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Guns n Roses Ban Fan From Shows Due to Song Leaks (Link)

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6 hours ago, vloors said:

The other thing people arent getting is this is unauthorised use of intellectual property.

Its illegal to sell or purchase it.

It doesnt matter if gnr never planned to release it. Its still their property and essentially stolen property.

You are not legally allowed to buy or sell a stolen car can you? Same deal with intellectual property.

Rick if he had half a brain should respect the small ban they put on him and stay quiet and away from the headlines. Im sure if they wanted to they could really f him up legally.

Exactly this. That dude knew exactly what could happen and he luckily just got away with a ban from shows and not his life ruined in court. 

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Just now, estranged_85 said:

Exactly this. That dude knew exactly what could happen and he luckily just got away with a ban from shows and not his life ruined in court. 

You can legally buy the CDs. That’s not the issue. You just just have no rights to make copies and distribute. Being public about it puts you on their radar. When the content becomes available that’s the first place to look

The ban is essentially that they don’t want to see him around. Which is fair imo considering all of the bs the situation is creating. Im sure there are multiple ways to go about it to make that known/felt besides legal action and press fall out. 

I’m sure he can get a ticket from other sources and sit somewhere else to go unnoticed but it probably won’t be the same experience. They don’t want to see him upfront or in VIP 

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6 hours ago, vloors said:

The other thing people arent getting is this is unauthorised use of intellectual property.

Its illegal to sell or purchase it.

It doesnt matter if gnr never planned to release it. Its still their property and essentially stolen property.

You are not legally allowed to buy or sell a stolen car can you? Same deal with intellectual property.

Rick if he had half a brain should respect the small ban they put on him and stay quiet and away from the headlines. Im sure if they wanted to they could really f him up legally.

If the CDs were really sold at a public auction than it is 100% legal to own the physical discs, the only crime here is the illegal distribution of the files on the disc. The only reason I think they’re not taking legal action against Rick is that they would have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt in court, that Rick personally distributed the files on the discs. TB does not have a case, that’s why they went with a ban because that’s really all they can do

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If what Rick is quoted as saying in the article is true:

"I know the seller that I bought them from was continuing to sell to other individuals, and there was a massive leak. So pretty much, I've been blamed for this," he said.
That probably means either 1. The person who bought this locker still has the original copies, and sold Rick and his friends "copies" for $15,000....or  2. The person who bought the locker sold Rick and his friends the original copies for $15,000, but made copies himself before selling....

I would guess that "The Chairman" isn't Rick, one of his friends, or the person who bought the locker....but someone else that the person who bought the lock sold copies too....

In all....I think the person who bought the locker sold "The Chairman" copies of the discs, which is why you hear the "skip" in one of the instrumentals....it's been "burned" over to a disc that way, the "skip" picked up on the copy, due to scratches on the original.  Used to happen to me a lot back in the early 00's, when we copied a disc from a friend that has scratches, a skip might pick up on a song from time to time. 

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Fairly easy to get around with a decent disguise, bit of hair dye, fake moustache, etc. 

He should get one of those glasses with the nose and moustache attached :lol:

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For the record, Axl's take on pre-CD release leaks. From the forum chats in 2008:

Q: Hey axl what effect do leaks REALLY have on the band/the album? Theres a lot of speculation but no clear answer. Thanks for your time

Axl: Basically for us it's devastating across the board. And when u have such a majority openly justifying their actions and throwing out nonsense such as it's not actually stealing as the original is still with whomever it's unbelievably insane. It exists because of the greed of the record industry, the greed of large scale pirating, the ease and common nature now of the act itself and personal motivations such as popularity among certain groups, possible momentary media recognition etc. And it's too rampant and widespread. It's simply too huge a mess for the courts to deal with and in that with those #'s and the expense and manpower involved necessary at this time to curtail it... obviously there are more serious crimes for society to focus on. Besides, fuck musicians right? If they didn't make enough already then they probably suck anyway rt? "I ain't cryin' for no rich dude." Whatever. And who knows? What are our #'s on the torrent sites for this album? I don't know. So I don't know how or if it's affected us in terms of sales this time around. Maybe not but w/the economy and the core of our market I'd think there's a possibility it has had a negative effect. Anyone?

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9 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

For the record, Axl's take on pre-CD release leaks. From the forum chats in 2008:

Q: Hey axl what effect do leaks REALLY have on the band/the album? Theres a lot of speculation but no clear answer. Thanks for your time

Axl: Basically for us it's devastating across the board. And when u have such a majority openly justifying their actions and throwing out nonsense such as it's not actually stealing as the original is still with whomever it's unbelievably insane. It exists because of the greed of the record industry, the greed of large scale pirating, the ease and common nature now of the act itself and personal motivations such as popularity among certain groups, possible momentary media recognition etc. And it's too rampant and widespread. It's simply too huge a mess for the courts to deal with and in that with those #'s and the expense and manpower involved necessary at this time to curtail it... obviously there are more serious crimes for society to focus on. Besides, fuck musicians right? If they didn't make enough already then they probably suck anyway rt? "I ain't cryin' for no rich dude." Whatever. And who knows? What are our #'s on the torrent sites for this album? I don't know. So I don't know how or if it's affected us in terms of sales this time around. Maybe not but w/the economy and the core of our market I'd think there's a possibility it has had a negative effect. Anyone?

In fairness that was almost-as released material right when a release was going to happen. These are 20 year old demo's by another band and fuck GnR for all of a sudden "having a release planned". I have 0 sympathy for them on this one. 

Why can't GnR ever be like a normal band? 

 

3d24x2.jpg 

Edited by username
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6 hours ago, ronartest2004 said:

I know nothing about this guy so I can't comment on him. But knowing what we all know about TB (Fernando) in particular, this is just another way of them showing how truly poor and petty of managers they (he) is. 

 

If you want to visually see what a poor management team they are, just search for that video of Axl fighting the photographer in the airport (around 09-10)?. Fernando says "uh, can we get some security?" Hello, dumbass thats your job as a manager to provide security. And Beta shoving the camera of the photographer in to the face of the guy taking the pictures. Then Axl punching the guy because "he hit his mother".

 

What a fucking circus.

All of this , that, and the other could have been avoided by just letting  the airport photographer ( paparaz) take the pic.   They are always around and in  LAX . Nuisance, yes. So there is a pic on TMZ. So what. So a pic of Axl walking with a suitcase. So what.

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3 minutes ago, username said:

In fairness that was almost-as released material right when a release was going to happen. These are 20 year old demo's by another band and fuck GnR for all of a sudden "having a release planned". I have 0 sympathy for them on this one. 

Those leaks definitely didn't help in that it was most of the album and so close to the release date. Also streaming the entire album on Myspace a week beforehand was probably a mistake. Anyone who was vaguely interested had heard some version of the songs by the time it was released. Certainly a different environment both in the situation and in how the music industry operates this time around...

The fact that there was no promotion/strategy by the Artist/Label coming off yet another cancelled tour being near the top of that list. They took a year off before going on tour to support it. Could an effort there have at least helped mitigate the loss seen from piracy? There were a lot of variables looking from the outside that contributed to how the album performed past the first week and overall. 

I believe Big Champagne (who held stats on torrents) said the album was a popular downloaded albums during that time span. People were interested. They just didn't capitalize on swaying public opinion that version of the band should be supported. 

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I posted the 2008 quote from Axl mostly for the bit about possible personal motivations behind the leaks, like attention seeking and popularity with the fan community.

It's doubtful if he was aware of the events that led to the current leaks  (he probably is now though anyway, as the story has been covered by some outlets, and Slash and Duff must be aware as well). But if he was informed already and TB didn't act on their own re: Rick, maybe he was irritated by the "attention seeking" involved. 

 

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I'm in the minority of people that thinks he was lucky to only receive a lifetime ban. I am very thankful to whoever got us the new songs but the band is perfectly justified to punish people for having things they aren't supposed to have. 

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If Guns would release more music in a official way nobody would care about those leaks. I think it´s Axls own fault.

Come on 11 years since the last records without a single new song. How can you justify that. Why not releasing an

EP before touring in 2019 again. He is so afraid of failure it seems to me. I wish the old axl would come back

who didn`t give a fuck about what other people or the Critics think. Even Tool and The Who Releases new albums

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What would you have done? If you  bought at auction this storage unit, what would you have done?   I would have thrown the cd's away. Somebody singing and some instrumental music is nothing to bring me money on the purchase of a storage unit. I would have  listened to see what was on it  or viewed it and thrown it away. That is no money.  Maybe it was a crime on cds-dvds for me to contact the police. Jewelry, cash money, etc.  would be what I would hope to have to pawn, sell.  Now I am saying this based on the tv shows where people buy, at auction,  a storage unit. No name, no info on a storage unit.   I am saying this based on people who buy storage units all the time and maybe in it is a brand new washer or tv and they can get back their $300.00 or something for buying tstorage unit.

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1 minute ago, Axl2002 said:

If Guns would release more music in a official way nobody would care about those leaks. I think it´s Axls own fault.

Come on 11 years since the last records without a single new song. How can you justify that. Why not releasing an

EP before touring in 2019 again. He is so afraid of failure it seems to me. I wish the old axl would come back

who didn`t give a fuck about what other people or the Critics think. Even Tool and The Who Releases new albums

Ehhh...I think we’d at least all be still interested here even if there were more music. At least I would hope. 

The question is would management or the band care as much about songs from sessions that were from 4 album cycles ago? That while possibly not being tied to a label/contract where they could just release them without much notice.

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21 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Kerrang have picked up the story now

If I was Rick I would have moved on, disappear from social media for a long time and accept the concert banned instead of seeking attention. I feel GNR management will probably take him on a date to court to screw him with a big fat lawsuit. This is TB we're talking about. They're really good at fucking the fans. 

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1 hour ago, Amaya said:

What would you have done? If you  bought at auction this storage unit, what would you have done?   I would have thrown the cd's away. Somebody singing and some instrumental music is nothing to bring me money on the purchase of a storage unit. I would have  listened to see what was on it  or viewed it and thrown it away. That is no money.  Maybe it was a crime on cds-dvds for me to contact the police. Jewelry, cash money, etc.  would be what I would hope to have to pawn, sell.  Now I am saying this based on the tv shows where people buy, at auction,  a storage unit. No name, no info on a storage unit.   I am saying this based on people who buy storage units all the time and maybe in it is a brand new washer or tv and they can get back their $300.00 or something for buying tstorage unit.

huh?

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5 hours ago, adamsapple said:

Yes, if house rights are transfered to the contracting party for the night.

Huh interesting but makes sense.  Still not sure it wouldn’t be pretty simple to get in and disappear into the masses.   

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41 minutes ago, Original said:

Huh interesting but makes sense.  Still not sure it wouldn’t be pretty simple to get in and disappear into the masses.   

Sure one could try that but depending on state laws, the consequences for resisting a house ban could be dire. I would have to look up the individual state laws for the US, but I know that in some countries in Europe you can go to jail for that as resisting a house ban is not considered a mere adminsitrative offense but an actual crime. Big difference between being asked to leave and already having been banned formally = in written form. Actually, the ban in question edges an omission prompt. If he signed it and decides to resist the ban he could end up spending the night at the local police departement followed by facing a respective indictment before court. If I was him I wouldn't be seeking attention on social media, rather keep a low profile and consult a lawyer just in case.

Personally, I think it's a shame how this whole thing turned out, to me it looks like he meant and did no harm and neither did TB. Classic case of "failure to communicate" shedding a bad light on all parties involved. There are better ways to go about your appreciation for your favourite band and better ways to treat a naive fan too.

Edited by adamsapple

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2 hours ago, Amaya said:I would have  listened to see what was on it  or viewed it and thrown it away

Lol 😂

Yeah ok sure you would've 👍🏻

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How are people still debating if it was legal or illegal to purchase these cds from the person who won an auction which gave them the right in the first place to do whatever they wanted to do with the contents of the locker? 

 

Auction winner: Legal owner of contents

CD buyer: Legal purchaser of contents 

GnR: Fucked up big time

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4 hours ago, papashaun said:

If what Rick is quoted as saying in the article is true:

"I know the seller that I bought them from was continuing to sell to other individuals, and there was a massive leak. So pretty much, I've been blamed for this," he said.
That probably means either 1. The person who bought this locker still has the original copies, and sold Rick and his friends "copies" for $15,000....or  2. The person who bought the locker sold Rick and his friends the original copies for $15,000, but made copies himself before selling....

I would guess that "The Chairman" isn't Rick, one of his friends, or the person who bought the locker....but someone else that the person who bought the lock sold copies too....

In all....I think the person who bought the locker sold "The Chairman" copies of the discs, which is why you hear the "skip" in one of the instrumentals....it's been "burned" over to a disc that way, the "skip" picked up on the copy, due to scratches on the original.  Used to happen to me a lot back in the early 00's, when we copied a disc from a friend that has scratches, a skip might pick up on a song from time to time. 

From what Ive heard Rick bought a thumbdrive with the material, not the actual discs. 

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I reached out to “GNR” the day after the Charlotte show when I got word they were looking for me. I informed them I was going to multiple shows and wanted to make sure it’s cool and I’d be happy to talk when I got to venue. I got a reply and was never told not to come or that I was banned. Instead I flew all the way to Wichita ( airfare not cheap ) waited in line for hours. 3:29pm got a email from legal team telling me I’m not allowed to attend any shows that his client is performing at. Ended with a smart ass remark save yourself a trip. 10 mins later GIO and two armed cops come out and make a scene. I told my friend if anyone talks to me that’s not a fan film it ( for my protection ). If I would have gotten the ban letter sooner then it would have been fine. Or if GNR would have told me not to come I’d been okay with that. They wanted me to travel waste money and time just to ban me. I still love the band. 

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