Guns n Roses Ban Fan From Shows Due to Song Leaks (Link)

[adamsapple]

1 hour ago, Gnrcane said:

Financial damage would be very difficult to calculate especially given the history of (not) releasing new music.  It would be very difficult to convince a jury that leaks of 10 year old, unreleased songs caused financial damage to GNR.

It's their intelectual property and since GNR are professional musicians known to make a living with their music, a financial damage would very much be on the table - and rather easy to calculate: take the sales of all releases in the bands history in million copies, multiply that with shares per copy plus the royalties and divide that through the sum of all releases including the unreleased album - voila, the average GNR release in dollars. Simple math here, but you catch my drift. And we're not even talking compensation immaterial/emotional damage caused to the artists for publishing their work without their consent. Fuel for a multi million dollar case right there and just because they didn't release it for ten years doesn't give anyone the right to steal it from them. However, still I believe the way they handle this whole thing is extremely unprofessional. They are totally right, but how they go about it makes them look as if they were the bad guys. Their manager needs a manager.

[Azifwekare]

4 hours ago, downliner said:

I'm amazed that @axlrosefan4life is now actively pursuing the media and looking for attention.

And that's what it's all about - attention. That's why I don't believe Rick is the Chairman. If his past actions are anything to go by, he would definitely have told anyone who would listen exactly who he was and what he was doing. Although I understand why TB think it's him, as the material would have trickled down from him.

And it's his attention seeking that took this non-story that only GNRCentral and other random clickbait sites reported on and made it a talking point on the more well-known outlets. He looked like an excited child at the end of that video.

I remember when people found out about the Evader General remix, he tried to 'hoard' that and only shared a small clip to really get a feel of his balls swinging, until other people got hold of the whole thing and started sharing it. When he spoke about it on the AFD show, he tried to make out he had the real thing, then Brando goes "it's fan made right?" and he's like "uhhh... yeah, i guess so".

Another thing I noticed is that on his own YT channel (linked in the OP article) he's got a bunch of videos titled 'Rick Dunsford does this with Axl Rose' and 'Rick Dunsford does that with Bumblefoot', as if people are supposed to know who he is. Who does that? 

The reason why TB went after him is because he was the only hoarder who gave it the big 'I am' in public, whereas the others only brag about it to their own private circle of subordinates.

[ChildOfTheMoon]

9 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

You're not alone. Like I said before, Axl is accountable. At the very least, he chose to have those kind of people around him.

Do I like TB? I dont care about them. I dont know them personally. I do think their behavior towards fans to be very fucked up. But people keep blaming them for every single bad decision with the band. Isnt that just an excuse to not blame Axl himself?

I don't believe things work that way, but what I said was more about the band as an entity. Slash and Duff (and even the other members) chose to be there, it's their face that people see representing the band.

But the best part is: GNR is known for making bad decisions since forever, even before TB was a thing, Axl (and the other guys) always loved to blame management. The only thing that all these managers throughout the years have in common? A guy named Axl. Isn’t that funny? But somehow TB gets all the blame for anything, from Axl’s clothes to new music being released.

By the way, I’m not a TB fan, I just don’t care about them and think it’s bizarre the attention they get. I’m sure they have their own opinions, as we do, and talk to Axl about them, but ultimately it’s the guy’s call.

In one of his recent interviews, Duff made it pretty clear that the big three deal with everything/decide everything together and that’s one of the things they changed in their relationship. But regarding this leak, I don’t think they got much involved, since it’s all Axl’s material. Don’t know, I’m not a lawyer.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ChildOfTheMoon

[ronartest2004]

I know nothing about this guy so I can't comment on him. But knowing what we all know about TB (Fernando) in particular, this is just another way of them showing how truly poor and petty of managers they (he) is. 

 

If you want to visually see what a poor management team they are, just search for that video of Axl fighting the photographer in the airport (around 09-10)?. Fernando says "uh, can we get some security?" Hello, dumbass thats your job as a manager to provide security. And Beta shoving the camera of the photographer in to the face of the guy taking the pictures. Then Axl punching the guy because "he hit his mother".

 

What a fucking circus.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ronartest2004

[Voodoochild]

8 minutes ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

But the best part is: GNR is known for making bad decisions since ever, even before TB was a thing, Axl (and the other guys) always loved to blame management. The only thing that all these managers throughout the years have in common? A guy named Axl. Isn’t that funny? But somehow TB gets all the blame for anything, from Axl’s clothes to new music being released.

By the way, I’m not a TB fan, I just don’t care about them and think it’s bizarre the attention they get. I’m sure they have their own opinions, as we do, and talk to Axl about them, but ultimately it’s the guy’s call.

In one of his recent interviews, Duff made it pretty clear that the big three deal with everything/decide everything together and that’s one of the things they changed in their relationship. But regarding this leak, I don’t think they got much involved, since it’s all Axl’s material. Don’t know, I’m not a lawyer.

I'm out of likes.

But this is it. Bad decisions and always someone else's fault.

Regarding the leaks: yeah, I guess that's more about Axl. Or maybe some of the material (like Hardschool) were already being worked on with Slash and Duff, and now it's hurting them too? 

[-Jaro-]

2 hours ago, Gibbo said:

I understand why Team Brazil are pissed off and he did break the contract. So I think a fair thing would be to ban him from the shows until he pays them money back and leave it at that. This is not going to hurt album sales one bit help if anything.

 

what album?

[Gibbo]

1 minute ago, -Jaro- said:

what album?

The next one we get

[DieselDaisy]

The person who leaked this stuff, whether it is Rick or not, should be knighted, not banned. Ginger doesn't release new music and prefers to keep all of this ancient stuff rotting away in a Vault with Tobias' skeleton. Meanwhile hoarders have formed an ''elite'' club.

The leaks are probably the most interesting thing to happen to Guns N' Roses since the last lot of leaks 2005ish. Of course Rose hates it because he likes nothing but tedious nostalgia now and hates to see the fanbase generally interested and excited. We're supposed to just hand over our credit cards, watch the greatest hits concerts and walk away with an extortionate laundry bag and toy truck as a memento. Anything to do with actual art and novelty is frowned on at HQ.

[-Jaro-]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

The next one we get

well, if GNR ever release new album - there are very few things that could hurt sales...

Just like very few things can hurt reunion tour sales as we see last 4 years... Even  they (GNR and management) cannot do anything to hurt it...

[appetite4illusions]

Maybe I'm dense or society has moved on from my intellect, but how do you stop somebody from attending shows?

You just buy a ticket and disappear into the mass of people.

Is this a real "ban" or just a demerit? How would you enforce it?

[bdinan]

4 hours ago, vloors said:

Maybe you should go find another band to be a fan of?

I'm a fan of plenty of other bands who are legitimately good to the people who have had their backs for decades. It's called having an opinion, not every opinion on the state of the band is going to be positive. 

[Original]

51 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

Maybe I'm dense or society has moved on from my intellect, but how do you stop somebody from attending shows?

You just buy a ticket and disappear into the mass of people.

Is this a real "ban" or just a demerit? How would you enforce it?

LOL I was thinking the same.  Just don't sit/stand up front.  Go blend in the crowd.  Cut your hair or wear a hat.  Plus can a band legally ban someone from entering an arena they don't own?  I'm guessing this ban is more of sending a message.

[adamsapple]

55 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

Maybe I'm dense or society has moved on from my intellect, but how do you stop somebody from attending shows?

You just buy a ticket and disappear into the mass of people.

Is this a real "ban" or just a demerit? How would you enforce it?

No box office, pre-sale only with non transferable personalized tickets.

[adamsapple]

10 minutes ago, Original said:

 Plus can a band legally ban someone from entering an arena they don't own? 

Yes, if house rights are transfered to the contracting party for the night.

[DieselDaisy]

Fairly easy to get around with a decent disguise, bit of hair dye, fake moustache, etc. 

[Nosaj Thing]

The stupidest part of the story is whoever this Rick guy is and other fans paying $15,000 for the CDs.  The fuck is wrong with them? 

[TheSeeker]

9 minutes ago, Nosaj Thing said:

The stupidest part of the story is whoever this Rick guy is and other fans paying $15,000 for the CDs.  The fuck is wrong with them? 

That's kind of a bargain

I would have paid that myself if that's what it would have taken to liberate it

A bunch of poor assholes pooling their money and going "YOU TRUST ME, RIGHT BRO?" to each other as one of them leaks everything and screws over the collective is exactly where this all went wrong

 

[estranged_85]

6 hours ago, vloors said:

The other thing people arent getting is this is unauthorised use of intellectual property.

Its illegal to sell or purchase it.

It doesnt matter if gnr never planned to release it. Its still their property and essentially stolen property.

You are not legally allowed to buy or sell a stolen car can you? Same deal with intellectual property.

Rick if he had half a brain should respect the small ban they put on him and stay quiet and away from the headlines. Im sure if they wanted to they could really f him up legally.

Exactly this. That dude knew exactly what could happen and he luckily just got away with a ban from shows and not his life ruined in court. 

[guitarpatch]

Just now, estranged_85 said:

Exactly this. That dude knew exactly what could happen and he luckily just got away with a ban from shows and not his life ruined in court. 

You can legally buy the CDs. That’s not the issue. You just just have no rights to make copies and distribute. Being public about it puts you on their radar. When the content becomes available that’s the first place to look

The ban is essentially that they don’t want to see him around. Which is fair imo considering all of the bs the situation is creating. Im sure there are multiple ways to go about it to make that known/felt besides legal action and press fall out. 

I’m sure he can get a ticket from other sources and sit somewhere else to go unnoticed but it probably won’t be the same experience. They don’t want to see him upfront or in VIP 

[slash23579]

6 hours ago, vloors said:

The other thing people arent getting is this is unauthorised use of intellectual property.

Its illegal to sell or purchase it.

It doesnt matter if gnr never planned to release it. Its still their property and essentially stolen property.

You are not legally allowed to buy or sell a stolen car can you? Same deal with intellectual property.

Rick if he had half a brain should respect the small ban they put on him and stay quiet and away from the headlines. Im sure if they wanted to they could really f him up legally.

If the CDs were really sold at a public auction than it is 100% legal to own the physical discs, the only crime here is the illegal distribution of the files on the disc. The only reason I think they’re not taking legal action against Rick is that they would have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt in court, that Rick personally distributed the files on the discs. TB does not have a case, that’s why they went with a ban because that’s really all they can do

[papashaun]

If what Rick is quoted as saying in the article is true:

"I know the seller that I bought them from was continuing to sell to other individuals, and there was a massive leak. So pretty much, I've been blamed for this," he said.
That probably means either 1. The person who bought this locker still has the original copies, and sold Rick and his friends "copies" for $15,000....or  2. The person who bought the locker sold Rick and his friends the original copies for $15,000, but made copies himself before selling....

I would guess that "The Chairman" isn't Rick, one of his friends, or the person who bought the locker....but someone else that the person who bought the lock sold copies too....

In all....I think the person who bought the locker sold "The Chairman" copies of the discs, which is why you hear the "skip" in one of the instrumentals....it's been "burned" over to a disc that way, the "skip" picked up on the copy, due to scratches on the original.  Used to happen to me a lot back in the early 00's, when we copied a disc from a friend that has scratches, a skip might pick up on a song from time to time. 

[MaskingApathy]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Fairly easy to get around with a decent disguise, bit of hair dye, fake moustache, etc. 

He should get one of those glasses with the nose and moustache attached 

[Blackstar]

For the record, Axl's take on pre-CD release leaks. From the forum chats in 2008:

Q: Hey axl what effect do leaks REALLY have on the band/the album? Theres a lot of speculation but no clear answer. Thanks for your time

Axl: Basically for us it's devastating across the board. And when u have such a majority openly justifying their actions and throwing out nonsense such as it's not actually stealing as the original is still with whomever it's unbelievably insane. It exists because of the greed of the record industry, the greed of large scale pirating, the ease and common nature now of the act itself and personal motivations such as popularity among certain groups, possible momentary media recognition etc. And it's too rampant and widespread. It's simply too huge a mess for the courts to deal with and in that with those #'s and the expense and manpower involved necessary at this time to curtail it... obviously there are more serious crimes for society to focus on. Besides, fuck musicians right? If they didn't make enough already then they probably suck anyway rt? "I ain't cryin' for no rich dude." Whatever. And who knows? What are our #'s on the torrent sites for this album? I don't know. So I don't know how or if it's affected us in terms of sales this time around. Maybe not but w/the economy and the core of our market I'd think there's a possibility it has had a negative effect. Anyone?

[username]

9 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

For the record, Axl's take on pre-CD release leaks. From the forum chats in 2008:

Q: Hey axl what effect do leaks REALLY have on the band/the album? Theres a lot of speculation but no clear answer. Thanks for your time

Axl: Basically for us it's devastating across the board. And when u have such a majority openly justifying their actions and throwing out nonsense such as it's not actually stealing as the original is still with whomever it's unbelievably insane. It exists because of the greed of the record industry, the greed of large scale pirating, the ease and common nature now of the act itself and personal motivations such as popularity among certain groups, possible momentary media recognition etc. And it's too rampant and widespread. It's simply too huge a mess for the courts to deal with and in that with those #'s and the expense and manpower involved necessary at this time to curtail it... obviously there are more serious crimes for society to focus on. Besides, fuck musicians right? If they didn't make enough already then they probably suck anyway rt? "I ain't cryin' for no rich dude." Whatever. And who knows? What are our #'s on the torrent sites for this album? I don't know. So I don't know how or if it's affected us in terms of sales this time around. Maybe not but w/the economy and the core of our market I'd think there's a possibility it has had a negative effect. Anyone?

In fairness that was almost-as released material right when a release was going to happen. These are 20 year old demo's by another band and fuck GnR for all of a sudden "having a release planned". I have 0 sympathy for them on this one. 

Why can't GnR ever be like a normal band? 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by username

[Amaya]

6 hours ago, ronartest2004 said:

I know nothing about this guy so I can't comment on him. But knowing what we all know about TB (Fernando) in particular, this is just another way of them showing how truly poor and petty of managers they (he) is. 

 

If you want to visually see what a poor management team they are, just search for that video of Axl fighting the photographer in the airport (around 09-10)?. Fernando says "uh, can we get some security?" Hello, dumbass thats your job as a manager to provide security. And Beta shoving the camera of the photographer in to the face of the guy taking the pictures. Then Axl punching the guy because "he hit his mother".

 

What a fucking circus.

All of this , that, and the other could have been avoided by just letting  the airport photographer ( paparaz) take the pic.   They are always around and in  LAX . Nuisance, yes. So there is a pic on TMZ. So what. So a pic of Axl walking with a suitcase. So what.