dogman Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, soon said: I think there is a lot of truth to this^^^ What Ive heard from some people who were fans at the time of release is that the albums were so anticipated that theyd be huge anyways. And that the production and presence of slow ballads actually lost them a not-insignificant part of their already rabid fan base. I think that the over production is real. But to your point, I think that the trilogy and KOHD benefited from the over production. However I also think that the entire rest of the 2 albums suffers from it. Ive heard NR on one of the soothing office music playlists/radio things at the dentist and the sonics fit right in with all that stuff. So mission accomplished, but its as if the entire album was produced around getting NR, DC and KOHD onto mainstream radio. Fuck me, RNDTH and PC are gutted by all that high end sheen. I think one could argue that a hit ballad in the vein of SCOM would have suffered far less backlash then NR and DC in the grunge era. And I suppose that Fall to Pieces in a way demonstrated that years later. So, yes NR made them huge and its production is as it should be, but imho the overall production style both neutered the rest of the tracks and made GNR seem passe soon after. I hear what you’re saying and pretty much agree. Would it have made for an inconsistent album if the trilogy and KOHD were produced as they were, but then produce and mix the rockers with a more AFD sound? Wonder how that would have affected the overall sound of the albums. Has any band ever produced songs differently on the same album before? Hell, I don’t know if it’s the production or what, but in terms of consistency ChiDem sounds so inconsistent. Twat, IRS, Catcher all sound incredibly dated, yet you have songs like Better, Shackler’s, and Sorry that all sound much more modern. As we now know, all of those songs were written in the same era yet they sound like they were from completely different eras on the final album! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 41 minutes ago, soon said: I think there is a lot of truth to this^^^ What Ive heard from some people who were fans at the time of release is that the albums were so anticipated that theyd be huge anyways. And that the production and presence of slow ballads actually lost them a not-insignificant part of their already rabid fan base. I think that the over production is real. But to your point, I think that the trilogy and KOHD benefited from the over production. However I also think that the entire rest of the 2 albums suffers from it. Ive heard NR on one of the soothing office music playlists/radio things at the dentist and the sonics fit right in with all that stuff. So mission accomplished, but its as if the entire album was produced around getting NR, DC and KOHD onto mainstream radio. Fuck me, RNDTH and PC are gutted by all that high end sheen. I think one could argue that a hit ballad in the vein of SCOM would have suffered far less backlash then NR and DC in the grunge era. And I suppose that Fall to Pieces in a way demonstrated that years later. So, yes NR made them huge and its production is as it should be, but imho the overall production style both neutered the rest of the tracks and made GNR seem passe soon after. When I listen to the rockers I don't hear a band that is neutering itself, I mean...Right Next Door to Hell, Perfect Crime, Don't Damn Me or an epic rocker like Coma...that doesn't sound like a band neutering itself. I pay no attention to what grunge reactionaries think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papashaun Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I read an article at one point, that focused on the build up to the "Use Your Illusion" releases. It basically stated that the anticipation was so high, the next GnR album was expected to challenge Michael Jackson's Thriller in terms of US sales...But, this was prior to finding out that this would be a Double Album release, and the article focused on the album being a single studio album, which was what everyone thought they were getting at that period in time. All in all, last time I checked the albums combined had sold around 14-15 Million US copies. That's still not bad at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, papashaun said: I read an article at one point, that focused on the build up to the "Use Your Illusion" releases. It basically stated that the anticipation was so high, the next GnR album was expected to challenge Michael Jackson's Thriller in terms of US sales...But, this was prior to finding out that this would be a Double Album release, and the article focused on the album being a single studio album, which was what everyone thought they were getting at that period in time. All in all, last time I checked the albums combined had sold around 14-15 Million US copies. That's still not bad at all! Isn't it actually higher? Sometimes the RIAA takes forever to update record sales, it seems like the UYI's are being sold short by a few million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, dogman said: I hear what you’re saying and pretty much agree. Would it have made for an inconsistent album if the trilogy and KOHD were produced as they were, but then produce and mix the rockers with a more AFD sound? Wonder how that would have affected the overall sound of the albums. Has any band ever produced songs differently on the same album before? Hell, I don’t know if it’s the production or what, but in terms of consistency ChiDem sounds so inconsistent. Twat, IRS, Catcher all sound incredibly dated, yet you have songs like Better, Shackler’s, and Sorry that all sound much more modern. As we now know, all of those songs were written in the same era yet they sound like they were from completely different eras on the final album! Yeah, totally. They needed to produce the albums in a consistent way. And in my theory they chose to favour the epic ballads for the most part. Thats something that preoccupies my thoughts about any possible new release, too. If theres CD leftovers they are currently produced in a very big, layered, modern, epic way that we've not really heard from Slash and Duff - So could they do an album of CD plus new compositions? Would new tracks need to be produced CD style to sound like a consistent album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F*ck Fear Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) Appetite For Destruction made Guns N' Roses the biggest band in the world. Edited October 1, 2019 by F*ck Fear 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksks12 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 A matter of music taste. Imho overproduced ( at least so called rockers), a filler or two too many (shotgun blues, get in the ring), and most of all the thing that really annoyed me was low volume of Izzys guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 hours ago, guitarpatch said: They were the biggest band in the world before the albums dropped. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 hours ago, dogman said: This may be true on a music level. But in terms of popularity and grabbing the attention of the mass public, certainly not. I don't think there's any arguing the success NR, DC, KOHD, YCBM had when they were released. If it wasn't for the production, I don't think these songs become as popular as they did. UYI are weird.. The production is great on some songs and sucks on others... The songs you mentioned all came out great aside from KOHD.. That version is pure garbage.. Almost as bad as the NITL version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 16 hours ago, KTucker53 said: The extra shit going on in coma I think makes portions of the song just feel cheesy. Agree... Most of the extra things Axl added came off as cheesy on those records.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, ksks12 said: A matter of music taste. Imho overproduced ( at least so called rockers), a filler or two too many (shotgun blues, get in the ring), and most of all the thing that really annoyed me was low volume of Izzys guitar. I love Shotgun Blues and Get In The Ring!!!! I think the volume of Izzy's guitar had a negative impact on some of teh rockers and do make them sound "neutered" to a certain extent.. If all the rockers were all mixed like YCBM it would have sounded much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnR Chris Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, El Nono Pololo said: To be fair, if they hadn't spent so long tinkering with those songs in the studio, UYI could've been released in 1990 instead of a few days shy of Nirvana's Nevermind changing the music scene for the rest of the decade and signaling the end of the hair-metal scene. Better timing would've made both albums sale even more copies and have an even bigger impact. But that's just my 2 cents... The narrative that Nevermind changed the musical landscape forever is fake news. GNR continued to be the biggest rock band in the world. They were all over MTV in 1992. They had a huge midnight release of the Illusions records in 1991. And they were huge up until they finished their Illusions touring in 1993, put out a covers record and disappeared. Their disappearance had nothing to do with Nirvana. Nirvana never even headlined a large-scale tour. GNR were the band that killed hair metal because they transcended that Sunset Strip genre. Grunge scene was bubbling under the surface for years prior to Nirvana became the media's ambassador's for it. And really, what changed post-Nirvana? Grunge lasted for a couple years, gave way to alternative then rap/rock. Guns N' Roses was never more popular than they were during the Use Your Illusions tour. Which is wild to think about, because it means more people were exposed to GNR without Izzy than with Izzy. Edited October 1, 2019 by GnR Chris 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, GnR Chris said: The narrative that Nevermind changed the musical landscape forever is fake news. GNR continued to be the biggest rock band in the world. They were all over MTV in 1992. They had a huge midnight release of the Illusions records in 1991. And they were huge up until they finished their Illusions touring in 1993, put out a covers record and disappeared. Their disappearance had nothing to do with Nirvana. Nirvana never even headlined their own tour. GNR were the band that killed hair metal, not the last remnants of hair metal. Grunge scene was bubbling under the surface for years prior to Nirvana became the media's ambassador's for it. And really, what changed post-Nirvana? Grunge lasted for a couple years, gave way to alternative then rap/rock. What did you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said: aside from KOHD.. That version is pure garbage.. What is it with KOHD.... first the album version with the phone call, then the UYI reggae, followed by the interminable NITL version... Edited October 1, 2019 by Ant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there is no dana only zool Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Agree that the production was perfect & spotless. Have never really understood the argument that they were bloated or had filler. As the excellent and MIA poster Indiana Rose said, “the Illusion albums were monsters...” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draguns Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, GnR Chris said: The narrative that Nevermind changed the musical landscape forever is fake news. GNR continued to be the biggest rock band in the world. They were all over MTV in 1992. They had a huge midnight release of the Illusions records in 1991. And they were huge up until they finished their Illusions touring in 1993, put out a covers record and disappeared. Their disappearance had nothing to do with Nirvana. Nirvana never even headlined a large-scale tour. GNR were the band that killed hair metal because they transcended that Sunset Strip genre. Grunge scene was bubbling under the surface for years prior to Nirvana became the media's ambassador's for it. And really, what changed post-Nirvana? Grunge lasted for a couple years, gave way to alternative then rap/rock. Guns N' Roses was never more popular than they were during the Use Your Illusions tour. Which is wild to think about, because it means more people were exposed to GNR without Izzy than with Izzy. When Cobain passed away, I thought at the time and still think that MTV rewrote history regarding that band. I distinctly remember it was Pearl Jam that broke through before Nirvana. Due to the fact that Cobain was the first singer to pass away from the grunge scene, MTV made him more than he actually was. Edited October 1, 2019 by Draguns 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draguns Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ant said: What is it with KOHD.... first the album version with the phone call, then the UYI reggae, followed by the interminable NITL version... I actually like the Days of Thunder version for KOHD. Axl added a few more lyric to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzagbigbag Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said: This I think we already had this discussion a few weeks ago, didn’t we?! 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RONIN Posted October 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) Quote Getting Izzy to work hard on the album was like pulling fucking teeth. Everybody dreaded it. Nobody would go by the studio while he was there, because no one wanted to deal with it. He'd play something out of key, and we'd ask him to do it again, and he'd be like, "Why? l just did it."["I, Axl" Del James, RIP Magazine - 1992] Quote DANIEL PEARL: Axl was as unreliable a person as you could possibly imagine, but at the same time he was a good benefactor. I did three big videos with Andy Morahan for Guns N' Roses — "Don't Cry," "November Rain," and "Estranged" — and each one cost over a million dollars, God bless 'em. Quote DOUG GOLDSTEIN: The videos caused tension in the band. Axl would just not show up for a day of shooting, so it doubled the cost. He did that on every video. Everybody else in the band was upset about it, and Slash was the only one who spoke up. Quote ALAN NIVEN: The videos that were done under my watch totaled something like $500,000, of which half went into "Paradise City." I was told it cost $1.25 million to shoot "November Rain," which to me is a preposterous waste of money. Quote ANDY MORAHAN: I wanted to cry when I saw "Teen Spirit." I thought it was perfect. In a way, Guns N' Roses, myself, we became the dinosaurs, the kind of artists punk rockers hated. We'd become overblown and indulgent and kind of stupid, and then Nirvana happened and suddenly everything was grunge and cheap, and thank god for it, you know? Quote We just came to the conclusion that Izzy wasn't putting in the time we thought was necessary for the good of the band. It had been building up for a long time. And finally Izzy came out in the open with me and Axl and said he didn't want to deal with the work that was involved. So we decided to work with someone else [...] I just can't understand how he could let something like this fall apart. I mean the guy didn't want to tour or do videos; he hardly wanted to record. I just never thought he was one of those guys that this would happen with [Guitar World, February 1992] Quote Slash: I work with the band; I don't work with Axl when we record. I work with the band and we just jam the stuff live, and Axl goes in and spends... Well last time it was a year in the studio, just adding and adding. I don't necessarily agree with that, but Axl's so talented he can go in and whip it out like that. But everything has to be perfect. Sometimes some of his ideas - like a harmony or something - I can go along with, but all the additional stuff...'Use Your Illusion' sounded amazing when it was just the basic tracks. It was fucking great. But then by the time all the tracks were done it was like impossible to fucking mix it, and it came out sounding... The more stuff you put on tape, the less "big" it sounds. I tried to tell Axl that but he wouldn't listen. But I'm not gonna do it that way this time, and that's what we have to talk about. I have the rough mixes, which are more or less the basic tracks and the basic overdubs - very simplified and try - and those fucking rock! You could come over to my house and I'll play you "Use Your Illusion" before it went into the mixing stage, and you'd be like, "Fucking what?!" It's very brash. But this is before synthesizers and all this outside stuff got involved. [Guns N' Roses: Is It All Over? Does Anyone Care? Metal Hammer, November 1995]. Quote "The problem was with Izzy (Stradlin)," Slash says in the MusicRadar interview. "Because the album reached such gargantuan proportions as far as the production and complexity and the massive expectations [that] Izzy started to bow out. He was harder to find, because that was against his rock 'n' roll philosophy, which I totally agree with." "We got through the basic tracks and I think that's what gave the albums such a natural feel. But when we started getting into the time it took to do overdubs and vocals, he sorta disappeared." http://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-use-your-illusion-interview/ Quote "For the 'Use Your Illusion' albums, I was sober doing those tracks, and it was just frustrating. When you're sober and you gotta be someplace at four, and when other people come in at six or seven, and they're, like, not quite together, you find yourself thinking, why the fuck was I here at four? "For the basic tracks on 'Illusions', I was done with my stuff in about four or five weeks. That was easy. http://www.a-4-d.com/t571-1992-12-05-interview-with-izzy Quote When I have something I wanna do, I gotta do it. I like just doing it. I didn't like the complications that became such a part of daily life in Guns N' Roses. Sometimes for the simplest things to happen would take days. Time was so slow, you sat around for days just to do a photo shoot. Schedule it, get a phone call, it's been delayed. Reschedule it, get a phone call, it's been delayed again. That pattern could stretch out for weeks. On "Illusion", we did the basic tracks in about a month. Then there was a time lag of about a year before the vocals were finished. I went back to Indiana and painted the house. If you've got a group and people are focused, it just shouldn't take that long."http://ultimateclassicrock.com/izzy-stradlin-last-guns-n-roses-show/ Quote "On "Illusion" I did the basic tracks, then he did his tracks, like a month or two by himself. Then came Axl's vocal parts. I went back to Indiana. I'd been around for rehearsals, learning the songs and all that stuff. I didn't really listen to the record until it was out. When I finally did hear it, it was what I expected: The guitars were basically buried."Slash has accused you of turning in sloppily made demo tapes."That's not Slash talking. That's Axl talking and Slash repeating it. Axl did say the tapes weren't up to GNR standards. Well, in the beginning nobody owned an eight-track. All our tapes were made on a cassette player. Whatever, I'm credited with just about everything I wrote. I will say that Slash was much better at keeping tapes in order. He always labeled stuff." http://www.a-4-d.com/t570-1992-11-dd-interview-with-izzy Quote Listen, to sum it up, at a moment, I felt like scraping it all down to the bone. Do some rock n' roll. Stop complicating the thing with a six-piece brass band, three back up singers, the harpist and the pianist... Dizzy plays great, that's not the problem, but that's not rock n' roll... What Guns did well, and that I will always defend, is our erruption on the scene. You remember? Our songs were good too! But me, I wanted to go ahead. M: I felt like I couldn't hear your guitar in the final mix of the "Illusions". I: Yeah, what happened there? (laughs) They took two years to finish the two records, and at the end I don't even feel like listening to the final product. Not at all! In fact I listened to the records only after the concert at Wembley in August 91, and I freaked out: "Where the hell is my fucking guitar?" It's gone! From there I lost the little interest I had left in the G N' R enterprise. This and the stadium tour! http://www.a-4-d.com/t1659-1992-09-dd-interview-with-izzy Quote "Guns N' Roses was pure chaos," confesses Izzy. "The smallest thing could turn into a massive problem. You'd get pulled in one direction and then the other. It was really difficult keeping hold of where you were supposed to be going. What really bothered me was working on 'Use Your Illusion I and II'. It progressed really slowly. Each song kept being taken to bits and analysed again and again and remade and before you knew it was weeks and months had gone by. When we finally finished a song I'd forgotten how to play the others. Slowly but surely, I began to realise that I wanted to have less and less to do with it. When things went on and on I finally realised that I'd have to do something about it." http://www.a-4-d.com/t569-1992-11-dd-interview-with-izzy Quote M: Slash's position is "I haven't spent two years of my life giving birth to the "Illusions" albums to give up when the first incident comes around". I: Slash's forgetting that he didn't spend two years on these records. He spent like... hmmm, two months! Like all of us! Afterwards, we waited for a year for the other guy to write the lyrics, you see? So... But it all gets too complicated. Hey! Music! Rock'n'roll! After all, four guys write some songs, record them, and go play them in front of the public... Keep it simple. What about listening to the EP? http://www.a-4-d.com/t1659-1992-09-dd-interview-with-izzy Quote It was made clear to me by Axl that he and Slash would steer the machine, control the videos, the direction of the band, everything, and that I had to put up or step out," Stradlin says. "So I said, `Fine, I'll go home and paint."' http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-02-26/entertainment/9303185116_1_izzy-stradlin-axl-rose-rick-richards Quote "I tried talking to him," Stradlin says, "during the Illusion albums: 'If we had a schedule here, come in at a certain time...' And he completely blew up at me: 'There is no fucking schedule.'"There was one song on that record that I didn't even know was on it until it came out, 'My World' (the closing song on Illusion II, written and sung by Rose)," Stradlin continues. "I gave it a listen and thought, 'What the fuck is this?' "Stradlin concedes that the growing estrangement was partly his own fault. "I had to let go of certain aspects of it," he says. "I didn't feel my opinions were really being taken seriously anymore." When Guns N' Roses finally hit the road in May 1991, Stradlin traveled between shows in a separate tour bus. He failed to show up for the shooting of the video for "Don't Cry," saying now that the million-dollar cost of the clip was a pointless indulgence: "I didn't have any say in it, and I didn't want to be in it." "I expressed my feeling to Axl," he continues, "and the very next night on MTV I saw that I was going to be replaced by the guy in Jane's Addiction. So I took that as an indication that I'd really pissed him off." Stradlin insists that he never wanted to quit GN' R and pursue a solo career. "But Axl made it clear that he was going to do things his way, and there was no space for debate," he says. "So I had to make it clear to everybody that that was the end of the line for me." Two days before Thanksgiving, Guns N' Roses officially announced that Izzy Stradlin had left the group. http://www.a-4-d.com/t521-1992-10-29-interview-with-izzy Edited October 1, 2019 by RONIN 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Draguns said: When Cobain passed away, I thought at the time and still think that MTV rewrote history regarding that band. I distinctly remember it was Pearl Jam that broke through before Nirvana. Due to the fact that Cobain was the first singer to pass away from the grunge scene, MTV made him more than he actually was. It was Nirvana that broke first then Pearl Jam took the lead around 1993-4 then Kurt killed himself and it was back to Nirvana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draguns Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Nicklord said: It was Nirvana that broke first then Pearl Jam took the lead around 1993-4 then Kurt killed himself and it was back to Nirvana I do remember the radio stations in NYC playing Pearl Jam before Nirvana. I also remember watching Evenflow on MTV before Smells Like Teen Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Fan Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Tom-Ass said: This Think they were still popular because lies record was still getting airplay and patience single and video was still getting high rotation on music channels. 35 minutes ago, Draguns said: I do remember the radio stations in NYC playing Pearl Jam before Nirvana. I also remember watching Evenflow on MTV before Smells Like Teen Spirit. This. I remember seeing the video for even flow first before smells like...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaGun Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 UYI were PERFECT for their time. They both have something for everybody. Lots of misses, but band was at its creative peak. The tour kicked ass too. They were the biggest band in the world pre Nirvana for sure. 1 hour ago, Draguns said: I do remember the radio stations in NYC playing Pearl Jam before Nirvana. I also remember watching Evenflow on MTV before Smells Like Teen Spirit. Yeah. STP were huge back then too. Really hard to overstate how big that band was at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Ant said: What is it with KOHD.... first the album version with the phone call, then the UYI reggae, followed by the interminable NITL version... I don't mind the reggae one.. It started out with Izzy just playing a little reggae rhythm at first but then slowly got a little corny.. I still like it though.. That Chicago 92 version rips.. At Least I remember Slash ripping.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Creed said: you know that KOHD live at the Freddie Mercury Tribute is the theme of the UYI Tour, right? How does that pertain to my comment at all? Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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