Unpopular Opinion: UYI Production Made GNR Biggest Band in the World

[dogman]

Right now I'm listening to the Hell Revisited tracks (for those who don't know, basically just a bunch of demos) and it occurred to me that the production on the UYI albums helped propel GNR into one of the biggest bands in the world, at the time.  

It is the opinion of many that the UYI albums are overproduced and over-bloated.  While I can see that arguement (YCBM sometimes sounds too "glossy" to me), I also think it was required.  Not only required, but it actually helped the songs.  I just listened to the Don't Cry and November Rain demos, and while we all know these songs are good at the demo level, they were definitely not hits.  Even if produced like AFD, I don't think these songs, or the other big hits from the UYIs would have been as popular as they became.  

Yes, we all love a more raw and energetic version of the band, but I don't think GNR would have become as huge as they did if UYI was produced like AFD.  The songs on UYI NEEDED to be produced the way they were to showcase they grandiosity or epicness, for a lack of a better word. 

Like many others, I'd love to hear a less produced version of the album someday.  However, the point I'm making is I don't think a lesser produced album would have made the band as big as they became after UYIs were released.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

NR demo (both of them - acoustic and just axl on piano) are actually a lot better than the studio recorded album one = this is at a pure music level 

 

also locomotive demo with adler on it - mates rehearsal sounds like it has 100 times more chops than the studio one as well 

Edited October 1, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[El Nono Pololo]

To be fair, if they hadn't spent so long tinkering with those songs in the studio, UYI could've been released in 1990 instead of a few days shy of Nirvana's Nevermind changing the music scene for the rest of the decade and signaling the end of the hair-metal scene. Better timing would've made both albums sale even more copies and have an even bigger impact. But that's just my 2 cents...

[History2010]

I like the albums just fine as they are. but I would love a remaster in the vein as last year's AFD remaster (louder, fuller sound, more clarity)

 

a Use Your Illusion... Naked  would be cool for curiosity sake as well. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by History2010

[StrangerInThisTown]

I'd like to hear the rawer tracks Slash raved about in his book that we never got to hear. That rough mix of 14 years is pretty baller

[guitarpatch]

They were the biggest band in the world before the albums dropped. The anticipation was probably the best thing about the release 

I wish they let Sorum flesh out the songs more. Instead they pretty much threw him in the studio to get basic tracks done. You got a very straightforward performance as a result 

[dogman]

39 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

NR demo (both of them - acoustic and just axl on piano) are actually a lot better than the studio recorded album one = this is at a pure music level 

 

also locomotive demo with adler on it - mates rehearsal sounds like it has 100 times more chops than the studio one as well 

This may be true on a music level.  But in terms of popularity and grabbing the attention of the mass public, certainly not.  I don't think there's any arguing the success NR, DC, KOHD, YCBM had when they were released.  If it wasn't for the production, I don't think these songs become as popular as they did.

[bdinan]

I personally never really felt the illusions were OVERproduced. I felt they were nicely produced. Yes, a lot of songs were bloated, bombastic, and had a lot going on, but I never felt anything was out of place. I have heard "rawer" versions of some of the songs, and they're good. I think the "epic" production of certain songs - namely November Rain and Estranged, really works for those songs.

 

[2020_Intensions]

Axl's tinkering is what made a lot of those songs great rather than "ok" ... I like the albums just the way they are! 

[KTucker53]

I agree and dont agree as well.  It depends on the song, I really wish dont cry didnt feature shannon on it.   One of the reasons I prefer to have the live era version on my playlist.   Also the production killed pretty tired up for me, way too many vocal layers where as I love axl singing this in tokyo!   Some songs tho I agree, november rain definitely is an amazing song with the production.   The extra shit going on in coma I think makes portions of the song just feel cheesy.   But to each their own.

[Lethalis]

Unpopular opinion: GnR had a reputation, lots of people were talking about them, etc.

They caused friggin' riots.

Of course the music is good, but it's only a part of why they were so big.

Marilyn Manson actually became a marketing specialist of sorts after he interviewed Trent Reznor and started doing a lot of things on purpose to piss people off.

And it worked.

[Ant]

The actually mixing/mastering aspect of the production is separate from the scale/arrangements of the songs.

With Izzy and Steven being checked out, they weren't ever going to get that 5 guys in a room interplay that makes AFD such a unique thing. With that in mind UYI makes perfect sense, scale wise.

The only thing that sucks is the glossy tinny sound and some of the extraneous layers... Like said above Pretty Tied Up is such a cool song, an Izzy classic, buried by production choices. It should feel loose lean and tossed off.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ant

[h2sublime]

Unpopular opinion, the sheer diversity, production, and musicality of the songs throughout the Illusions and Axl’s brilliant lyrics actually make the Illusions the best set of Guns material ever crafted.

[tbaugerud]

Fantastic albums. Musically, lyrically and even the cover art.

[jamillos]

I like UYIs exactly the way they are. What I don't like too much is the sound of the UYI Tokyo DVD video. 

[Sydney Fan]

4 hours ago, jamillos said:

I like UYIs exactly the way they are. What I don't like too much is the sound of the UYI Tokyo DVD video. 

I dont like axls 150 costune changes but what can you do?.

[Sydney Fan]

My 2 cents worth. The reason the band hit the stratosphere before anyone heard the albums was YCBM clip and the fact it was in T2 movie sealed the success.Then the albums drop and the band kept the success because of touring and most importantly NR video.

It was a pain waiting for the albums. There was no official release date  and most music rock magazines providing updates were a month behind.  It was an agonising wait. 

7 hours ago, Ant said:

The actually mixing/mastering aspect of the production is separate from the scale/arrangements of the songs.

With Izzy and Steven being checked out, they weren't ever going to get that 5 guys in a room interplay that makes AFD such a unique thing. With that in mind UYI makes perfect sense, scale wise.

The only thing that sucks is the glossy tinny sound and some of the extraneous layers... Like said above Pretty Tied Up is such a cool song, an Izzy classic, buried by production choices. It should feel loose lean and tossed off.

The band were all recording together just not with axl present. He did his vocals later.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

I don't think they are really overproduced at all. My only complaints are the lack of Izzy and bass drum.

[appetite4illusions]

I don't think it's the production of UYI, I think it's the fact that Steve Thompson and Mike Barbiero blew up and didn't get to work their magic, a second time.

Those two guys were the real unsung heroes of AFD and I can only imagine how much more dynamic UYI would have been if it was mixed by them.

[DTJ80]

9 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

I don't think it's the production of UYI, I think it's the fact that Steve Thompson and Mike Barbiero blew up and didn't get to work their magic, a second time.

Those two guys were the real unsung heroes of AFD and I can only imagine how much more dynamic UYI would have been if it was mixed by them.

When you say ‘blew up’ do you mean their relationship broke down?

[appetite4illusions]

Yeah, they always had a very contentious relationship and were very different people, but by all accounts, the experience of making Metallica's And Justice For All... album was the last straw.

It's funny, And Justice For All... is very much its own story, but it's interesting that Metallica chose to use Mike Clink AND Thompson and Barbiero for that album. Obviously, Lars was very infatuated with GN'R and how great AFD sounded so he went ahead and got that whole team to make their next album...and not only is the album notorious for how poor it sounds, it broke up the relationship of the two guys who were the lightening-in-the-bottle for GN'R

[DTJ80]

18 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

Yeah, they always had a very contentious relationship and were very different people, but by all accounts, the experience of making Metallica's And Justice For All... album was the last straw.

It's funny, And Justice For All... is very much its own story, but it's interesting that Metallica chose to use Mike Clink AND Thompson and Barbiero for that album. Obviously, Lars was very infatuated with GN'R and how great AFD sounded so he went ahead and got that whole team to make their next album...and not only is the album notorious for how poor it sounds, it broke up the relationship of the two guys who were the lightening-in-the-bottle for GN'R

Oh yes, AJFA is an oddity....however, as so much time has now passed to hear it any other way would be weird. It’s not a case of how bad it sounds but different. That’s a whole different convo however! Interesting to hear about the break-up however - I wasn’t aware. Cheers. 👍

[BrayWyatt]

The illusion albums made Guns N' Roses into one of the two biggest bands on the planet at the time, along with U2.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

1 hour ago, appetite4illusions said:

Yeah, they always had a very contentious relationship and were very different people, but by all accounts, the experience of making Metallica's And Justice For All... album was the last straw.

It's funny, And Justice For All... is very much its own story, but it's interesting that Metallica chose to use Mike Clink AND Thompson and Barbiero for that album. Obviously, Lars was very infatuated with GN'R and how great AFD sounded so he went ahead and got that whole team to make their next album...and not only is the album notorious for how poor it sounds, it broke up the relationship of the two guys who were the lightening-in-the-bottle for GN'R

Yeah I thought a lot of that had to do with Lars overstepping his role and making mixing/production choices like turning Jason down and getting those tinny drum sounds.

[soon]

2 hours ago, appetite4illusions said:

I don't think it's the production of UYI, I think it's the fact that Steve Thompson and Mike Barbiero blew up and didn't get to work their magic, a second time.

Those two guys were the real unsung heroes of AFD and I can only imagine how much more dynamic UYI would have been if it was mixed by them.

I think there is a lot of truth to this^^^

14 hours ago, dogman said:

Right now I'm listening to the Hell Revisited tracks (for those who don't know, basically just a bunch of demos) and it occurred to me that the production on the UYI albums helped propel GNR into one of the biggest bands in the world, at the time.  

It is the opinion of many that the UYI albums are overproduced and over-bloated.  While I can see that arguement (YCBM sometimes sounds too "glossy" to me), I also think it was required.  Not only required, but it actually helped the songs.  I just listened to the Don't Cry and November Rain demos, and while we all know these songs are good at the demo level, they were definitely not hits.  Even if produced like AFD, I don't think these songs, or the other big hits from the UYIs would have been as popular as they became.  

Yes, we all love a more raw and energetic version of the band, but I don't think GNR would have become as huge as they did if UYI was produced like AFD.  The songs on UYI NEEDED to be produced the way they were to showcase they grandiosity or epicness, for a lack of a better word. 

Like many others, I'd love to hear a less produced version of the album someday.  However, the point I'm making is I don't think a lesser produced album would have made the band as big as they became after UYIs were released.

What Ive heard from some people who were fans at the time of release is that the albums were so anticipated that theyd be huge anyways. And that the production and presence of slow ballads actually lost them a not-insignificant part of their already rabid fan base.

I think that the over production is real. But to your point, I think that the trilogy and KOHD benefited from the over production. However I also think that the entire rest of the 2 albums suffers from it. Ive heard NR on one of the soothing office music playlists/radio things at the dentist and the sonics fit right in with all that stuff. So mission accomplished, but its as if the entire album was produced around getting NR, DC and KOHD onto mainstream radio. Fuck me, RNDTH and PC are gutted by all that high end sheen.

I think one could argue that a hit ballad in the vein of SCOM would have suffered far less backlash then NR and DC in the grunge era. And I suppose that Fall to Pieces in a way demonstrated that years later. 

So, yes NR made them huge and its production is as it should be, but imho the overall production style both neutered the rest of the tracks and made GNR seem passe soon after.

Edited October 1, 2019 by soon