Guns n Roses Ban Fan From Shows Due to Song Leaks (Link)

[Modano09]

On 10/13/2019 at 3:51 PM, RussTCB said:

Yeah. The story goes that they gave him the money to give back to the investors that helped him raise the $15k to buy the CDs. 

The idea was they they would all get their money back so, but not receive the contents of the CDs.

Needless to say, things do not go according to plan lol

So he took the money and leaked anyway? 

[Lio]

1 minute ago, Modano09 said:

So he took the money and leaked anyway? 

Not sure. Multiple people had the leaks. Rick's not the Chairman. So who knows.

[swishtz]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

You know what? You're right. Axl had a clear no-camera policy before. He had to accept it now that everyone has a camera in their pockets. It's time for the band to move on and embrace the Internet - and I'm not talking about giving the songs for free on MySpace, but trully explore the possibilities of new business models. Leaks happen, the way you deal with that is just offer an easy and official way to consume the same product.

This isn't embracing the internet, embracing the internet doesn't mean ignoring the rule of law, taking someone elses unfinished IP and deciding to distribute it because you want to, without the consent of the creator is just outrageous. Remember what Napster did to the music industry and revenues on music sales, then you all bitch why music on the most part is so absolute shit these days and concert tickets so high, why there are merch grabs everywhere too..... There are repercussions to these types of thoughts.

[Voodoochild]

12 minutes ago, swishtz said:

This isn't embracing the internet, embracing the internet doesn't mean ignoring the rule of law, taking someone elses unfinished IP and deciding to distribute it because you want to, without the consent of the creator is just outrageous. Remember what Napster did to the music industry and revenues on music sales, then you all bitch why music on the most part is so absolute shit these days and concert tickets so high, why there are merch grabs everywhere too..... There are repercussions to these types of thoughts.

I'm not saying the leaks are good or legal for the band. But it happens either they like it or not, so what they should do AFTER that is embrace the internet.

But since you brought the Napster thing: who do you know that still download illegal mp3 for regular commercial available music? Nobody gives a shit anymore about that, everyone can just use Spotify / Apple Music / YouTube or whatever. Music is more readly available and democratic than ever. I dont know about you, but I came from when you had to buy an entire album (and that wasnt cheap!) just because you liked one song. Often, it happens that the rest of the album were shit. The solution was to record cassete tapes with friends, but this is very limited in both quality and reach for new music. 

And I'm not even talking about how unfair and greedy were the labels. The artist wasn't the victim of what Napster did with the music industry, it was only the corporate side of incredibly greedy companies. This excact mentality is still behind the music industry, and that's why you complain about shit music (often tailored to an algorithm to catch short-attention spam kids on over-the-top plataforms) and concert tickets price.

[guitarpatch]

5 minutes ago, swishtz said:

This isn't embracing the internet, embracing the internet doesn't mean ignoring the rule of law, taking someone elses unfinished IP and deciding to distribute it because you want to, without the consent of the creator is just outrageous. Remember what Napster did to the music industry and revenues on music sales, then you all bitch why music on the most part is so absolute shit these days and concert tickets so high, why there are merch grabs everywhere too..... There are repercussions to these types of thoughts.

People wonder why there’s not much good rock in the “mainstream”. Rock music is about taking chances. The labels don’t take those chances anymore. The old model was centered around one success made up for your 10 failures. That luxury simply isn’t there and the label structure has moved on to mitigate those risks and take more proven revenues elsewhere.

Artists are now in the mode of maximizing their worth. It’s harder to sell out shows now than 10 yrs ago. Everyone is on the road longer than they should be and the product is watered down across the board. It’s not just a GNR problem. 

As far as the video/YouTube issues, who knows how far it goes in their camp. I think it’s obvious it starts there somewhere. I don’t agree with the stance at its core, I’m just not sure if that means any of the Big 3 are even aware of it. Hypothetically, I’d think the label and the band would love the revenue it would/could generate. 

Random fans who attend their shows are getting their vids pulled down. It has nothing to do with the forum crowd. That doesn’t help public perception for the band. It makes them look like dicks. You’d think they’d want this train to keep moving. It’s this type of behavior that makes people think twice about seeing them again. 

[Amaya]

@gunsguy.  You ask what would you do?  If I were AR, just sell clearner versions of the leaked songs on line. High produce it and even over producec it.. Sell it on line. Then there would be  no value in leaked material as in it is no big secret  nothing to talk about but for him, AR.   Truly the big days of big money in music sales has passed by this group even if they were to release a new cd on line. Next, whether it is Axl and his team, TB , or whoever , to stop pulling vids of clips from shows off line. Who does this? Other entertainers dont. Yes I understand copywrites , etc. and entertainers not selling their work for free. I really dont understand how you tube, Pandora , etc. works . I assume concert clips and song videos and songs are already paid for some kind of way or that there is not much money worthwhile in a show clip or song clip. For example, country music artists dont seem to mind . Ex. U2, Dave Matthews Band and many others don't seem to mind.   Ms. Meegan of Slash, who is GnR, even had her video or something pulled off her fb or instgram page. As she asked what is going on and said # that she was with the band. Actually, more than that. She is with the onwer, lol. He did not mind so who made that decision for him for his lady.  These unknown controllers are like Prince controlling vibes. He wanted no songs, no old vids, no concert clips on social media or youtube, etc.  He controled what did not need to be controlled. He should have controlled himself. He would be alive today.                            I agree with  @Route66 @Voodoochild

Edited October 16, 2019 by Amaya

[swishtz]

35 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not saying the leaks are good or legal for the band. But it happens either they like it or not, so what they should do AFTER that is embrace the internet.

But since you brought the Napster thing: who do you know that still download illegal mp3 for regular commercial available music? Nobody gives a shit anymore about that, everyone can just use Spotify / Apple Music / YouTube or whatever. Music is more readly available and democratic than ever. I dont know about you, but I came from when you had to buy an entire album (and that wasnt cheap!) just because you liked one song. Often, it happens that the rest of the album were shit. The solution was to record cassete tapes with friends, but this is very limited in both quality and reach for new music. 

And I'm not even talking about how unfair and greedy were the labels. The artist wasn't the victim of what Napster did with the music industry, it was only the corporate side of incredibly greedy companies. This excact mentality is still behind the music industry, and that's why you complain about shit music (often tailored to an algorithm to catch short-attention spam kids on over-the-top plataforms) and concert tickets price.

They embrace the internet within the parameters they should, not in a manner where bootlegs of private material get leaked by chancers, that's not the internet that's the wild west.

Why do you think Apple Music/Spotify all exist and the artists now make fuck all on record sales ? I came from the 80's so i know all about standing in line to buy a new record, recording off thee radio, all that stuff. The artist absolutely was the victim of Napster, A&R is now fucked, record label investment in artist development is now fucked, a #1 record meaning anything like it used to is now fucked.  Everything is about a quick buck, low spend, look at music videos these days vs what used to be the norm, money got sucked out of the industry, it has been redistributed to the elite through touring and merchandising, VIP' tours, meet & greets etc etc. Oh i know what i am talking about because this is my industry. And who do i know still downloading things illegally ? Ever heard of torrents ?  Your generalisations are incredulous. Entire albums shit, no one downloading illegally, artists not suffering from people stealing their work, please do your research before interjecting . 

 

https://ibb.co/C9XMVHr

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/music-industry-sales/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/oct/09/more-than-one-third-global-music-consumers-pirate-music

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17963804/music-modernization-act-mma-copyright-law-bill-labels-congress

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-200-best-albums-of-the-1980s/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-best-albums-of-the-90s-152425/

Edited October 15, 2019 by swishtz

[Azifwekare]

45 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not saying the leaks are good or legal for the band. But it happens either they like it or not, so what they should do AFTER that is embrace the internet.

But since you brought the Napster thing: who do you know that still download illegal mp3 for regular commercial available music? Nobody gives a shit anymore about that, everyone can just use Spotify / Apple Music / YouTube or whatever. Music is more readly available and democratic than ever. I dont know about you, but I came from when you had to buy an entire album (and that wasnt cheap!) just because you liked one song. Often, it happens that the rest of the album were shit. The solution was to record cassete tapes with friends, but this is very limited in both quality and reach for new music. 

And I'm not even talking about how unfair and greedy were the labels. The artist wasn't the victim of what Napster did with the music industry, it was only the corporate side of incredibly greedy companies. This excact mentality is still behind the music industry, and that's why you complain about shit music (often tailored to an algorithm to catch short-attention spam kids on over-the-top plataforms) and concert tickets price.

Plus the fact that back then labels seriously overcharged for music just because they could. Once Napster/iTunes/etc became popular, sales went down and entertainment stores went out of business, they put a stop to that pretty sharpish. I remember when CDs cost twice the amount that they do now, easy.

The only reason vinyl is being pushed so hard nowadays is because labels can use it to rinse collectors dry. A vinyl LP that cost £4 on release in the 80s now gets reissued today for £40.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Azifwekare

[Legendador]

I'm sorry if my opinion goes against everyone's in here, but I think the band is right.

Imagine you have a business, and you sell something, but then you're not completely happy with the outcome of your product, so you stop selling it until you feel it is right.

Then you stop selling it for 10 years, someone keeps asking for the product for themselves, they are not happy about it, and then they "find" some of the product that was not supposed to be sold in a storage. OK.

But now they sell the thing and also BRAG about it.

The thing that nobody understand is: why bother to release something else? We already have a full CD of "new" songs with vocals, and a double CD of instrumentals, b-sides, rarities, alt.versions and so on.

The 19 CDs feature more music than the band have released in 20 years! So why bother.

Yes, I think the leakers and everybody else that downloaded the leaks tarnished the whole thing.

By the time (and if) they release Hardschool, Perhaps, Atlas, As It Begin properly they will feel as old as the 2006 Better!

It is a shame because it is getting really confusing: we have like 3 to 4 versions of each song, I don't think we as fans can tell them apart anymore.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Modano09 said:

So he took the money and leaked anyway? 

He says he didn't leak anything, so I truly don't know what happened. 

[swishtz]

11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

He says he didn't leak anything, so I truly don't know what happened. 

Back onto the topic of the attention seeking guy, not only does he rustle up $15k for music , drive 19 hours (none of this smacks of innocent behaviour) when challenged, rather than be concerned or eat a bit of humble pie, he baits the band and runs around self promoting what a big shot he is. I dont know whether he leaked anything or not, but he doesn't seem innocent and if he keeps prodding he may find himself having to explain himself in court.

[ChildOfTheMoon]

The thing is, if I was a musician and my music was leaked on the wilds of the internet without my permission, I would be pretty pissed. If Axl did not release the material it was because he thought it wasn’t good enough, wasn’t ready, whatever.

That said, once it was out there’s not much you can do about it, you’re chasing the dragon, like Metallica was with Napster. And it’s not that the new GNR album was leaked, one that’s ready to go. As far as I know, it’s music from 100 years ago, instrumental, unfinished, played with random people. This is the kind of stuff that’s only interesting to people like us here, the general public doesn’t care, they don’t even bother to stay after the band plays SCOM for christ sake! I’m not particularly interested in these pieces of music from that bizarre era, the only thing I’ve listened was Hardschool because you talked so much about it.

So, imo Axl should let it go, live his life, be happy with his buddies, write new music and forget about Rick and that ridiculous ban. Just learn to choose your battles, this one doesn’t worth it. And be careful with your stuff next time so it doesn’t happen again. 

[Gnfnr4L]

31 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I'm sorry if my opinion goes against everyone's in here, but I think the band is right.

Imagine you have a business, and you sell something, but then you're not completely happy with the outcome of your product, so you stop selling it until you feel it is right.

Then you stop selling it for 10 years, someone keeps asking for the product for themselves, they are not happy about it, and then they "find" some of the product that was not supposed to be sold in a storage. OK.

But now they sell the thing and also BRAG about it.

The thing that nobody understand is: why bother to release something else? We already have a full CD of "new" songs with vocals, and a double CD of instrumentals, b-sides, rarities, alt.versions and so on.

The 19 CDs feature more music than the band have released in 20 years! So why bother.

Yes, I think the leakers and everybody else that downloaded the leaks tarnished the whole thing.

By the time (and if) they release Hardschool, Perhaps, Atlas, As It Begin properly they will feel as old as the 2006 Better!

It is a shame because it is getting really confusing: we have like 3 to 4 versions of each song, I don't think we as fans can tell them apart anymore.

I agree 100%  What I think will happen is Slash & DUFF will re-record the songs that leaked, with the rest of the band as well.   I think the band and record company are eager to release new music, it’s just when is the right time for both parties.

[guitarpatch]

10 minutes ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

The thing is, if I was a musician and my music was leaked on the wilds of the internet without my permission, I would be pretty pissed. If Axl did not release the material it was because he thought it wasn’t good enough, wasn’t ready, whatever.

That said, once it was out there’s not much you can do about it, you’re chasing the dragon, like Metallica was with Napster. And it’s not that the new GNR album was leaked, one that’s ready to go. As far as I know, it’s music from 100 years ago, instrumental, unfinished, played with random people. This is the kind of stuff that’s only interesting to people like us here, the general public doesn’t care, they don’t even bother to stay after the band plays SCOM for christ sake! I’m not particularly interested in these pieces of music from that bizarre era, the only thing I’ve listened was Hardschool because you talked so much about it.

So, imo Axl should let it go, live his life, be happy with his buddies, write new music and forget about Rick and that ridiculous ban. Just learn to choose your battles, this one doesn’t worth it. And be careful with your stuff next time so it doesn’t happen again. 

You assume Axl knows about any of this in detail. Let alone he himself demanding a ban. That could simply come just from mgmt for example. We don’t know the extent of it. To comment at this point is a bit unfair. 

Im sure it sucks to have music that wasn’t meant for public critique/consumption suddenly made available. I also don’t think it’s fair to ask for an artist to simply “get over it”. He’s can feel whatever way he wants about it. It’s his songs...

There’s not much to compare between artists and how they’ve reacted. Different circumstances, different industry dynamics, etc... While I agree to an extent that it’s easier to play along in some instances, we don’t get to see the bottom line on what it affects. Perhaps they won’t even see it for another 5 yrs. Time will tell

Also we all want Axl to be this “don’t give a fuck” type of artist and be this rockstar, yet some constantly complain why he’s not doing things by the book and not acting within some type of perceived box. I just think it’s funny when people say “he should this or that”. People have been trying to make him do things for the majority of his life. Label executives, A&R, Promoters, Agents, Managers, etc... I don’t think that starts now 

[Voodoochild]

51 minutes ago, swishtz said:

They embrace the internet within the parameters they should, not in a manner where bootlegs of private material get leaked by chancers, that's not the internet that's the wild west.

Why do you think Apple Music/Spotify all exist and the artists now make fuck all on record sales ? I came from the 80's so i know all about standing in line to buy a new record, recording off thee radio, all that stuff. The artist absolutely was the victim of Napster, A&R is now fucked, record label investment in artist development is now fucked, a #1 record meaning anything like it used to is now fucked.  Everything is about a quick buck, low spend, look at music videos these days vs what used to be the norm, money got sucked out of the industry, it has been redistributed to the elite through touring and merchandising, VIP' tours, meet & greets etc etc. Oh i know what i am talking about because this is my industry. And who do i know still downloading things illegally ? Ever heard of torrents ?  Your generalisations are incredulous. Entire albums shit, no one downloading illegally, artists not suffering from people stealing their work, please do your research before interjecting . 

 

https://ibb.co/C9XMVHr

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/music-industry-sales/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/oct/09/more-than-one-third-global-music-consumers-pirate-music

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17963804/music-modernization-act-mma-copyright-law-bill-labels-congress

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-200-best-albums-of-the-1980s/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-best-albums-of-the-90s-152425/

I'm not sure why the need for such a harsh tone, but anyways.. 

When you say "do you research", do you mean that now I need to study before talking about this in a message board? 

I too came from the 80s. So you can guess my age and how I do not have time to include references and sources on every single opinion I have. Much less every single link you provided. But let's get The Guardian's article: they quote a report by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Their metodology's discription only talks about sample and demographic reach, but we don't know how it was conducted nor the content of the form/interviews. It's a report made for the record industry about how the record industry is suffering. The quote from the CIO in that report: "Record companies continue to develop, support and invest in music, playing a crucial role in ensuring that it continues on its exciting journey". I don't know about you, but I find this extremely questionable. They are considerable less necessary now and act more as gatekeepers. The new independent artists can reach a lot more people now without any big corporate behind it eating a large fee for every single piece of their work, including live performances. 

If the quality of the music scene today is not good, dont blame on piracy. The companies always maximize their profits by raising their margins, development of new and edgy artists were never a priority. They only have more control over the artists now. They demand songs to have chorus-verses-chorus structure. They demand the chorus to be written in the VI-IV-I-V chord progression. Even though bands like The Beatles, with several #1 singles on Billboard, only had one #1 hit with this very same progression (Let it Be). Dont tell me this is the only possible way to make a song profitable enough.

Of course I know about torrents. For albums? I dont have any report to back it up, but I assume they are irrelevant because it's not something needed (any file sharing service can handle a regular album) nor was it ever somehting as popular as things like Napster, Kazaa and the likes. This thing about torrent is not important however, I just wanted to point out. For developing countries like Brazil, tho, where the fixed broadband is only available for like 50% of the population (and still with assimetric distribution), this is not an option. DVDs and pendrives with MP3 are the majority of illegal music here. And one could still argue that, if not for the illegal access, a lot of those people would just move on and not consume the music at all.

 

But yeah, did I say every single album out there is entire shit? Did I say no one download music illegaly? Did I say artists dont suffer from people "stealing" their work?

When I said "embrace the Internet", I was talking about what the music business is now. I don't care who's fault was, Guns N' Roses as an entity is still making money out of this. They cant just ignore the new dynamics just because they came from another era when artists and record labels were a multimillionare industry (does an artist really need to be that rich anyways?). They got fucked by leaks, they can either ignore it, try to overcome it and profit with it somehow, or cause a PR fuck up. GNR chose this last one. 

But since you were so kind in doing a research for me, I recommend this video with a new and relevant artist (dont worry, it's not about the quality of her music) and how her strategy works in the current industry environment: 

 

 

[swishtz]

11 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not sure why the need for such a harsh tone, but anyways.. 

When you say "do you research", do you mean that now I need to study before talking about this in a message board? 

I too came from the 80s. So you can guess my age and how I do not have time to include references and sources on every single opinion I have. Much less every single link you provided. But let's get The Guardian's article: they quote a report by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Their metodology's discription only talks about sample and demographic reach, but we don't know how it was conducted nor the content of the form/interviews. It's a report made for the record industry about how the record industry is suffering. The quote from the CIO in that report: "Record companies continue to develop, support and invest in music, playing a crucial role in ensuring that it continues on its exciting journey". I don't know about you, but I find this extremely questionable. They are considerable less necessary now and act more as gatekeepers. The new independent artists can reach a lot more people now without any big corporate behind it eating a large fee for every single piece of their work, including live performances. 

If the quality of the music scene today is not good, dont blame on piracy. The companies always maximize their profits by raising their margins, development of new and edgy artists were never a priority. They only have more control over the artists now. They demand songs to have chorus-verses-chorus structure. They demand the chorus to be written in the VI-IV-I-V chord progression. Even though bands like The Beatles, with several #1 singles on Billboard, only had one #1 hit with this very same progression (Let it Be). Dont tell me this is the only possible way to make a song profitable enough.

Of course I know about torrents. For albums? I dont have any report to back it up, but I assume they are irrelevant because it's not something needed (any file sharing service can handle a regular album) nor was it ever somehting as popular as things like Napster, Kazaa and the likes. This thing about torrent is not important however, I just wanted to point out. For developing countries like Brazil, tho, where the fixed broadband is only available for like 50% of the population (and still with assimetric distribution), this is not an option. DVDs and pendrives with MP3 are the majority of illegal music here. And one could still argue that, if not for the illegal access, a lot of those people would just move on and not consume the music at all.

 

But yeah, did I say every single album out there is entire shit? Did I say no one download music illegaly? Did I say artists dont suffer from people "stealing" their work?

When I said "embrace the Internet", I was talking about what the music business is now. I don't care who's fault was, Guns N' Roses as an entity is still making money out of this. They cant just ignore the new dynamics just because they came from another era when artists and record labels were a multimillionare industry (does an artist really need to be that rich anyways?). They got fucked by leaks, they can either ignore it, try to overcome it and profit with it somehow, or cause a PR fuck up. GNR chose this last one. 

But since you were so kind in doing a research for me, I recommend this video with a new and relevant artist (dont worry, it's not about the quality of her music) and how her strategy works in the current industry environment: 

 

 

Sales data matey. Facts not opinions.

We are so off track here, bottom line, that stuff was not Rick or anyone elses to leak. They knew exactly what they were doing. The band should not now have to do anything in response in terms of music release. This is exactly the same as movies leaking. If a band chooses to do a release campaign that looks like leaks or similar, that's a whole other ball game

[ChildOfTheMoon]

31 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

You assume Axl knows about any of this in detail. Let alone he himself demanding a ban. That could simply come just from mgmt for example. We don’t know the extent of it. To comment at this point is a bit unfair. 

Im sure it sucks to have music that wasn’t meant for public critique/consumption suddenly made available. I also don’t think it’s fair to ask for an artist to simply “get over it”. He’s can feel whatever way he wants about it. It’s his songs...

There’s not much to compare between artists and how they’ve reacted. Different circumstances, different industry dynamics, etc... While I agree to an extent that it’s easier to play along in some instances, we don’t get to see the bottom line on what it affects. Perhaps they won’t even see it for another 5 yrs. Time will tell

Also we all want Axl to be this “don’t give a fuck” type of artist and be this rockstar, yet some constantly complain why he’s not doing things by the book and not acting within some type of perceived box. I just think it’s funny when people say “he should this or that”. People have been trying to make him do things for the majority of his life. Label executives, A&R, Promoters, Agents, Managers, etc... I don’t think that starts now 

Ground zero of any GNR conversation we have here is that we don’t know anything, never, we’re always speculating, so we can wonder and think whatever we want. Based on what we know, if I was him, I would let it go, because there’s not much he can do apparently.

I’ve said that a hundred times, but I don’t believe that a guy known for his desire of controlling everything doesn’t know about what’s going on with his music, business etc.

[WhazUp]

If I was GNR/TB I know for me I would be much more attentive to the people selling the disks in the first place as opposed to a fan buying what is already been put on the market for anyone to buy.  Rick didn't go about things the best way by the looks of everything the past few months, and while I can see why GNR would hand out a lifetime ban, it seems a tad overkill to me personally

[Voodoochild]

2 minutes ago, swishtz said:

Sales data matey. Facts not opinions.

We are so off track here, bottom line, that stuff was not Rick or anyone elses to leak. They knew exactly what they were doing. The band should not now have to do anything in response in terms of music release. This is exactly the same as movies leaking. If a band chooses to do a release campaign that looks like leaks or similar, that's a whole other ball game

Hahaha, so album sales data are down for the last 25 years, that's hardly new. What about the revenue and shareholder return against Capex and greedy (I mean, % of what the artist can have now for their own work)? We can talk about those facts too. I honestly don't know, but I'm sure this would be interesting to look at.

I dont think is the same as movies, though. Different media, different ways of consume the product. The thing with GNR is that they did something: they banned Rick for life and made a scene. I agree, it would be better for them to do nothing instead of this. At the same time, I think they could profit out of an unfortunate situation of the leaks. 

1 minute ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

Ground zero of any GNR conversation we have here is that we don’t know anything, never, we’re always speculating, so we can wonder and think whatever we want. Based on what we know, if I was him, I would let it go, because there’s not much he can do apparently.

I’ve said that a hundred times, but I don’t believe that a guy known for his desire of controlling everything doesn’t know about what’s going on with his music, business etc.

I like you. I couldnt have said it better. 

Also, if some management does something wrong, it's not just their responsability. The company also needs to be accountable. Axl Rose is the owner. If he doesnt know anything (and he should in this case), it's still his responsability.  

[ChildOfTheMoon]

33 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Hahaha, so album sales data are down for the last 25 years, that's hardly new. What about the revenue and shareholder return against Capex and greedy (I mean, % of what the artist can have now for their own work)? We can talk about those facts too. I honestly don't know, but I'm sure this would be interesting to look at.

I dont think is the same as movies, though. Different media, different ways of consume the product. The thing with GNR is that they did something: they banned Rick for life and made a scene. I agree, it would be better for them to do nothing instead of this. At the same time, I think they could profit out of an unfortunate situation of the leaks. 

I like you. I couldnt have said it better. 

Also, if some management does something wrong, it's not just their responsability. The company also needs to be accountable. Axl Rose is the owner. If he doesnt know anything (and he should in this case), it's still his responsability.  

I find it bizarre how many people think of Axl as a puppet, basically controlled by anyone, since we all know his history and personality!

[Modano09]

2 hours ago, swishtz said:

Back onto the topic of the attention seeking guy, not only does he rustle up $15k for music , drive 19 hours (none of this smacks of innocent behaviour) when challenged, rather than be concerned or eat a bit of humble pie, he baits the band and runs around self promoting what a big shot he is. I dont know whether he leaked anything or not, but he doesn't seem innocent and if he keeps prodding he may find himself having to explain himself in court.

Knowing how GNR are when it comes to leaks and what happened to Skwerl, announcing he was on his way to get the music was a curious choice.

[Azifwekare]

4 hours ago, Legendador said:

But now they sell the thing and also BRAG about it.

And I think that's exactly what this is about. I'm sure they're making an example of Rick because he was the only one dumb enough to brag about it publicly.

[ChildOfTheMoon]

23 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

And I think that's exactly what this is about. I'm sure they're making an example of Rick because he was the only one dumb enough to brag about it publicly.

He wanted to be a “celebrity fan”, now he will pay the price apparently. Congrats to him!

[Amaya]

Thanks to all. I am out of reactions.  Great spirited, informative , intelligent conversation.

[thunderram]

On 10/10/2019 at 3:05 PM, Voodoochild said:

Yep. I'm getting some Metallica vs. Napster feelings here. It hurts the band's brand a lot more.

It should be quite apparent by now that AXL doesn't care whether it does or doesn't.

He and the original members in general have remained consistent in making whatever choices they believe in -- regardless who is might piss off or offend. And that's exactly what's helped make the band what they are and have been for nearly 35 years.

Fans don't have to like it. But it shouldn't be a surprise or unexpected. At all.

With few notable exceptions, this band has always done what it wants to do and how it wants to do it. Even if that means doing nothing at all. Especially AXL.

In other news, water is wet.

Edited October 16, 2019 by thunderram