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1 hour ago, soon said:

Can we talk about Pink Floyd's folk music influences?

Calling folk a mere influence actually seems wrong imho since we could take all their folk songs and likely have a GNR sized catalogue. It's there from the start and carries through until The Wall.

Its on Piper, though in a lysergic form, in songs like Scarecrow. But they do a lot of very pure, English folk the wake of Syds departure. I kind of subscribe to the notion that there was a Rick-led period directly after Syd. His soundscapes, such as Saucerful and Quicksilver, or his major impact on all of Obscured By Clouds and the track Echoes. But at the same time both Roger and David were writing a fair bit of pure folk music. Davids Fat Old Sun, his songwriting debut iirc, and Rogers' Crying Song both spring to mind, but there are a lot of such pieces during this time. Roger worked on the Music For The Body soundtrack with Atom Heart Mother collaborator Ron Geesin, where it seems Geesin did the sound effect tracks and Roger brought more English folk (an odd addition to such a film imho). I could go on, but it would be more fun to explore what I'm calling their English Folk Period together! 

And the folk influence remains after the English Folk Period...

I'll take a bit of a risk here and suggest that some of the chord shapes and progressions used on Dark Side are a marriage of Ricks sound scape's and the Roger/David folk sensibility. I'd point to Brain Damages' chords as being a perfect example of folk shapes being applied to a space aged song. Just imagine it on acoustic guitar.

From Dark Side we're onto Wish You Were Here, with the title track being the clear folk touch stone. (now almost presented as though the folk aspect is a historical note - on the radio. And with a 12 string electric twang that harkens to the Byrds electrified folk music)

Animals is book ended by a folk song, Pigs On The Wing.

The Wall not only features english folk like Good Bye Blue Skies, but also Is There Anybody Out There which, on a Spanish guitar is likely a more 'worldly' folk sound and once again marries the synth soundscape with folk. Not only that but there is the shoutout to English Singer Vera Lynn, whom Ive heard some folk songs from (not sure if she does others forms as well?).

The Final Cut might be the least folk involved LP but at the same time it has that acoustic guitar theme, playing around on the low notes of a G-chord that harkens back to The Wall. And that very guitar motif is the central musical theme that ties Pros and Cons together...

Pros And Cons has so much folk influences. And when its not folk, its often blues, another traditional form (along with show tunes - which has origins in minstrel, which is a folk form). Unless Im forgetting something, Pros and Cons seems to be the last album by any of them to embrace folk music? Maybe Gilmours On an Island with Crosby and Nash on harmony vocals??

Anyways I think its cool that this so called 'space rock' band is perhaps just as much a part of the ongoing history of English Folk as it is a rock band? What do you think?

 

 

What a GREAT post. If I could like this post twice, I would. This is exactly the type of discussion I was hoping for when this thread got started! 

You mentioned a lot of the great folk influenced Floyd cut. I'd argue that A Pillow of Winds and Sam Tropez both belong in that pile too. 

I liked that you pointed out Roger having folk influence on a lot of his Floyd tracks, along with Pros & Cons. Personally, I think ATD gets included in this by way of Late Home Tonight and Watching TV. Is This The Life We Really Want has a couple of tracks with a folk influence as well, but I think the ATD tracks are stronger. 

If I were to come into the subject with little knowledge of Floyd, I would have assumed David was the one who pushed the folk influence. When you weigh things out as you've done and I added onto slightly, you see that it's actually Roger who brought that in and pushed it. 

Your post makes a strong for what many people seem to miss about Floyd. They're not a rock band. They're not a space rock band. They're not a psychedelic band. They're not a stoner band. They're just a band. A band that has made solid contributions to just about every other genre out there save for R&B. They don't just dip their toe into other genres either. They go all in and the results are often excellent. 

Lastly.... Green Is The Colour is probably the most under rated Floyd track there is. I have a stunningly good version on a vinyl bootleg where they do Green, then turn it into Careful With That Axe. It's amazing. 

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:10 AM, RussTCB said:

I'm not afraid to admit that I wept openly when I watched the Live 8 performance live on TV.  I never expected to see the 4 of them play together in my lifetime, but it was happening and I couldn't believe it. 

I really like that the others have done some one offs here and there since then. Of course David & Nick showing up for Roger's performance of The Wall was the big one though. I totally agree that David biffed the solo that night too. 

I've seen Gilmour in person three times. Twice with Floyd and once solo. He did an excellent job on the solo both nights with Floyd, but just did OK at his solo show. I think sometimes he's just bored with it maybe? Like he hits the first couple of notes everyone wants to hear, then just screws around entertaining himself. 

i was  there for that ! david showed up for numb at the top of the wall and belted out the lyrics like no other 

nick came out for outside the wall

pretty emotional to say the least

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58 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i was  there for that ! david showed up for numb at the top of the wall and belted out the lyrics like no other 

nick came out for outside the wall

pretty emotional to say the least

Oh wow, that's awesome. I've seen some amazing Floyd related things in person but I think you've got me beat. 

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20 hours ago, RussTCB said:

What a GREAT post. If I could like this post twice, I would. This is exactly the type of discussion I was hoping for when this thread got started! 

You mentioned a lot of the great folk influenced Floyd cut. I'd argue that A Pillow of Winds and Sam Tropez both belong in that pile too. 

I liked that you pointed out Roger having folk influence on a lot of his Floyd tracks, along with Pros & Cons. Personally, I think ATD gets included in this by way of Late Home Tonight and Watching TV. Is This The Life We Really Want has a couple of tracks with a folk influence as well, but I think the ATD tracks are stronger. 

If I were to come into the subject with little knowledge of Floyd, I would have assumed David was the one who pushed the folk influence. When you weigh things out as you've done and I added onto slightly, you see that it's actually Roger who brought that in and pushed it. 

Your post makes a strong for what many people seem to miss about Floyd. They're not a rock band. They're not a space rock band. They're not a psychedelic band. They're not a stoner band. They're just a band. A band that has made solid contributions to just about every other genre out there save for R&B. They don't just dip their toe into other genres either. They go all in and the results are often excellent. 

Lastly.... Green Is The Colour is probably the most under rated Floyd track there is. I have a stunningly good version on a vinyl bootleg where they do Green, then turn it into Careful With That Axe. It's amazing. 

Thank you for your kind words about my post. I love this stuff too, and theres so much to discuss when it comes to Pink Floyd!

Absolutely Pillow of Winds and San Tropez belong on the list, good call. Now That Im thinking about it again a few more tracks are coming to mind - Grandchester Meadows, Cirrus Minor, Julia Dream... prolly others too.

Yes, you called it! I totally forgot about Watching TV and Late Home Tonight. Im flat out ashamed that I forgot those! Especially Late Home Tonight. What an exquisite song. The Ballad of Juan De Menensez, from the Wall Live, too maybe? I might just have to finally dive into ITTLWRW.

Absolutely, Floyd do it all and do it well. :headbang:

20 hours ago, RussTCB said:

If I were to come into the subject with little knowledge of Floyd, I would have assumed David was the one who pushed the folk influence. When you weigh things out as you've done and I added onto slightly, you see that it's actually Roger who brought that in and pushed it. 

I would have thought that myself, lol. Because David has been quoted saying that in the early days he saw his role as bringing a bit more structure and musicality. Id say he always did bring a musicality and maybe sometimes structure, but when we really look at that early post Syd era they are both playing some very structured folk often times. While they all did a bit of Syd cloning, I think Wrights See Saw was the closest in many ways. And then as you say, they were equally great at all sorts of other musical forms.

I guess David was speaking to the more psychedelic jam stuff?

(Last night I was thinking of this English Folk Period thing and I developed a very loose theory...The way Floyd embrace tradition but are also clearly pushing against the establishment. I got thinking about how in a health liberal democracy these intergenerational conversations are not only embraced, but the system is designed to benefit from them, so long as all parties have their freedom. In Syd absence they were without direction, then we see them embrace tradition (English Folk music). They clearly feel safe and comfortable in this space. But from that place of tradition they attack the establishment - very unlike the 'tare it all down' ethos of bands like MC5! In my theory Pink Floyds folk period almost represent "peak liberal democracy" but I cant seem to put the thought to the page :lol:)

20 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Lastly.... Green Is The Colour is probably the most under rated Floyd track there is. I have a stunningly good version on a vinyl bootleg where they do Green, then turn it into Careful With That Axe. It's amazing. 

I have to hear this!!!!!!!! They seem like such different tracks. But I swear I can kinda 'get it.' Its astonishing how all these forms fit together so seamlessly in the mind of the Floyd!!

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12 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Oh wow, that's awesome. I've seen some amazing Floyd related things in person but I think you've got me beat. 

it was a major fluke 

good story! 

a client of mine - (who became my gf after) took me to the show after a lunch, it was in a private corporate box where i was doing some major networking 

nobody else knew floyd as i did, and the rumour mill started pumping saying gilmour was showing up, couldn't believe it when it finally happened both songs were amazing i wanted to cry

i have to say there are some touching moments of the wall and my personal favorites are vera and bring the boys back  home, outside the wall as well just brings it all together perfectly 

Edited by double talkin jive mfkr
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18 hours ago, soon said:

Thank you for your kind words about my post. I love this stuff too, and theres so much to discuss when it comes to Pink Floyd!

Absolutely Pillow of Winds and San Tropez belong on the list, good call. Now That Im thinking about it again a few more tracks are coming to mind - Grandchester Meadows, Cirrus Minor, Julia Dream... prolly others too.

Yes, you called it! I totally forgot about Watching TV and Late Home Tonight. Im flat out ashamed that I forgot those! Especially Late Home Tonight. What an exquisite song. The Ballad of Juan De Menensez, from the Wall Live, too maybe? I might just have to finally dive into ITTLWRW.

Absolutely, Floyd do it all and do it well. :headbang:

I would have thought that myself, lol. Because David has been quoted saying that in the early days he saw his role as bringing a bit more structure and musicality. Id say he always did bring a musicality and maybe sometimes structure, but when we really look at that early post Syd era they are both playing some very structured folk often times. While they all did a bit of Syd cloning, I think Wrights See Saw was the closest in many ways. And then as you say, they were equally great at all sorts of other musical forms.

I guess David was speaking to the more psychedelic jam stuff?

(Last night I was thinking of this English Folk Period thing and I developed a very loose theory...The way Floyd embrace tradition but are also clearly pushing against the establishment. I got thinking about how in a health liberal democracy these intergenerational conversations are not only embraced, but the system is designed to benefit from them, so long as all parties have their freedom. In Syd absence they were without direction, then we see them embrace tradition (English Folk music). They clearly feel safe and comfortable in this space. But from that place of tradition they attack the establishment - very unlike the 'tare it all down' ethos of bands like MC5! In my theory Pink Floyds folk period almost represent "peak liberal democracy" but I cant seem to put the thought to the page :lol:)

I have to hear this!!!!!!!! They seem like such different tracks. But I swear I can kinda 'get it.' Its astonishing how all these forms fit together so seamlessly in the mind of the Floyd!!

I can't post a link, but if you go to YouTube and type "Green Is The Colour Careful With That Axe" you'll find 4 or 5 recordings of them doing it that way. 

Another folk song from them is Free Four. What's funny about that particular track is it pretty much sums up all of Roger's future lyrics all in that one song lol. 

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10 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

it was a major fluke 

good story! 

a client of mine - (who became my gf after) took me to the show after a lunch, it was in a private corporate box where i was doing some major networking 

nobody else knew floyd as i did, and the rumour mill started pumping saying gilmour was showing up, couldn't believe it when it finally happened both songs were amazing i wanted to cry

i have to say there are some touching moments of the wall and my personal favorites are vera and bring the boys back  home, outside the wall as well just brings it all together perfectly 

That's awesome that it worked out for you to see that moment in person. 

I absolutely loved the staging of that tour from Roger. The section of Nobody's Home, Vera and Bring The Boys Back Home was stunning. My wife gets choked up STILL when she tells people about the footage that was running during Vera. 

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12 hours ago, RussTCB said:

That's awesome that it worked out for you to see that moment in person. 

I absolutely loved the staging of that tour from Roger. The section of Nobody's Home, Vera and Bring The Boys Back Home was stunning. My wife gets choked up STILL when she tells people about the footage that was running during Vera. 

yeah, it was surreal for sure the only other floyd moment i would think that tops that night would be any given night of the pulse tour to me the pulse album might be the best album of all time at least for my taste but i would argue it anyway

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9 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

yeah, it was surreal for sure the only other floyd moment i would think that tops that night would be any given night of the pulse tour to me the pulse album might be the best album of all time at least for my taste but i would argue it anyway

I saw The Division Bell tour (which is what Pulse is from) in Detroit on 07/14/1994. Then I went to see it again the next night on 07/15/1994. All of my friends said they didn't understand why I saw the same show two nights in a row. 

Turns out the second night was the first time they played the entire Dark Side of the Moon in 19 years. I was sitting in 4th row and couldn't believe it! 

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39 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I saw The Division Bell tour (which is what Pulse is from) in Detroit on 07/14/1994. Then I went to see it again the next night on 07/15/1994. All of my friends said they didn't understand why I saw the same show two nights in a row. 

Turns out the second night was the first time they played the entire Dark Side of the Moon in 19 years. I was sitting in 4th row and couldn't believe it! 

yeah my brother went to division bell told me he dropped acid for the one and only time and the helicopters going into the crowd etc 

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whats everyones deepest song they have with floyd 

very tough but for me the deepest one and not personal but just deep on an existential level is High Hopes - to me it encompasses and wraps up what was left in the floyd bank with melancholy and with some hope for what lies ahead post floyd 

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2 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

whats everyones deepest song they have with floyd 

very tough but for me the deepest one and not personal but just deep on an existential level is High Hopes - to me it encompasses and wraps up what was left in the floyd bank with melancholy and with some hope for what lies ahead post floyd 

Numner one with a bullet for me is Careful With That Axe, Eugene. Especially a live version. I don't know why, but listening to that song is damn near a religious experience for me at times. 

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7 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Numner one with a bullet for me is Careful With That Axe, Eugene. Especially a live version. I don't know why, but listening to that song is damn near a religious experience for me at times. 

don't know it will look it up later

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2 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

don't know it will look it up later

Oh....my dear lord. Here's the studio version from their offical channel, but make sure to look up a live version too:

 

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Impossible to choose. Gonna have to think about it, but still... impossible.

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I used to think it was "one of my tunes coming home", while it’s "one of my turns coming on". What a fan...

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11 hours ago, jamillos said:

I used to think it was "one of my tunes coming home", while it’s "one of my turns coming on". What a fan...

Not your fault, really. Waters has some off pronunciation here and again. It took me a long time to realize what he was actually saying in a lot of songs over the years. 

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Someone should've talked to Pink and had him shorten Another Brick In The Wall down to one song.

It would've gotten more radio play. 

I mean, 3 parts? Who has the time. 

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1 hour ago, Wagszilla said:

Someone should've talked to Pink and had him shorten Another Brick In The Wall down to one song.

It would've gotten more radio play. 

I mean, 3 parts? Who has the time. 

Someone said this shit at my house recently and I almost flipped a table lol. 

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I love this. Gilmour solo show with Rick Wright guesting for his track Breakthrough. To me its a great Pink Floyd moment, with other floyd collaborators also on this performance. Wish this had been on a Floyd album. If Im not mistaken this was among the material Rick brought forward around the same time as the first sessions that eventually went on to become DB and ER? Or, if not a floyd track, I wish that Rick would have sung it on his album, even though I like Seneads performance too.

I note that he changed some of the lyrics for this performance.

 

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On January 9, 2020 at 1:36 PM, double talkin jive mfkr said:

whats everyones deepest song they have with floyd 

very tough but for me the deepest one and not personal but just deep on an existential level is High Hopes - to me it encompasses and wraps up what was left in the floyd bank with melancholy and with some hope for what lies ahead post floyd 

High Hopes would top my list too. More of a Roger era guy though. Lately Paranoid Eyes is hitting me deep. It makes feelings of empathy well up inside me. Roger was already incredibly gifted at observing the drudgery of modernity and the human condition when he was like 23-24years old (not sure of his age tbh, lol), on Echoes (and definitely even before that). But now here he is in his 30s with plenty of miles behind him. His observations on the generations before him are still critical but it seems more like he's trying to explain their plight rather than dismiss them (which stands in contrast to his 'list songs' like Eclipse and Dogs). The sentiments of dispossession, the societal lies of the post war dream going unmet, is something he shares in with them.

The song and its arrangement is what Im here for. Just masterful, imho. And Rogers singing is pretty good too!

 

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On 1/18/2020 at 10:55 AM, soon said:

High Hopes would top my list too. More of a Roger era guy though. Lately Paranoid Eyes is hitting me deep. It makes feelings of empathy well up inside me. Roger was already incredibly gifted at observing the drudgery of modernity and the human condition when he was like 23-24years old (not sure of his age tbh, lol), on Echoes (and definitely even before that). But now here he is in his 30s with plenty of miles behind him. His observations on the generations before him are still critical but it seems more like he's trying to explain their plight rather than dismiss them (which stands in contrast to his 'list songs' like Eclipse and Dogs). The sentiments of dispossession, the societal lies of the post war dream going unmet, is something he shares in with them.

The song and its arrangement is what Im here for. Just masterful, imho. And Rogers singing is pretty good too!

 

I'd go so far as to say that Paranoid Eyes is probably the most under rated track on The Final Cut. 

It's been a few months since I listened to the album but just seeing this post makes me want to make sure I listen to that song very closely the next time I do. 

It's one of those songs that fully grabs my attention anyway, but everything that comes before it is so powerful that I sometimes don't focus on it as much as I should. 

I don't mind Rogers "list" style writing, but I absolutely love the more traditional lyric style of something like Paranoid Eyes. 

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23 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I'd go so far as to say that Paranoid Eyes is probably the most under rated track on The Final Cut. 

It's been a few months since I listened to the album but just seeing this post makes me want to make sure I listen to that song very closely the next time I do. 

It's one of those songs that fully grabs my attention anyway, but everything that comes before it is so powerful that I sometimes don't focus on it as much as I should. 

I don't mind Rogers "list" style writing, but I absolutely love the more traditional lyric style of something like Paranoid Eyes. 

Ive got the funniest anxiety about you giving it a close listen and just being like 'meh, wtf was soon talking about?' :lol:

Agreed about Paranoid Eyes being the most underrated track on there. Not Now John probably captures my attention the least - so imho a strange choice for a single. I dont skip it or anything though.

I got thinking about the Final Cut EP/ Video and I guess the tracks used for the videos were selected for the Falklands War narrative, but imho its an odd representation of the album as a whole. Id love to see how Paranoid Eyes would have been depicted in that video. 

I dont mind the 'list' songs either. Actually, singing along to them in a hazy basement with other greasy 14 year olds is likely what solidified my enduring love of Pink Floyd, lol. But yeah, when Rogers lyrics and affect are lent to a well written more traditional piece its just too good!

 

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i am very much not well versed in final cut, although it was part of the box set that came out in the 90s it was the most neglected CD of the bunch, may have listened to it once 

on another note a perhaps unpopular opinion is that another brick in the wall 3 kicks the shit out of the other 2 versions !!!

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23 hours ago, soon said:

Ive got the funniest anxiety about you giving it a close listen and just being like 'meh, wtf was soon talking about?' :lol:

Agreed about Paranoid Eyes being the most underrated track on there. Not Now John probably captures my attention the least - so imho a strange choice for a single. I dont skip it or anything though.

I got thinking about the Final Cut EP/ Video and I guess the tracks used for the videos were selected for the Falklands War narrative, but imho its an odd representation of the album as a whole. Id love to see how Paranoid Eyes would have been depicted in that video. 

I dont mind the 'list' songs either. Actually, singing along to them in a hazy basement with other greasy 14 year olds is likely what solidified my enduring love of Pink Floyd, lol. But yeah, when Rogers lyrics and affect are lent to a well written more traditional piece its just too good!

Funny thing about Not Now John; I have the 7" single for it which has the "radio edit". They changed out all the "fucks" for "stuff". So yes, you hear David, Roger AND the backup singers saying "Stuff all that!". It's really poorly punched in too, so it sounds even worse than it should. 

One bright point about the 7" is that it has The Hero's Return Part II which is not on the album. I'm sure it's available on YouTube, but it's near to have it on a 45. 

11 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i am very much not well versed in final cut, although it was part of the box set that came out in the 90s it was the most neglected CD of the bunch, may have listened to it once 

on another note a perhaps unpopular opinion is that another brick in the wall 3 kicks the shit out of the other 2 versions !!!

You really should give The Final Cut a closer listen. It's way better than most people give it credit for. David's solo on the title song is one of my favorite solos he's done. 

Also, you're 100% correct. Brick III is by far the best one. My ranking goes: III, I, II 

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