked as hell that Locomotive was indeed played.  It is one of my favorite GNR songs and listening to the videos, I am pleased that even Frank did a decent job on it which I was cautiously worried about when I first saw it show up on the setlist lol since the song's backbone is all about that groove. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by WhazUp

[Thorbear]

18 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

I would accept people not knowing CD stuff, as that is not really GNR. But a fan who doesn't know the songs of AFD, UYI 1 + 2? Get the fuck out of here.

But this is all relative, you could argue that people could be excused for not knowing anything beyond AFD since the band changed too much between that and the Illusions albums. 

 

And someone like me, who got into GNR in the 2000s and absolutely love CD and still listen to it pretty much every week, who go to concerts, hang out on the forums, own all the ablums, dvds and shit, do I not count as a fan because I don't know every song on UYI or Spagetti Incident by heart? 

6 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Yeah. And there's where we disagree. Some people use the term "fan" to lightlly.... kinda like calling all the people following you on Facebook "friends". Well, they are not. And it's not just a random 2 minute throw away forgettable song. It's a 7+ minute semi-epic in an already small back catalog of 3 albums.

A 7+ minute semi-epic that has been played 5 times the last 28 years. At least Dead Horse got a music video, but I'd say that is also quite obscure. 

[PatrickS77]

3 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Agree to disagree for sure, I still lobby for the approach the concept of calling someone a "fan" something that is much more inclusive and less of a binary "you must be "x" tall to ride this ride" sort of way lol

 

But regardless of the very specific debate over that, I am still stoked as hell that Locomotive was indeed played.  It is one of my favorite GNR songs and listening to the videos, I am pleased that even Frank did a decent job on it which I was cautiously worried about when I first saw it show up on the setlist lol since the song's backbone is all about that groove. 

Agreed.

 

2 minutes ago, Thorbear said:

But this is all relative, you could argue that people could be excused for not knowing anything beyond AFD since the band changed too much between that and the Illusions albums. 

 

And someone like me, who got into GNR in the 2000s and absolutely love CD and still listen to it pretty much every week, who go to concerts, hang out on the forums, own all the ablums, dvds and shit, do I not count as a fan because I don't know every song on UYI or Spagetti Incident by heart? 

Well. When you stand at the concert and when they start to play Coma and/or Locomotive and you ask the people around you what songs those are, that certainly would put your fanhood in question. One could argue though that you are more of a Axl fan.  Even though even then it could be expected that you know most of his songs. But either way, there is still something like a casual fan. I wouldn't quite consider them a "real" (despite me hating that distinciton) fan. There are just nuances of fanhood.

[Sydney Fan]

42 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Hardcore fans are a minority of course. But there are different types of casuals. Some casuals only know the hits. Some have a copy of AFD only. Some have a bunch or even all albums and know the latest news but don’t obsess on a forum. 
 

Id say most fans at the shows have at least some albums and are somewhat up to speed on the band news.

Im only a hardcore fan of Guns. I like a lot of other bands, but not enough to join a forum. If that band plays in my country, I’ll check setlist fm and attend the show

Im sure the casual fans are the same ones who think richard is izzy!. I dont understand why there would be casual fans going in 2019. I thought those casual fans who are there to hear maybe 3,4 songs would have gone in 2016 and 2017. Im sure alot of the casual fans are seeing gnr as a bucket list thing.

[izzy92]

Lol this convo is ridiculous, of course you can be a fan of a band without knowing every single song on every single album. If that was true, I'd only be a fan of two bands despite attending over 600 concerts by 180 different acts. Just because GnR has less to discover doesn't really mean anything, you're either going to try and dive into an artist's entire discography or not. You're also expecting people to remember and re-listen to tracks that they don't even enjoy...some people ONLY know SCOM and Welcome to the Jungle - probably a casual listener. Others know those, Paradise City, Nightrain, YCBM, November Rain...casual fan. Throw in Patience, Don't Cry, Estranged, KOHD and LALD and that is a solid, regular fan of the band. Anything more and you're hardcore! Probably 15-20% of the audience at a given show know more than those songs. Just look at Izzy performing 14 years with Gnr in London, 85% of the audience cheered his name but looked completely lost when the song started!

[Tom2112]

10 hours ago, lame ass security said:

Locomotive and Nighttrain, they should do a cover of Crazy Train and have Train as an opening act.😄

Ha!  Axl should ask for the rock n roll train prop from Angus and have it crash through the stage when the drums kick in.

[Sydney Fan]

4 minutes ago, izzy92 said:

Lol this convo is ridiculous, of course you can be a fan of a band without knowing every single song on every single album. If that was true, I'd only be a fan of two bands despite attending over 600 concerts by 180 different acts. Just because GnR has less to discover doesn't really mean anything, you're either going to try and dive into an artist's entire discography or not. You're also expecting people to remember and re-listen to tracks that they don't even enjoy...some people ONLY know SCOM and Welcome to the Jungle - probably a casual listener. Others know those, Paradise City, Nightrain, YCBM, November Rain...casual fan. Throw in Patience, Don't Cry, Estranged, KOHD and LALD and that is a solid, regular fan of the band. Anything more and you're hardcore! Probably 15-20% of the audience at a given show know more than those songs. Just look at Izzy performing 14 years with Gnr in London, 85% of the audience cheered his name but looked completely lost when the song started!

Maybe we question everyone who wears a gnr shirt at a show , name 3 gnr songs! Case in point,

 

 

[PatrickS77]

7 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Maybe we question everyone who wears a gnr shirt at a show , name 3 gnr songs! Case in point,

 

 

Now that is fucking ridiculous. Wearing band shirts and not having a clue. These people should be ashamed. But that's the problem. They don't give a shit. So obviously they are not fans and never will be. But I do guess, at least some of them are just to high, drunk, stoned, whatever to remember and knew at one point.

Edited October 9, 2019 by PatrickS77

[PatrickS77]

18 minutes ago, izzy92 said:

Lol this convo is ridiculous, of course you can be a fan of a band without knowing every single song on every single album. If that was true, I'd only be a fan of two bands despite attending over 600 concerts by 180 different acts. Just because GnR has less to discover doesn't really mean anything, you're either going to try and dive into an artist's entire discography or not. You're also expecting people to remember and re-listen to tracks that they don't even enjoy...some people ONLY know SCOM and Welcome to the Jungle - probably a casual listener. Others know those, Paradise City, Nightrain, YCBM, November Rain...casual fan. Throw in Patience, Don't Cry, Estranged, KOHD and LALD and that is a solid, regular fan of the band. Anything more and you're hardcore! Probably 15-20% of the audience at a given show know more than those songs. Just look at Izzy performing 14 years with Gnr in London, 85% of the audience cheered his name but looked completely lost when the song started!

But that's the point. If you only enjoy 2 songs, then you are not a fan of the band. You are a fan of those 2 songs, but not of the band, because then you would also enjoy the other songs. And if you enjoy other songs but don't know them, then you are just a casual listener and not really a fan.

[izzy92]

3 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

But that's the point. If you only enjoy 2 songs, then you are not a fan of the band. You are a fan of those 2 songs, but not of the band, because then you would also enjoy the other songs. And if you enjoy other songs but don't know them, then you are just a casual listener and not really a fan.

I don't think with a band who went from sounding like Aerosmith to Nine Inch Nails that liking every song they've done is realistic...half of the stuff on Illusions and Chidem is unlistenable. Half the band doesn't and didn't even like those songs, care about them, or even feel they were worthy of being on the album. Even if it was strictly being a fan of the artist, if they lose integrity you can't even have that excuse for 'liking' the songs

[Guest]

wait what they played Loco....????….

[rebeldhipi]

As a fan i cannot understand bitching about the gig being too long.

Im a fan and when i pay 100 bucks or more to see a gig. Sure as hell im not sad that they played most of my favorite songs last year. Quite the opposite. I was hoping to get the same dream setlist as in the la forum 2017.

I saw nine inch nails a few years back and i was a bit dissaponted they only played 1h20min. 

[Azifwekare]

I don't get people who only go to a show to see 'the hits'. Of course you can be a fan of an artist and go to a show without knowing or even liking all of the catalog, and I understand 'casuals' who may tag along with a friend who's a 'bigger fan', but I've never understood why someone would spend the money and logistical effort to get to a show where they are only insterested in a couple of songs.

$100 for a ticket and leave after SCOM? Wtf?

Surely there would be other shows that would be more worthwile for them?

[PatrickS77]

35 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

As a fan i cannot understand bitching about the gig being too long.

Im a fan and when i pay 100 bucks or more to see a gig. Sure as hell im not sad that they played most of my favorite songs last year. Quite the opposite. I was hoping to get the same dream setlist as in the la forum 2017.

I saw nine inch nails a few years back and i was a bit dissaponted they only played 1h20min. 

Exactly. Bitiching about it is totally alien to me. Especially in this day an age, as shows constantly seem to get shorter (while the artists are getting older).

[jekylhyde]

Having a different opinion ≠ bitching.

[zigzagbigbag]

2 hours ago, Tadsy said:

 

Locomotive being played should give every hardcore fan hope that the band still have some setlist tricks up their sleeves in the future! Personally I’d love to see an acoustic set or something later on down the line but for now I’m certainly not complaining. 

 

Damn, this band/brand played the same show for three years and now finally has dusted off ONE single deep cut and you are seriously talking about „setlist tricks“?! It’s ridiculous. 😄

[adamsapple]

Maybe they should just play the greatest hits all in the first hour and then when the see and be seen crowds are going home we're having a party with the band playing deep cuts, jams and new songs for two more hours.

[RussTCB]

59 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

Maybe they should just play the greatest hits all in the first hour and then when the see and be seen crowds are going home we're having a party with the band playing deep cuts, jams and new songs for two more hours.

Roger Waters used to do Another Brick Part II second in his setlist for a while. I saw his 99 - 01 tours several times and I shit you not, I saw more than a few people leave soon after Brick II. 

Like.... Seriously?? I know ticket prices were way lower back then, but still. I can't believe people would pay any amount of money to hear under 5 songs then leave. 

On a GN'R related note; I've seen TONS of people leave after the main set at pretty much every show I've ever been to. 

[baldek]

Personally I've never left an event earlier, whether it's a concert, football match, etc. 

I think of it as a mix between having a good time and respect for those you are watching (god knows how hard that is in football sometimes). However, who am I to tell someone else that 150$ is an expensive price to see one or two songs live? It's all about the personal experience and how much you're willing to pay for it. For most of us the experience ends at Paradise City, for others after SCOM.

It's all good - we're happy, they're happy and the legacy of GN'R lives on.

[alfierose]

I was surprised at the London show how many people bailed after SCOM - it was like a mass exodus, I understand the only there to hear the classics crowd but if you love SCOM surely you also love PC? I get that people can do as they please and the odd few probably have early trains to catch or something but it does feel a bit off when you see it, but their loss so whatever I guess.