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Guns n Roses Ban Fan From Shows Due to Song Leaks (Link)

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The thing is, if I was a musician and my music was leaked on the wilds of the internet without my permission, I would be pretty pissed. If Axl did not release the material it was because he thought it wasn’t good enough, wasn’t ready, whatever.

That said, once it was out there’s not much you can do about it, you’re chasing the dragon, like Metallica was with Napster. And it’s not that the new GNR album was leaked, one that’s ready to go. As far as I know, it’s music from 100 years ago, instrumental, unfinished, played with random people. This is the kind of stuff that’s only interesting to people like us here, the general public doesn’t care, they don’t even bother to stay after the band plays SCOM for christ sake! I’m not particularly interested in these pieces of music from that bizarre era, the only thing I’ve listened was Hardschool because you talked so much about it.

So, imo Axl should let it go, live his life, be happy with his buddies, write new music and forget about Rick and that ridiculous ban. Just learn to choose your battles, this one doesn’t worth it. And be careful with your stuff next time so it doesn’t happen again. 

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31 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I'm sorry if my opinion goes against everyone's in here, but I think the band is right.

Imagine you have a business, and you sell something, but then you're not completely happy with the outcome of your product, so you stop selling it until you feel it is right.

Then you stop selling it for 10 years, someone keeps asking for the product for themselves, they are not happy about it, and then they "find" some of the product that was not supposed to be sold in a storage. OK.

But now they sell the thing and also BRAG about it.

The thing that nobody understand is: why bother to release something else? We already have a full CD of "new" songs with vocals, and a double CD of instrumentals, b-sides, rarities, alt.versions and so on.

The 19 CDs feature more music than the band have released in 20 years! So why bother.

Yes, I think the leakers and everybody else that downloaded the leaks tarnished the whole thing.

By the time (and if) they release Hardschool, Perhaps, Atlas, As It Begin properly they will feel as old as the 2006 Better!

It is a shame because it is getting really confusing: we have like 3 to 4 versions of each song, I don't think we as fans can tell them apart anymore.

I agree 100%  What I think will happen is Slash & DUFF will re-record the songs that leaked, with the rest of the band as well.   I think the band and record company are eager to release new music, it’s just when is the right time for both parties.

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10 minutes ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

The thing is, if I was a musician and my music was leaked on the wilds of the internet without my permission, I would be pretty pissed. If Axl did not release the material it was because he thought it wasn’t good enough, wasn’t ready, whatever.

That said, once it was out there’s not much you can do about it, you’re chasing the dragon, like Metallica was with Napster. And it’s not that the new GNR album was leaked, one that’s ready to go. As far as I know, it’s music from 100 years ago, instrumental, unfinished, played with random people. This is the kind of stuff that’s only interesting to people like us here, the general public doesn’t care, they don’t even bother to stay after the band plays SCOM for christ sake! I’m not particularly interested in these pieces of music from that bizarre era, the only thing I’ve listened was Hardschool because you talked so much about it.

So, imo Axl should let it go, live his life, be happy with his buddies, write new music and forget about Rick and that ridiculous ban. Just learn to choose your battles, this one doesn’t worth it. And be careful with your stuff next time so it doesn’t happen again. 

You assume Axl knows about any of this in detail. Let alone he himself demanding a ban. That could simply come just from mgmt for example. We don’t know the extent of it. To comment at this point is a bit unfair. 

Im sure it sucks to have music that wasn’t meant for public critique/consumption suddenly made available. I also don’t think it’s fair to ask for an artist to simply “get over it”. He’s can feel whatever way he wants about it. It’s his songs...

There’s not much to compare between artists and how they’ve reacted. Different circumstances, different industry dynamics, etc... While I agree to an extent that it’s easier to play along in some instances, we don’t get to see the bottom line on what it affects. Perhaps they won’t even see it for another 5 yrs. Time will tell

Also we all want Axl to be this “don’t give a fuck” type of artist and be this rockstar, yet some constantly complain why he’s not doing things by the book and not acting within some type of perceived box. I just think it’s funny when people say “he should this or that”. People have been trying to make him do things for the majority of his life. Label executives, A&R, Promoters, Agents, Managers, etc... I don’t think that starts now 

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51 minutes ago, swishtz said:

They embrace the internet within the parameters they should, not in a manner where bootlegs of private material get leaked by chancers, that's not the internet that's the wild west.

Why do you think Apple Music/Spotify all exist and the artists now make fuck all on record sales ? I came from the 80's so i know all about standing in line to buy a new record, recording off thee radio, all that stuff. The artist absolutely was the victim of Napster, A&R is now fucked, record label investment in artist development is now fucked, a #1 record meaning anything like it used to is now fucked.  Everything is about a quick buck, low spend, look at music videos these days vs what used to be the norm, money got sucked out of the industry, it has been redistributed to the elite through touring and merchandising, VIP' tours, meet & greets etc etc. Oh i know what i am talking about because this is my industry. And who do i know still downloading things illegally ? Ever heard of torrents ?  Your generalisations are incredulous. Entire albums shit, no one downloading illegally, artists not suffering from people stealing their work, please do your research before interjecting . 

 

https://ibb.co/C9XMVHr

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/music-industry-sales/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/oct/09/more-than-one-third-global-music-consumers-pirate-music

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17963804/music-modernization-act-mma-copyright-law-bill-labels-congress

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-200-best-albums-of-the-1980s/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-best-albums-of-the-90s-152425/

I'm not sure why the need for such a harsh tone, but anyways.. 

When you say "do you research", do you mean that now I need to study before talking about this in a message board? 

I too came from the 80s. So you can guess my age and how I do not have time to include references and sources on every single opinion I have. Much less every single link you provided. But let's get The Guardian's article: they quote a report by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Their metodology's discription only talks about sample and demographic reach, but we don't know how it was conducted nor the content of the form/interviews. It's a report made for the record industry about how the record industry is suffering. The quote from the CIO in that report: "Record companies continue to develop, support and invest in music, playing a crucial role in ensuring that it continues on its exciting journey". I don't know about you, but I find this extremely questionable. They are considerable less necessary now and act more as gatekeepers. The new independent artists can reach a lot more people now without any big corporate behind it eating a large fee for every single piece of their work, including live performances. 

If the quality of the music scene today is not good, dont blame on piracy. The companies always maximize their profits by raising their margins, development of new and edgy artists were never a priority. They only have more control over the artists now. They demand songs to have chorus-verses-chorus structure. They demand the chorus to be written in the VI-IV-I-V chord progression. Even though bands like The Beatles, with several #1 singles on Billboard, only had one #1 hit with this very same progression (Let it Be). Dont tell me this is the only possible way to make a song profitable enough.

Of course I know about torrents. For albums? I dont have any report to back it up, but I assume they are irrelevant because it's not something needed (any file sharing service can handle a regular album) nor was it ever somehting as popular as things like Napster, Kazaa and the likes. This thing about torrent is not important however, I just wanted to point out. For developing countries like Brazil, tho, where the fixed broadband is only available for like 50% of the population (and still with assimetric distribution), this is not an option. DVDs and pendrives with MP3 are the majority of illegal music here. And one could still argue that, if not for the illegal access, a lot of those people would just move on and not consume the music at all.

 

But yeah, did I say every single album out there is entire shit? Did I say no one download music illegaly? Did I say artists dont suffer from people "stealing" their work?

When I said "embrace the Internet", I was talking about what the music business is now. I don't care who's fault was, Guns N' Roses as an entity is still making money out of this. They cant just ignore the new dynamics just because they came from another era when artists and record labels were a multimillionare industry (does an artist really need to be that rich anyways?). They got fucked by leaks, they can either ignore it, try to overcome it and profit with it somehow, or cause a PR fuck up. GNR chose this last one. 

But since you were so kind in doing a research for me, I recommend this video with a new and relevant artist (dont worry, it's not about the quality of her music) and how her strategy works in the current industry environment: 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not sure why the need for such a harsh tone, but anyways.. 

When you say "do you research", do you mean that now I need to study before talking about this in a message board? 

I too came from the 80s. So you can guess my age and how I do not have time to include references and sources on every single opinion I have. Much less every single link you provided. But let's get The Guardian's article: they quote a report by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Their metodology's discription only talks about sample and demographic reach, but we don't know how it was conducted nor the content of the form/interviews. It's a report made for the record industry about how the record industry is suffering. The quote from the CIO in that report: "Record companies continue to develop, support and invest in music, playing a crucial role in ensuring that it continues on its exciting journey". I don't know about you, but I find this extremely questionable. They are considerable less necessary now and act more as gatekeepers. The new independent artists can reach a lot more people now without any big corporate behind it eating a large fee for every single piece of their work, including live performances. 

If the quality of the music scene today is not good, dont blame on piracy. The companies always maximize their profits by raising their margins, development of new and edgy artists were never a priority. They only have more control over the artists now. They demand songs to have chorus-verses-chorus structure. They demand the chorus to be written in the VI-IV-I-V chord progression. Even though bands like The Beatles, with several #1 singles on Billboard, only had one #1 hit with this very same progression (Let it Be). Dont tell me this is the only possible way to make a song profitable enough.

Of course I know about torrents. For albums? I dont have any report to back it up, but I assume they are irrelevant because it's not something needed (any file sharing service can handle a regular album) nor was it ever somehting as popular as things like Napster, Kazaa and the likes. This thing about torrent is not important however, I just wanted to point out. For developing countries like Brazil, tho, where the fixed broadband is only available for like 50% of the population (and still with assimetric distribution), this is not an option. DVDs and pendrives with MP3 are the majority of illegal music here. And one could still argue that, if not for the illegal access, a lot of those people would just move on and not consume the music at all.

 

But yeah, did I say every single album out there is entire shit? Did I say no one download music illegaly? Did I say artists dont suffer from people "stealing" their work?

When I said "embrace the Internet", I was talking about what the music business is now. I don't care who's fault was, Guns N' Roses as an entity is still making money out of this. They cant just ignore the new dynamics just because they came from another era when artists and record labels were a multimillionare industry (does an artist really need to be that rich anyways?). They got fucked by leaks, they can either ignore it, try to overcome it and profit with it somehow, or cause a PR fuck up. GNR chose this last one. 

But since you were so kind in doing a research for me, I recommend this video with a new and relevant artist (dont worry, it's not about the quality of her music) and how her strategy works in the current industry environment: 

 

 

Sales data matey. Facts not opinions.

We are so off track here, bottom line, that stuff was not Rick or anyone elses to leak. They knew exactly what they were doing. The band should not now have to do anything in response in terms of music release. This is exactly the same as movies leaking. If a band chooses to do a release campaign that looks like leaks or similar, that's a whole other ball game

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31 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

You assume Axl knows about any of this in detail. Let alone he himself demanding a ban. That could simply come just from mgmt for example. We don’t know the extent of it. To comment at this point is a bit unfair. 

Im sure it sucks to have music that wasn’t meant for public critique/consumption suddenly made available. I also don’t think it’s fair to ask for an artist to simply “get over it”. He’s can feel whatever way he wants about it. It’s his songs...

There’s not much to compare between artists and how they’ve reacted. Different circumstances, different industry dynamics, etc... While I agree to an extent that it’s easier to play along in some instances, we don’t get to see the bottom line on what it affects. Perhaps they won’t even see it for another 5 yrs. Time will tell

Also we all want Axl to be this “don’t give a fuck” type of artist and be this rockstar, yet some constantly complain why he’s not doing things by the book and not acting within some type of perceived box. I just think it’s funny when people say “he should this or that”. People have been trying to make him do things for the majority of his life. Label executives, A&R, Promoters, Agents, Managers, etc... I don’t think that starts now 

Ground zero of any GNR conversation we have here is that we don’t know anything, never, we’re always speculating, so we can wonder and think whatever we want. Based on what we know, if I was him, I would let it go, because there’s not much he can do apparently.

I’ve said that a hundred times, but I don’t believe that a guy known for his desire of controlling everything doesn’t know about what’s going on with his music, business etc.

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If I was GNR/TB I know for me I would be much more attentive to the people selling the disks in the first place as opposed to a fan buying what is already been put on the market for anyone to buy.  Rick didn't go about things the best way by the looks of everything the past few months, and while I can see why GNR would hand out a lifetime ban, it seems a tad overkill to me personally

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2 minutes ago, swishtz said:

Sales data matey. Facts not opinions.

We are so off track here, bottom line, that stuff was not Rick or anyone elses to leak. They knew exactly what they were doing. The band should not now have to do anything in response in terms of music release. This is exactly the same as movies leaking. If a band chooses to do a release campaign that looks like leaks or similar, that's a whole other ball game

Hahaha, so album sales data are down for the last 25 years, that's hardly new. What about the revenue and shareholder return against Capex and greedy (I mean, % of what the artist can have now for their own work)? We can talk about those facts too. I honestly don't know, but I'm sure this would be interesting to look at.

I dont think is the same as movies, though. Different media, different ways of consume the product. The thing with GNR is that they did something: they banned Rick for life and made a scene. I agree, it would be better for them to do nothing instead of this. At the same time, I think they could profit out of an unfortunate situation of the leaks. 

1 minute ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

Ground zero of any GNR conversation we have here is that we don’t know anything, never, we’re always speculating, so we can wonder and think whatever we want. Based on what we know, if I was him, I would let it go, because there’s not much he can do apparently.

I’ve said that a hundred times, but I don’t believe that a guy known for his desire of controlling everything doesn’t know about what’s going on with his music, business etc.

I like you. I couldnt have said it better. 

Also, if some management does something wrong, it's not just their responsability. The company also needs to be accountable. Axl Rose is the owner. If he doesnt know anything (and he should in this case), it's still his responsability.  

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33 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Hahaha, so album sales data are down for the last 25 years, that's hardly new. What about the revenue and shareholder return against Capex and greedy (I mean, % of what the artist can have now for their own work)? We can talk about those facts too. I honestly don't know, but I'm sure this would be interesting to look at.

I dont think is the same as movies, though. Different media, different ways of consume the product. The thing with GNR is that they did something: they banned Rick for life and made a scene. I agree, it would be better for them to do nothing instead of this. At the same time, I think they could profit out of an unfortunate situation of the leaks. 

I like you. I couldnt have said it better. 

Also, if some management does something wrong, it's not just their responsability. The company also needs to be accountable. Axl Rose is the owner. If he doesnt know anything (and he should in this case), it's still his responsability.  

I find it bizarre how many people think of Axl as a puppet, basically controlled by anyone, since we all know his history and personality!

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2 hours ago, swishtz said:

Back onto the topic of the attention seeking guy, not only does he rustle up $15k for music , drive 19 hours (none of this smacks of innocent behaviour) when challenged, rather than be concerned or eat a bit of humble pie, he baits the band and runs around self promoting what a big shot he is. I dont know whether he leaked anything or not, but he doesn't seem innocent and if he keeps prodding he may find himself having to explain himself in court.

Knowing how GNR are when it comes to leaks and what happened to Skwerl, announcing he was on his way to get the music was a curious choice.

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4 hours ago, Legendador said:

But now they sell the thing and also BRAG about it.

And I think that's exactly what this is about. I'm sure they're making an example of Rick because he was the only one dumb enough to brag about it publicly.

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23 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

And I think that's exactly what this is about. I'm sure they're making an example of Rick because he was the only one dumb enough to brag about it publicly.

He wanted to be a “celebrity fan”, now he will pay the price apparently. Congrats to him!

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Thanks to all. I am out of reactions.  Great spirited, informative , intelligent conversation.

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On 10/10/2019 at 3:05 PM, Voodoochild said:

Yep. I'm getting some Metallica vs. Napster feelings here. It hurts the band's brand a lot more.

It should be quite apparent by now that AXL doesn't care whether it does or doesn't.

He and the original members in general have remained consistent in making whatever choices they believe in -- regardless who is might piss off or offend. And that's exactly what's helped make the band what they are and have been for nearly 35 years.

Fans don't have to like it. But it shouldn't be a surprise or unexpected. At all.

With few notable exceptions, this band has always done what it wants to do and how it wants to do it. Even if that means doing nothing at all. Especially AXL.

In other news, water is wet.

Edited by thunderram

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1 hour ago, thunderram said:

In other news, water is wet.

I got news for you

 

Edited by StrangerInThisTown

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12 hours ago, Legendador said:

By the time (and if) they release Hardschool, Perhaps, Atlas, As It Begin properly they will feel as old as the 2006 Better!

I will say im amused that fans are willing to accept 20 year old songs recorded by a different band (I guess anything from this band will do). But for me it feels wrong. For one its incredibly lazy and a bad sign for the creativity of this lineup and two Slash and Duff are established musicians. Are they really going to sully themselves by miming the replacements (pun intended) work? 

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6 hours ago, thunderram said:

It should be quite apparent by now that AXL doesn't care whether it does or doesn't.

He and the original members in general have remained consistent in making whatever choices they believe in -- regardless who is might piss off or offend. And that's exactly what's helped make the band what they are and have been for nearly 35 years.

Fans don't have to like it. But it shouldn't be a surprise or unexpected. At all.

With few notable exceptions, this band has always done what it wants to do and how it wants to do it. Even if that means doing nothing at all. Especially AXL.

In other news, water is wet.

I'm not sure anyone was surprised about it, but anyways..

I dont think you really understand what I was talking about. I'm not saying I was expecting Axl/GNR/TB to care about the brand. I'm stating my opinion: it's a bad PR move. This is a message board and we are allowed to state opinions, right? 

Of course they dont care about it, hence the toy trucks and laundry bag, the lack of proper communications with fans, the absurd copyright strikes. But I disagree, this is not what helped the band IMO. Sure, maybe in the 1987-1992 timeframe, but after that, it only depreciated it. People love the band besides that, not because of that. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, lukepowell1988 said:

The autism is strong with this one .. 

Yeah but no but yeah

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Accord Rick  account twitter he maybe going to Vegas show.

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On 2019-10-15 at 1:23 PM, ChildOfTheMoon said:

I find it bizarre how many people think of Axl as a puppet, basically controlled by anyone, since we all know his history and personality!

Many people think of him as a muppet, not puppet. That may be where your confusion is.

Edited by Powderfinger

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21 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not sure anyone was surprised about it, but anyways..

I dont think you really understand what I was talking about. I'm not saying I was expecting Axl/GNR/TB to care about the brand. I'm stating my opinion: it's a bad PR move. This is a message board and we are allowed to state opinions, right? 

Of course they dont care about it, hence the toy trucks and laundry bag, the lack of proper communications with fans, the absurd copyright strikes. But I disagree, this is not what helped the band IMO. Sure, maybe in the 1987-1992 timeframe, but after that, it only depreciated it. People love the band besides that, not because of that.

 

Understood.

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I thought this guy said he contacted the band was paid money for the music back and signed agreements. Once the music then leaked he was in violation of what he signed and the band gave him the money for nothing. Now of course he is saying others he bought with leaked it but oddly he was the only one I know of to sign off on things.

 

There is more to this than there seems. 

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On 16/10/2019 at 3:41 AM, -W.A.R- said:

I will say im amused that fans are willing to accept 20 year old songs recorded by a different band (I guess anything from this band will do). But for me it feels wrong. For one its incredibly lazy and a bad sign for the creativity of this lineup and two Slash and Duff are established musicians. Are they really going to sully themselves by miming the replacements (pun intended) work? 

I agree with you 100%! But then again, this is Axl's band, it was never a functional band to begin with, they always did things differently from other bands, but the real thing is: it is not up to us to accept that! What are we gonna do? There are still a lot of fans that will buy it, so you lose some, you gain some.

Those are 20 year old songs to Axl and Dizzy, but for Slash and Duff and the fans they might be "new" ones. To me, I lost interest already, being hearing them nonstop I'm already like "ok, next..."

But then again: I listen to Locomotive. Coma, Rocket Queen for almost 30 years and I never get tired. I don't know why's that, maybe the whole process thin sound of all ChiDem song feels dated, but hell, even the locomotive demo feels better, punchier and heavier than all the official and non-official ChiDem leaks.

Edited by Legendador
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13 hours ago, Ratam said:

Accord Rick  account twitter he maybe going to Vegas show.

So he enjoys wasting money on shows he will not have a hope in hell of getting into?

 

 

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